Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
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Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
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Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
I just love this build, finally have my cabling and ECU in the shop...almost like opening Pandora’s box...installed my bulkhead today....
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Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
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Taking a break from wiring, I needed to do something for my throttle and the TV cable for the 700R4. One nice thing about this Holley throttle body is it has a spot specifically for the 700R4, no adapter plates to fix the pull ratio needed. However, the throttle body shifts the location of the throttle plate shafts relative to where they are in a carb, so a "regular" bracket like the Lokar one I had on my SBC won't work. Bummer. So I fab'd one on up.
Here it is ... 100% custom layout. Attachment 1735590 Installed and setup. Attachment 1735591 A comparison to the Lokar, showing the shift in cable locations relative to the throttle plate. Attachment 1735592 A 2nd shot showing the differences. Attachment 1735593 |
Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
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On to the vehicle wiring. This is where I'm currently at in the build. I've done a ton of layout options in my head, and am currently going down the path of running the wiring along the frame. This let's me take the whole bundle, route it down along the firewall to the frame, then send a branch line to the back and the rest to the front. One of the key reasons going this route was to keep all the wiring off the front clip so I could remove the front clip and still have a running truck. By front clip in this case, I mean hood and fenders, excluding the radiator support.
Always got to start with what looks like a disaster. Attachment 1735596 Initial routing. Attachment 1735597 Ok, now where I took a couple weeks delay. The vehicle power distribution. I had originally thought I could fit my power distribution over with the battery. And it technically does fit. But ... then I'd have very little access to the module to replace fuses/relays if they pop for some reason. By little access, meaning none without taking something apart. And by something I was looking at needing to take the battery out and possibly the battery tray or making an access point in the inner fender. Uh, both bad ideas. So I moved to the other side of the truck. Here's a shot showing some tabs I fab'd up to mount the newly fab'd power distribution center I'm working on at the moment. Man it's dirty in there. But that will be hidden, so it will get wiped down but that's it. Attachment 1735598 And here's the power distribution bolted in checking some fit and clearances on the back side. Still a few items to add which I'll do in the next couple days (like my coolant overflow tank) and a couple holes to drill for wires. Attachment 1735599 |
Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
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Let's dive into the power distribution module (PDM) a bit...
First, here's some "old school" relays and circuit breakers. These are "mini" relays and what is still included with most relay kits for fans etc. But, that's not what OEMs use anymore. They take up way too much space. Shown here on a piece of aluminum for reference. Attachment 1735601 Here's a modern upgrade using the current micro relays and mini fuses that have the same ratings as the larger stuff. In fact, this little box can fit 6 relay and 12 fuses/circuit breakers. This pic shows 3 30 amp circuit breakers and 6 relays as one layout possibility. Compare that to the above which is 4 relays and 4 fuses/circuit breakers. In fact, I can fit 2 of these little boxes and have room for up to 12 relays and 24 fuses. The are fully configurable so I could fit 30 fuses in one box if I wanted. I will note now, the ECU power does not run through here. It needs to be wired to the battery and not in a PDM. This provides the cleanest power for the ECU which needs the cleanest power it can get. So the ECU runs over to the battery through a MAXI fuse. I also am tying the vintage air 12V line in with the ECU as it needs clean power too since it's running digital logic just like the ECU. Attachment 1735602 Here's the backside of the PDM I'm building, showing 2 bus bars, one for 12 V and one for ground. Both will be wired directly to the battery. Ok, the 12v will go through a 200 amp fuse with the alternator. Obviously no wiring just yet, however, I did complete the layout tonight. With the 2 boxes, I have loads of free space for future needs. I'm currently planning 6 relays (3 fans, AC, Head lights i.e. low beam and high beam), 3 circuit breakers for the fans, and 8 fuses for additional circuits. I'll finish up the fab work on the panel and get some paint on it then wire it up. Attachment 1735603 |
Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
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Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
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Did have to end 2017 on a high note though... Picked up a new towpig for C10CJ. GMC 2500 HD Duramax 4x4. Shouldn't have any problems pulling C10CJ around to shows. And the hood scoop is actually functional!
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Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
L5P Duramax, G80 locking rear. 445 hp, 910 Lb ft...and zero known issues. Beautiful truck.
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Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
Chris where did you source the Littlefuse PDMs?
Waytek? Digikey? Yea....you should just give us a Parts list..... |
Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
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maybe a price list also Thank you |
Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
...it would be cooler if you drove your C10 to the show!
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Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
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Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
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Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
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Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
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Ok, back to seriousness. Here's the PDM parts list. Recall I order in bulk on the terminals and cable seals so there are way more there than needed for the PDM, but in actuality those are the mins from Waytek on that stuff. So if you bought what I bought that's what you'd pay and you'd have leftovers. I just pick up the fuses from the local auto parts store. Mini fuses or ATM is what they are called.
