Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Looks great, Larry. Shackle flip and zero rate for the back? What will it have for tires the rest of the time?
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Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Thanks MTCK! Yeah, shackle flip for sure but it may need more than a zero rate. I might actually have to throw a lift block in there to make it sit level (I hate blocks but it is what it is). The plan is to do the shackle flip then bolt the tires on with the old axle still in place and let it on the ground to see how low it is compared to the front. From there I can determine if a zero rate block or a lift block will need to be used when I bolt the 14 bolt ff in. We’ll see!

The small tires on the aluminum wheels (the ones that were on the Burb when I got it) will be the main tires even though they will be quite small now. Once they get worn away I plan on using some type of 315/75R16 all-terrain tire on Desert Rat Raton wheels.

These are the wheels I plan to eventually get for it whenever I get some 315’s. Its going to be a while as I got higher priorities for it before a tire and wheel purcha$e. The K10 needs tires too so the Burb will have to wait a while.
http://www.desertrat.com/images_products/L_4368.jpg

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

i like those old school steel wheels on the front, white on white looks awesome on that suburban

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Behold! Finally got some work done to the Polar Bear that is post worthy.

Removing the rear spring shackle brackets. I find it easier to cut the rivet head in half then use an air hammer to knock off the rivet halves then beat the rivet on through the frame. Unfortunately, my air compressor was dying so removing these rivets still turned out to be an all-day event.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8176/8...385f60c2_b.jpg

ORD shackle flip brackets mounted and the old 9.5” semi-floating axle pitched in the iron pile.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8041/8...d1c96584_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8035/8...a755d389_b.jpg

As the 10.5" 14 bolt full-floater was going in. Learned something with the rear brake backing plates….do not always believe the AC Delco online parts catalog for “Vehicle List” to view which vehicles use the same part. The AC Delco catalog had me believing the 13 x 2 brake backing plates from the 9.5” semi-floater were compatible with 13 x 3.5 drums on a full-floater. Ah, nope! After finding that issue, I had to go scrounge up some 13 backing plates at the salvage yard for a full-floater. Funny thing is this axle had 13 x 3.5 brakes on it when I pruned it out of the donor truck but I stole them to bolt on my K10 and had planned to use the K10’s 11”s on the back of the burb until it dawned on me I would have a park brake issue being the 11” backing plates had the bolt on park brake cables while the Suburban requires the later style push in cables. The only way to make the park brake work correctly was to find full floater backing plates with the push in cable design (1984 and later). What a ha$$le that turned out to be! Actually, I would have had the same issue had I used the 13” brakes that were originally on this axle anyway as they were the early bolt on style. It is easier to find the correct backing plates to work with the Burbs park brake system than rework the entire park brake system on the Burb to the old style U-system. With it being a manual trans, a park brake is a must so it was worth the lost week of chasing parts!
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8170/8...cf20a641_b.jpg

All buckled up and ready for some tires
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8170/8...984be02a_b.jpg

One thing I need to redo is replace the drop pitman arm in exchange for a raised steering arm. I had a 2” drop pitman arm lying around that I thought would suffice, but no dice. It steers horrible……In fact, it barely turns left before the draglink smacks the leaf spring.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8040/8...08bf6904_b.jpg

Nice butt!
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8170/8...a3c977fe_b.jpg

To my surprise, it actually sits level and rides so much better even with the bias ply Super Swampers. Rear shackle flips make a huge different in ride. My buddy and I need to fabricate some rear bumper brackets next weekend to mount the rear step bumper. Even with a step up in tire size the change in gear ratio to 4:10 (from 3:42) did give the big bear a noticeable amount of oomph at the bottom end. The step up to 13 x 3.5 rear brake shoes/drums gave it a noticeable bump in brake power as well.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8182/8...7a61ff8b_b.jpg

That’s all for now. Next up is hanging the rear bumper then I need to get some tunes in this thing. Been driving it for a year without a radio.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

The Burb is coming along nicely, good on the gear ratio change, big truck for sure.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

I love the build!!! Paint runs and all lolz, ahh the memories...

