Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

After reading through Blackbear’s website I do like how they handle their mail order tunes. They may get time consuming but their logic seems to deliver a close to “live” tune as one can get through the mail. I’m not really interested in leaving the Suburban at some hoons shop 2 hours away for them to beat on while they do a live tune. If I could hook up with one of the traveling circus tuners that follow the Street Rod show circuit would be another option but our street rod nationals don’t happen until August. We’ll see!

Well the #3 radiator got here in usable shape but the petcock is bent at the tank....errr! (Spectra does a crappy job at packing their radiators). The missing air induction bits finally got here yesterday as well so I’ll get that stuff installed and start chasing after the tuning. The tuning hassle and expense BS I did not plan on but I am confident it will be worth it in the end. The K10's 8.1L runs circles around my stock 2001 Silverado 8.1L and I expect the Suburban's 8.1L to run circles around the K10. We'll see!

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Um dude, the Street Rod Nationals is in June, not August. I don't remember any tuners there, but then again I wasn't looking for one last year either.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Nice rig! I'll have to go back through and read it all but I didn't want to lose it

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Little update on the Polar Bear. I got the trans reinstalled (had to remove it to fix a rear main seal leak plus the NV4500 needed a 5th gear synchro), did a IAC relearn and reset the fuel trims to accommodate the new injectors she runs a lot better…..and that hot rod lope went away which I am so glad. It still has some little fine ECM tuning to do as runs a bit fuzzy in cold start open loop but other than that, she runs like a scalded dog at wide open throttle. The RayLar cam definitely gave it a lot more top end although at the expense of a little low end grunt loss but I’ll know for sure once the tuning is all dialed in. So far, I’m really happy the way it turned out and it will only get better once the ECM tuning is finalized. It’s pretty funny how such a big truck can flat out scream when you poke it in the neck

Outside of the fine ECM tuning the only other thing left is to have A/C lines built but I probably won’t have time to tackle that until May or June sometime.

Here is how it looks as of right now
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8789/...68b94bd6_z.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7692/...5c66fe0a_z.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8804/...ab8b857f_z.jpg

And a family photo
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8690/...47b0e095_z.jpg


Little update on the K10 too. Since the Polar Bear stole its tires and wheel last summer it was time to repay the K10 with a new set before upcoming annual Desert Trip. I bought the same exact wheels but I went with Goodyear Duratracs this time instead of another set of Fierce Attitude tires. Nothing wrong with the Fierce Attitude, it’s just the Duratracs turns out to be cheaper this go around. 315/75R16 Load Range E

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8714/...1bcfe2de_z.jpg

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I was getting fed up with the interior paint peeling off of the center console so I had an upholstery guy cover the entire console in the closest matching vinyl he could find that matches the seat arm rests. Turns out nice! Having it covered in vinyl also stopped the lid from squeaking and itching.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7680/...deb96e40_z.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7685/...2dbb3302_z.jpg

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Outstanding Larry, looks great!

I got my 2002 8.1L dually on the road this weekend, it surprised me how quick that big beast can pickup speed.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Killer. I was wondering how the trans reinstall went. How's it going into 5th now? I need to get over there and go for a ride in the bear and see how it runs!

FYI: got a box of goodies coming from Carbondale, CO. Might be a little heavy.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Cool! Goodies from Carbondale are always fun to unpack! You are not going to believe this, but there was absolutely no change in 5th gear. It is no easier or harder to shift into 5th than it was before…..it’s exactly the same. I am not even joking. I haven’t had the heart to tell Harlan yet….and I not pulling that sumbish out again anytime soon so I’ll just keep living with it for another few years. At least the big pig runs better now albeit still needs some ECM tuning attention. I drove it all over town today. It hauls ASS! :lol:

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Such a clean engine install looks like it came factory.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

if you ever decide to get out of the truck game, call me. i love this burb!

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

What the hell is going on with that trans? I'm lost on this one. I'll let you break it to Harlan. I'll do some research at work and see if there is something we all missed.

Can't wait to check out the beast. Can't wait to get the goodies from Carbondale either!

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Thanks! Congrats on your new beast

Thanks!