The PDM uses all metripack 280 series terminals, which is one reason I went with Littelfuse. That's a common item and the spacing is standard, so the relays, circuit breakers and fuses can all be bought at the local stores. Most pre-assembled PDMs are that way as well (using standard fuse sizes). Bussmann (Eaton company) does offer some nice pre-assembled PDMS, but in those cases, the relays are all setup for positive (12 V) trigger. ECUs prefer ground trigger to avoid the transient voltage spike that results from pulling current from a coil. The voltage spike backs up the positive feed, so if you switch with the ground you stay away from the spike for the most part. In my case, 4 of the 6 relays are ground switched. The other 2 are positive switched, but those are my headlights, so the spike just goes back to the battery which doesn't care and "absorbs" the spikes. Since I was building a custom PDM I went ahead and changed the headlights to relays but instead of re-doing the entire headlight circuit, I simply hooked the output of the headlight switch to the relay. IMPORTANT, when doing that, ensure you use a relay with a resistor otherwise you will pull way too much current! The parts list below is for relays with resistors. ECUs actually prefer a diode relay to really help dampen the transient voltage spike, but then you need to remember to put the resistor in the circuit yourself with the fuse (assuming the circuit isn't already current limited in some way). Not a big deal as Littelfuse sells resistors that fit in like fuses. But you can also just switch the ground side of the relay and all will be ok. The other nice thing about the Littelfuse unit is it is fully IP67 rated assuming you assemble everything correctly. That's the point of the cable seals in the list. All metro-pack and weather-pack terminals crimp in the cable seal. A TPA (included with the Littelfuse box) helps keep the terminals in place and acts like a strain relief. Basically that thing is built up just like you'd crimp a metro-pack connector. Which I did a video on that too linked down below. A link to PDMs on Waytek (I'm not sponsored by them): https://www.waytekwire.com/products/...ution-Modules/ All the item numbers are Waytek numbers. Where available the manufacturing part number is in the description. Attachment 1735788 And here's a little gem I found that I'll pass on. When you do wire braid or convoluted tubing, you generally wrap the branches in what Painless Performance calls "Self-vulcanizing tape" and then they subsequently sell it for a pretty penny (like $30 a roll). The stuff below is where Painless gets the stuff and you can see it is much cheaper. Waytek will let you buy just one, but I pick up 2 when I restock. Attachment 1735789 |
Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
Thanks Chris that saves a ton of thought and effort...really appreciated....
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Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
Thanks Chris!
From my professional past life as a Communication cable spilcer/supervisor I could have used a good hand like you! You do some nice work |
Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
I used the same tape on my loom! Got it from amazon though and it's about the same price (36ft roll here http://amzn.to/2EPji4Z). I have also used it to seal coax cables when I didn't use sealed connectors and several other things... works amazingly well :)
I'm going to have to re-read your info on relays, but quick question -- you mention using ground switched relays except for positive switched for the lights. Could you just use ground switched for everything instead, or is it more difficult to wire up or something? |
Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
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When I started digging in to the light circuit, it quickly got messy as the park lights feed through the headlight switch so you have to have 12V coming in meaning I'd need to replace the headlight switch with something different and still be able to trigger the park lights (or do a complete redo of all lights). I did seriously consider this as it isn't as hard as it sounds. The hardest part would be picking out a headlight switch. You then just drive the park lights off a relay in the cab that feeds the 12V and the headlight switch becomes a "dead" switch just switching grounds. I'm actually saving this for a future project where I integrate an arduino based micro controller to do things like auto headlights, delayed exit lighting, interior lighting, etc. Painless used to make a box that did this stuff but it was $500. I can get a 32 bit Teensy for like $25, build a box to put it in and then drive a bunch of micro relays to do the same thing and more. Probably be under $100 all said and done. That's a project for after I get this thing driving though, so I just gave you all the thought I've put in to it right now. ;) So when phase 1 is done, don't worry, there is a phase 1.5 behind that (bed/bed floor, possibly roll bar inside the cab), then phase 2 which is the interior with more fancy electronics (like bucket seats, in-dash nav and that gismo from above). Phase 2 is a couple years down the road at this point, well the major stuff anyway. :metal::metal: |
Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
Thanks for the explaination. I'm working on using an Arduino to control my air ride setup! It looks like I might switch to a raspberry pi though because I'd like to switch to Python now that things are getting complex... and auto headlights etc. are definitely on the radar after the air control is done.
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Re: C10CJ: A Pro-touring '71 Stepside on a No Limit Pro-C10 Chassis
Great build so far!!!!!! loving how it is turning out.
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