That stuff happens all the time, but only the brave post it.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

I follow your progress and it looks great. I am working myself on my suburban between to much work.. Going to post pictures later on my own built thread.
I like the look of the white original wheels.
You have 13" x 3,5" brakes on the FF? Is that axel from a Crew Cab dually or single?
How is it working out with the proportion valve with a different brake size? Is it not a bigger brake cylinder also on 13 x 3,5 compared to 13 x 2,5?

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Thanks Chevak20!

Yes, those are 13 x 3.5 brakes. The axle is a ¾ ton 10.5” 14 bolt full-floater but the brake backing plates, shoes, wheel cylinders, hardware and drums are single rear wheel 1-ton pieces. Actually, the drums, shoes and hardware are all new from Napa....only the backing plates are used.

I did not change master cylinder or prop valve and it works great. Probably will convert it to hydroboost someday but for now vacuum powers these big brakes just fine. It stops on a dime now! I did this same swap to my dad’s K20 back in the early 90’s and I just did this same 13 x 3.5 brake swap to my K10 this past July. Unlike most people, I don’t buy into the rear disk brake swaps. I still prefer a big rear drum brakes. :smoke:

I thought I would be able to use the 11” brakes that I took off the K10 in July on this Suburban but no dice, as the park brake cable I would have needed doesn’t exist so I converted this donor axle for the Suburban back to 13’s. Confused? Me too :lol:

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

This is all good to know. I plan on swapping a 14 bolt FF into my burb one day and would like to do the 1 ton brakes as well.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Sexy!

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Do you know how much more that full floater weights than the semi?

Does it have a posi, what kind the eaton rev-lok?

My 81 k20 has the 14 bolt semi with 4.10s. I always thought id but in a Full floater in it.

Just put a pinion seal on the semi and changed the oil. It looked excelent inside and has a posi. Lot of heavy use pulling a concrete pump for years and all that heavy hose in the back, seemed to hold up ok.

Whats a good price on a 14 bolt FF with 4.10s? If I dont find a deal else where besides a junk yard

Should I look for a particular year axle to go right in my 81 k20 ?

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

If you find a 14FF that is in good useable condition, they are worth up to $200.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Not sure how much more a 14 bolt FF weights over a 14 bolt SF but it is considerably more, especially if running the 13 x 3.5 drums. The 14 bolt FF I used from my dad’s truck is open, no locker or limited slip.

Cost wise, around here 14 bolt FF range from $80 at a pick and pull yard where any axle is $80 regardless what axle it is (although they seldom have good stuff), up to $400 at other yards.

The best years to pirate an axle from is ’73-’87. The square body ’88-‘91 trucks with full floaters were 1 tons which the spring perches are wider than a ¾ ton so they are not a direct bolt in. Late model 14 bolt FF have a wider track width and just don’t look right in an older truck in my opinion plus they need perch work to bolt into an older truck as well.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

You do good work. I like what you've done with this truck.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Finally got around to mounting the rear bumper this weekend. Not a rear bumper most people would probably use but it is a factory GM pickup rear bumper and the price was right plus a rear step bumper makes it easier to crawl in and out of the back of this thing. This bumper also beats the heck out of the stock Suburban rear bumpers that wrap around the corners that are only good for caving in rear quarter panels with even the slightest of bumping. Also took the Q78 Super Swampers/white OEM wheel combo off for a while as I don’t want to wear them out just cruising it around town. For the time being I moved the well-worn 315 all terrains from the K10 onto the Suburban to run out the rest of the life on them.

All it needs are lights on top and a few crosses in the windows and it would look like an Ambulance! :lol:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8330/8...987b93c7_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8334/8...dfcc58d9_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8336/8...64919ebd_c.jpg

Planning to have the front driveshaft built and have the front windows tinted this week, then after that it is time to move efforts to the inside. I’ve been driving this thing for a year without a radio or 12 volt accessory power (Cig lighter is missing the complete power wire). If all goes well, a NV4500 5-speed will go in around Decemberish too.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Love what you have done so far with this burb Larry.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Looks good! 8.1L at the same time? Those factory step bumpers are good and sturdy if I recall correctly.
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Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

I can't stand stock bumpers from these years i feel they are the most useless bumpers i have ever attempted to stand on, i am not sure why it was chose but i do know newer bumpers fit quite nicely if you like the look of them

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Thanks Vectorit! This thing has come together surprisingly well and easy. Guess all of the good and bad experiences in building the K10 made this one a breeze……so far.

