I'm at the point that I need to start using some body filler in spots and my experince in filler is limited. What would I need as far as basic tools and what brands are good. I like to buy tools that last but they don't have to the top shelf. I did try some bondo to night and it seemed to peel right off the metal so I can see I did something wrong so before I start spending on this I'd like some advice.

What filler should I used on bare metal?
Any particular applicators?
Spreaders and files/sand paper?
Sanders?
what do you prep the metal with so filler stays on?

I grind all of my spots to have filler with #40, you need to give it something to bite. I use plastic spreaders and Evercoat Rage filler. I also use Marsons glazing putty for the filling of small imperfections or a complete panel covering.

I typically use #40 or #36 for the initial cut to get the overall shape of the filler, then switch to #80, then to #150 to #180 beofre priming.

As far as tools, Hutchins makes the best sanders (I have the line/board sander) they also make a great DA as well.

Hope that helped.

Mike

Thanks,

can you put filler over self etching primer or does the primer have to be sanded off?

You need to sand off the primer, etch primer and filler don't work out.

A top end (not one of the cheapie retail jobs) rubber block from 3M (part number 05519) and the long rubber block by 3M (#05520) along with a "long board" (17" long) in either wood or aluminum with a wood handle are pretty hard to beat. I do 99% if my finish work using these three tools. As far as air tools, National Detroit 900 8" "hog" orbital sander is a must have if you plan on doing a lot of filler work (more than a few cars) and your budget allows. A good old National Detroit DAQ is a good work horse "DA" for feathering and rough filler work. A "finish sander" in 6" like a DynaBrade or Hutchins orbital "da" is worth it's weight in gold, again, they are not cheap. So if you plan on doing a few cars they may be worth the few hundred bucks to you.

The filler doesn't need too coarse of scratchs to bite. 80 grit on the metal is plenty. Even 120 will do the job. If your filler pulled up off the metal you may have started sanding too soon. If the filler isn't cured enough, it WILL peel up very easy. If the suface was dusty (blow it off good) or if you didn't press the filler down good onto the metal the first pass of the spreader this also could have been an issue.

Brian

It may have not have been cured enough. I went back later and none of it peeled off. it looked good till i primed it and then all the nasties showed up. I guess I need to work under better light.

I see a few different types of evercoat rage filler is one any better or for different use that the others.

Thanks for the info it should get me started.

All the RAGE labels are good. We use Rage Gold at the shop with six guys very happy with it.

By the way, make sure all products you use are 2K (use a hardener). The term "Glazing putty" is from an old product that is not 2K. I am sure Mike meant the newer "polyester putty" which is 2K and I just wanted to make that clear. Evercoats "Metal Glaze" or "Glaze coat" are very good polyester puttys that make an excellent "skim coat" over RAGE or can be used alone if the damage isn't too deep.

Brian

Thanks, That clears up the next few questions.

All the RAGE labels are good. We use Rage Gold at the shop with six guys very happy with it.

By the way, make sure all products you use are 2K (use a hardener). The term "Glazing putty" is from an old product that is not 2K. I am sure Mike meant the newer "polyester putty" which is 2K and I just wanted to make that clear.
Brian

Yes, Marsons is 2K. I stopped using 1 part material several years ago, I guess I just kept the old terminolgy :rolleyes:

Mike

So if I have this right you use something like evercoat rage for the first few rounds of filler and when you have it shaped and fine sanded you apply a glaze coat to cover sanding marks and what ever minor imperfections are left behind for the top coat.

What grit would you use on the Marsons glaze?

Here is a couple of articles I have writen on the subject of filler.
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7050
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7726

Here is the whole list of "Basics of Basics", there may be some other articles of use for you.
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=74560

You don't have to apply the polyester putty over a regular filler, you could simply finish off the regular filler in a fine paper like 120 or 180 and prime it. But if you read the articles you will learn a method I learned from one of my mentors back a number of years ago. The thought behind the method is simple. You rough the regular filler into shape using coarser paper than you would ever finsh it, or ever sand polyester putty with. This coarser paper CUTS the filler into shape MUCH better than a finer paper. You then after CUTTING the filler into shape you apply a skim coat of polyester putty much like you would apply a coat of primer, not expecting it to do much filling, just "finalizing" your filler work.

It works like a charm for me and I have taught it to many experianced bodymen who love the technique as well.

Brian

Thanks for the links they pretty much answer most of the questions i have at this point. Right now I'm experimenting on the unseen parts.

if you have a new fender do you have to skim coat it or can you just prime and paint?

I don't understand the question. If your fender has some sort of damage or flaw you need to repair, you "could" do that with filler in a "skim coat" form and then prime.

But you most certainly don't need to skim coat a part that is ok. It only needs priming and painting.

Brian

I was able to get hold of 2 dynabrade DA's one a 3" and one a 5".
can anyone tell me where to get 3" PSA discs for body work. I am hoping I didn't buy a odd ball sized DA, its a nice vacuum spirit model and a 2 hand 5" non vacuum model and got them fairly cheap, both for $200 and they are new.
I was able to get 5" PSA discs but no 3"

The five inch disc is not very common at all. I have seen it used in industrial and wood working but not very much at all in autobody. Finding five inch discs at your paint store is going to be pretty hard. You will find them in catalogs but you won't find them where you need to, at the store. Change the pad to a 6" (that is the only difference in the sander) and you will be much better off.

I have a little 1 and 2" detail da (actually an orbital sander being it doesn't have "dual action" of the "DA") that I get 2" velcro discs from 3M. They do have 3" but I only see them in the velcro "Hookit" discs.

Brian

it shouldn't be that hard to change the 5 to a 6 and the 3 to a velcro should it? and thanks for the help