i got asked to do a job for some guy that is into 50's chevy cars. he has a mint frame off resto 51 chevy delux 2 door. he has built a 51 chevy elcamino. the cab and rear fenders (same piece) is 51 chevy sedan delivery. its a 2 door then the rear window is from some 50's chevy car, and the bed is custom made. all of the fabrication is finished. but the guy who welded it together used lap welds in the cab, roof, and window (the most work is here) theres some filler spread over the welds and most of the "truck" is in primer. its on a rotating car rotisserie, at his shop, 40 miles from my house. he wants me to finish the body work and get it into the best primer that i can buy. we dont have room at work for this car right now so i have to do the work at his shop. i have no clue what to charge for this. i will post some pictures when i get the digicam out of my toolbox at work. i cant post pictures of the whole car because its kinda top secret. it looks like an old ssr, kinda, but little (like ssr's should be) i know this is the most vague post ever but what would one pay for a shell of a 50's car to be smoothed out and primed. theres a few rust spots that i have to make patch panels for , but besides those its rust free. theres a few people that i can send pictures to to get a better idea if yall really need to see it. thanks, sean

So neither of you lose anything you have to charge by the hour. The hourly rate should be based on your skill level, how quickly you can do the work, and I would also take in consideration having to drive to his shop to do the work. Is he gonna supply all tools and materials? Is he gonna help? You have take a lot of variables into consideration before making a price, what is work like this going for in your area. I think you and he both will o.k. in the 30-$45 an hour range. Just remember only charge him the hours you work and don't drag the project out just to get more money, just take as long as you need to do a great job.

he wants a flat rate, thats the problem. i supply materials, at his shop. he has compressor and welder. the body man at work said 2200 or so. so if you had a custom built 51 chevy would you pay 2200 to get it into primer??

I'm not a big fan of flat rates anymore, I've lost so much in the past giving flatrates on restoration and paintjobs. It always takes longer than u figure for some reason or another. Sounds like what you're going to do should probally take around 60-70 hours. Just figure 70 at $30, That's $2100 then you got sandpaper, filler, wash thinner, dust masks, metal prep, prepsol, wipe down towels, epoxy and 2K primer. Your probally going to spend $900-$1200 on all those supplies so I'd just figure $1200 to be safe. So I would just tell the guy around $3300-$3500, if you do good work it's worth it. If you're doing this as a learning experience, obviously you can't charge as much. Good luck. BTW, no I would not pay anybody, they pay me. Krazy Kreation Customs, here's a pic of one of my paintjobs from a year ago on a '69 Chevy w/ '72 grille. Also another pic of a Del Sol we done a year and half ago.

heres some pictures of the brute of the work. i am going to have to use more filler than i ever would, but the metal work is already fnished. sorry for the choppy pics, i really cant show this thing until its done, yall understand.

"the message you have entered is too short...." :rolleyes:

one more pic

just a ballpark figure based on the photos, but I'd say you have at least 2 40 hour weeks ahead of you... add materials cost and you could easily ask $3000 if you do good work.... I would consider using lead instead of bondo where ever possible...

Sean, you say....."he wants a flat rate, thats the problem. i supply materials, at his shop. he has compressor and welder.............."

If he insists on not working by the hour on a job like that, you should tell him thanks but no thanks. The only way to do a job like that is BY THE HOUR.
It is an advantage to have the project at his place. He'll know the status anytime he wants and be able to have it done any way he wants, so you should charge accordingly. Looks like it may be a rust bucket in places, needing metal work on some structural areas.
I also wonder why you are supplying the materials??? Let him get his own materials. By this point in the project, he should know something about bodywork and the materials needed to do a proper job.

Sounds like he may not mind screwing someone to get his wonderful "top secret " car truck thing to a finished state..........sorry, it just reminds me of when I was a younger guy who was taken advantage of by people who wanted to get their stuff done, who didn't have the skills or did not want to get dirty. There was always something great in it for me, but in the end was never worth the time or effort used to do the work needed to get their projects done the way they wanted.

Get money for your time/effort, its the most useful thing.

Again Sean, if he won't work with you on an hourly basis, I'd tell him to have a nice day and walk.............good luck, eb

I have done these jobs all my life and I can tell you this, there is NO WAY I would do it on a flat rate! It is a "T&M" (time and materials) job PERIOD. There is no resto shop anywhere that would do that job flat rate, they would be nuts!

Now, I had a guy who would always do that to me, he wanted a price, period. So, I finally learned, I would figure out what it was and then double or triple it (depending on how big the job was) and lay it on him. The guy would pay it every time!