MTCK,

I would love to do an 8.1L at the same time as the NV4500 but my boss would probably have my head on a stick if I did that. NV4500 first then the 8.1L next year….unless this 5.7L drops dead. It does drink a lot of oil though so I am going to start feeding it used oil. Yeah, the factory step bumpers are pretty darn beefy. I got this one for $40 but I learned something on this project. Trucks and SUV’s (definitely Suburban’s) use different rear step bumpers. From the side, the bumper looks like it is set back a bit too far but from the top it fits perfectly. To make it fit more like a glove I would have had to cut about 2” off the lip of the bumper just below the rear doors. I don’t think I could have made that cut on such a long run to look good. Too long of a cut to do with a cut off wheel. I know some people won’t like the rear bumper but I like it. I like the price even better, $40 plus paint.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Nice Larry! :)

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

That is looking great! I can't wait to see the trans swap.

May have already answered this, but are your plans to take it on big expeditions like your truck? If so, we'll definitely expect a lot of pictures :lol:

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

:lol: Ah, we’ll see. The blue K10 is more equipped for long distance runs being it has a nice comfy place to eat and sleep on the back. The Sub is going to be more of a daily driver/day tripper rig although I have a lot of friends that live back East that would like to come along on the yearly weeklong desert excursions. Since the K10 is only a 2 seater, if someone wants to come out West and join us on one of these trips they can drive the Suburban and follow the K10 around. That said, who knows….one day you may see pictures of it sitting out in the bush alongside of the K10. We are working on plans to do the Mojave Rd in California in March of 2013 as well as Death Valley.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Larry, it is looking awesome! I like the paint job, and the lift made this truck look sweet. There's only one thing I'd change, just because it drives me nuts. :lol: The rear axle doesn't look centered in the wheel opening. I'm guessing that is from the shackle flip install. It did it to my Longhorn too.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

I think that is a Suburban thing.
My 68 has the same look without a shackle flip.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Hehe, it is far less noticeable now with the smaller 315’s and the tall skinny Q78’s Super Swampers taken off. I had another guy on Expo Portal tell me my springs were in backwards. :lol:

The shackle flip does swing the axle forward a tad where a small .5 to 1” offset zero rate would move it back a where it would be centered. At the moment the rear shaft is almost too short so I wouldn’t want to move the axle back just yet. I’ll wait to see what driveshaft work needs to be done when the NV4500 project gets underway then may add a zero rate to move the axle. I don’t even notice it and even far less noticeable in person.

I agree, with vectorit that this might just be a Suburban thing as even the pre-lift pictures look like the axle is forward a tad.

Funny though that nobody noticed stuff that really matters like the front axle not having the caster shims installed yet and the front tires layed down like road grader tires when they are turned all the way left or right. Installing caster shims this weekend.:lol:

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

I'm in. Great build! I'm thinking about moving to Colorado but that yuppie Texas Atv statement has me thinking it could be a little commercial for me.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Had the week off for the Christmas Holiday and got the NV4500 swaperoo done! A NV4500 is far from a sports car transmission but compared to the SM465 it certainly is! Plus OVERDRIVE is such a beautiful thing! It is amazing how just a transmission alone can change the personality of a vehicle.

The dirty end of the SM465/NP241 before teardown
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8357/8...765f5ed6_c.jpg

At this point, I had some major work ahead of me to rework for floor for the new shifter location, which is 6” further back on the NV4500
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8500/8...6b02821b_c.jpg

465 vs. NV4500 comparo. They are right on the money in length. The drive shafts were a direct fit as well as the trans cross member. I was even able to reuse the trans mount.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8219/8...119bcf1e_c.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8076/8...f105059c_c.jpg

New Centerforce clutch installed
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8217/8...5b7f9032_c.jpg

AA Bell housing installed
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8224/8...d9307727_c.jpg

Getting ready to go to town! Aligned the trans jack at 20 degrees to match the angle of the engine for quicker poke'n action :lol:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8354/8...85bb3a16_c.jpg

Reused the original 465 32-spline NP241 transfercase after my buddy and I took it apart too see how things looked in there.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8223/8...44305eb8_c.jpg

The really nice thing about a 241 tcase is even a little wirey guy and pick them up to stab by hand. Can’t say that for the 205 in the K10
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8079/8...87ffc15c_c.jpg

Then spent half day reworking the trans tunnel. Sorting through these details is where the big time gets burnt up.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8358/8...98997139_c.jpg

Hacked up this trans tunnel to build the new one. Originally I had hoped to just swap on an automatic trans tunnel then cut in a new hole for the NV4500 shifter like I did on the K10. Ah, nope! The floor on ‘85ish and later trucks do not bolt off and they are shaped different than the old removeable tunnels too.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8072/8...fe43bc9e_c.jpg

Almost final dealeo
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8223/8...85748139_c.jpg

No NV4500 swap is complete until you dump in $72 worth of super juice
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8504/8...68dc4192_c.jpg

Before tear down. SM465 transmission
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8503/8...2b494d05_c.jpg

After with the NV4500! Used the leftover 205 boot and bezel from the K10 when it got a NV4500 and twin stick 205. :smoke:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8217/8...33c17a02_c.jpg

It took all day yesterday to install the ACC carpet. Damn Burbs have a 1000 holes to cut through the carpet and jute. What a pita! Replaced the carpet from barn doors to firewall. I bet I went through 20 razer blades trimming this dang carpet! That jute is dense!
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8356/8...4dd04c6f_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8352/8...9b44aea2_c.jpg

Same knob I used on the K10 a few years ago when it got a NV4500. For some reason, I knew it was a good idea to buy two knobs at that time!
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5056/5...be5c6e62_z.jpg

I put about 30 miles on it tonight and have to run some errands in Canon City tomorrow so that should be a good shake down run for it. So far so good….no leaks, vibrations, rattles, etc.

I'll say this, a NV4500 swap in a '85 or later square is one heck of a lot easier and cheaper than doing one in a 70's truck!

Now, it just needs more power! Might have to get busy and do something about that ;)

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Nice work, looks so factory.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Great job.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Nice swap!

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Wow nice Burb,that's low miles for that burb,My 90 Burb 4x4 had 224,000 when I got it and when I sold it it had 264,000,and still running strong.That was one of the better vehicles I owned.I used it to get my 70 Burb 4x4 4 hr trip one way,by myself I might add.It was sooo fun.I'd tell you the story but it would take tooooo long...KOOL BURB....

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Great Job! My buddy just got a 2wd 4500 for his 88 crew and is setting to do the swap. I will link him this thread. Any tips are appreciated as we will probably start within the week. I just did a th400/np203 to 4l80e/np205 swap. But this manual stuff will be a fresh area for me.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Great job on swap and really cool burb!! Let me know if you want to get rid of the original 4spd shifter handle and boot ( if its not ripped ). Thx!
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Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Man! This thing is looking awesome... and making me miss CO as usual!

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Thanks guys!

1968vetL-71,

The boot and shift lever for the old SM465 are already spoken for by my buddy Zoomad75.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Very clean job, I like it

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Looks great Larry, but there is a little bit of misinformation here:



How is this the dirty end! Well, maybe compared to the "after" scrubbed and buffed transfer case it was. All kidding aside, I'm digging how the shifters look stock and awesome at the same time.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Larry, could you have moved the NP241 Tcase shifter to the rear enough to reuse the original plastic housing and boot?

I'm considering the same swap for my '85 with 465/208 and want to retain the original Tcase shifter boot. I was hoping to move the Tcase shifter to the rear since it has a one rod linkage and would be easy to shorten.

BTW, Great write up!

Thanks,
Keith

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Thanks! I was pretty lucky as this burb was already pretty clean and leak free when I got it in 2011.

Not really because if the tcase shifter assembly is moved back any further it starts to go down on the rear slope of the trans tunnel. The original big plastic tcase shifter bezel is just too big to fit nicely when using a late model NV4500 shift boot. I might have been able to use the original 241 shifter boot but I didn’t want to destroy the entire plastic bezel to remove the boot when I had the 205 boot and bezel handy.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Seems like GM trucks' tranny any t-case shift boots always got the ugly stick treatment. They still look better than some for sure. I never could find a boot that looked perfect in a square body. I think the one you used is the best GM has done. Too bad S-10's didn't use a mini version!
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