It was a 32 Ford three window coupe. He had some hidden hinges installed and the wood removed around the door jamb. The doors fit like crap and he wanted me to fix them. This is no paint or bondo, just in metal. He bugged me and bugged me wanting a PRICE, no surprizes. I finally said, $1,000.00 a door. He said, "get to work". I was floored, but you know what, it ended up being $1,500.00 anyway! I figured $800.00 or a grand total, but It I was way off. You just can't figure these projects flat rate!

I have a piece of a 56 Chevy truck door mounted to a piece of wood hanging in my garage from when I had my shop. This piece came from the window post on the door when I chopped the top on this truck about 1982. I gave him a flat rate on chopping the top. When all the dust died down I made about a dollar an hour, NO KIDDING. I made this "monument" to my stupidity and hung it the office of my shop. It saved my butt many times over the years. When I started thinking about taking in a job that I wasn't going to make money on, just one glance at that piece of the 56 Chevy door, I could say NO without hesitation. :)

Martin, I feel your pain! been ther bought the t-shirt,and ain't goin back!
I would only do it on an hourly rate-if that isn't good enough, pass on it!

MartinSR do you still do work? Shop? I'm in the SF Bay Area also and will be looking around for someone. Just need to add the info to my PDA.

thanks for the opinions, i'll let yall know what happens. i am still an "amature" at this stuff, kinda, and plenty of times i have lost money because i did something that i had never done before, so i did it cheaper. i did a door skin when i was 16 on an altima for 600 bucks, because i was a beginner at this body work stuff, and had never done anything more than fixed little dents and played with some primer. it came out perfect, but i prob made 20cents an hour. after that i tried not to get jipped, but then someone would come t me with something that i had never tried so i would charge less, then it would come out perfect. so lately i have been estimating atregular shop prices, i dont get as many side jobs, but when people say "have you ever done ------" i say "no, but i can" if i dothis job by the hour like yall say i will definately get the rght $ for my work. thanks for the advice

MartinSR do you still do work? Shop? I'm in the SF Bay Area also and will be looking around for someone. Just need to add the info to my PDA.

I work in a large collision shop now, I didn't even do my brothers truck for him, boy is that another story.

Like others have said hourly rate is the ONLY way to fly. Been burnt once before never again!!

A few things come to mind on this. Why is the guy that started the work NOT finishing the work??
Reason 1 the guy ran out of cash, Reason 2 guy is a PIA to work for.
IF he ran out the first time he can run out the second, and who you think will get the shaft on that deal. He has the car in HIS shop, he has ALL the leverage if he decides to bail out.

Even thou you are trying to learn thats NO reason to allow anyone to walk over you or take it in the shorts.

If you do go ahead and do this project by the hour, what I have done and suggest is set up a bank account for the project. Have both of you set up the account with BOTH names, both names needed to withdraw. Have him set up the account with say 4000, after that week you show him your hours and materials, he signs off on the withdraw. When it runs below 2000 he puts more in.
If he decides to pull it out he loses the cash in the account cause it takes TWO names to withdraw it. If at all times there is 2000 in the account its kinda an incentive NOT to lose interest. The reason I suggest this is because I got burnt towards the end. Guy lost interest in car and I didnt get my money for almost half my work. But its just my way

yeah, i need to find out why the guy who started it didnt finish it, but i'm thinking because he didnt have any body work skill, he was probably just a fabricator. i'll definately ask though. thanks

we agreed on time/materials. he pays me40/hour and i shw him reciepts of all materials i use as i use them. thanks for the help

Sean, if this is your first job like this you may not want to go this far right now, but you really should MAKE money on the materials as well.

I don't like the idea at all of showing the guy the receipts, it is like he doesn't trust you. I don't know if you offered that or he demanded it, but that is unheard of. You TELL him what materials you bought and you mark them up 20% at least.

There is NO way a man or shop can make money giving away profit. ANYTHING you touch you have to make money on, or is just isn't worth it.

There is an old joke on the subject.

There were two (enter ethnicity you want to insult :)) guys buying hay out in the valley for two dollars a bale, filling their truck and driving it back to the bay area and selling it for two dollars a bale. One day as they are going down the highway one of them says to the other, "we have to change something, we aren't making any money". The other guys says "your right, we need to get a bigger truck". :)

Sean, if you aren't going to make anything on the materials, you need a bigger truck to haul it. :)

yeah i told him i would show reciepts and he said "whatever is best for you, you're the one who knows what your doing, i dont know what the stuff is, just tell me how much you need. i went by the paint store today and we typed up a quote for paint stuff to let him know how much it will cost. i get it way way cheaper than list though, so even if i show reciepts i will mke money on supplies.

Sean, I start with Randall today. I will let ya know how it goes. Let me know about sunday too. Congrats on the new job.

welcome to the board buuuuuudy, finally decided to post after reading every post on the paint/body forum?

Welcome to the board from South Mississippi! You should post on the main page so we all know your here!