They'll probably have to cut me in half to bury half of me in the K10 and the other half in the Suburban :lol: but I'll keep you in mind.

I dunno either dude. Right now it is kind of a pisser and a huge waste of money. I even tried the burnish thing Dean was talking about by forcing it into 5th over and over and over. 4th to 5th, 4th to 5th, 4th to 5th, 4th to 5th, 4th to 5th, 4th to 5th….. It will only go in with high speed. It has the same odd feeling the old F body cars did where it made you skip shift. That is how this feels when it rejects 5th. It’s like pushing up against a wall…just won’t go until you speed up. The K10 will go into 5th at 20 MPH if you want. I’ll say this though, the trans in the Burb is as quiet as a church mouse which I can’t say that for the K10 although I attribute much of the noise in the K10 to the 205.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

It looks nice and I'm glad you got it running better and you can drive it and enjoy it. The K10 still looks nice. The console lid looks great too. My brother has the duratracs on his dually. His only complaint is the life expectancy isn't what they claim. Other than that, he loves them.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

i would bet a fifty on the fact that the life expectancy has more trouble with his driving than anything...

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Larry,
what are you running for front springs and dampers in the polar bear and the pickup? And how do you like each of them?

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

I bet you’re right. My bro-in-law is working in the oil boom up industry in ND and runs Duratracs on his 2010 RAM 3500 crew cab long bed. He claims his last set of dirtytracs lasted 52,000 miles on a heavy Cummins truck albeit the last few months they were definitely onion skins. 50K on a heavy diesel truck running 50% dirt roads is pretty good in my opinion. He is anal about rotations so that probably helps.

I was happy (and surprised) how well the Fierce Attitudes have lasted given the fact the K10 has a Detroit locker in the back and eats tires like crazy. Those tires made one trip to California, two trips to Arizona and 2 trips around Utah and they still look practically like new. I would guess they have close to 10K on them. Very minimal wear and zero cupping.


Well, it’s quite funny actually. Both are running the ORD front HD shackles, ORD sway bar disconnects, el cheapo Superlift 6” lift shocks but the K10 has a set of Superlift 6” soft ride springs while the Burb has a set of 4” Rancho springs that were actually on the K10 when I bought it back in 1996. The funny thing is they are about the same height even though one has 4” springs and the other has 6” springs. The K10 with the 6” Superlift springs rides so much better and flexes like crazy. The burb is pretty stiff and doesn’t flex very well although the newly added weight of the 8.1L did help the ride quality on the burb quite a bit. Also helped with the wondering issue at road speed it has had since I installed the lift springs. The K10 is in dire need of new shocks badly. On the desert trips these shock heat up within the first 20 minutes of off-roading then are like not having shocks at all after that but I blew my whad on the Burb’s engine swap and new tires for the K10 so new shocks for the K10 won’t happen for a while.

Of the two I like the Superlift Softride springs the best. Not sure about shocks but I’ll have a better idea once I start shopping for a set for the K10 later this summer. The Superlift shocks are just nice because they are cheap and work fine for the lighter burb but with the weight of the K10 and type of off-roading it sees, they are not enough shock.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Larry can you tell me exactly which plug you used for the ESC hole in the firewall?

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Here you go. 9600K527

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Thanks a bunch Larry. Order a few of them.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Larry, sorry to but in here. I joined the forum just to gather info on your 78. Id like to pretty much mimic it. Hats off to you, sir for an excellent truck. I'm building a 79. Did you change the lift from before the fender flares to after? Besides the zero raTe? It looks taller. I'm shooting for the set up you have without the flares. Thanks in advance.
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Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Welcome Hammy!

Well, the Suburban has had the same lift springs since it got lifted. What may make the heights look different are the tires as I’ve posted pictures of it with 4 different tires and wheels, 3 of which have been since it was lifted. The front springs on the Suburban are the old springs that used to be on my K10 from when I bought it in 1996 up until around 2005 or so.

The blue K10 height has changed a few times in the course of 19 years of ownership of pictures floating around. It used to have the 4” springs that are on the Burb now (Rancho’s I think) then I installed Superlift 6” Softrides about 10 years ago. The flares were on the truck then. Oddly enough, the K10 did not increase any height going from 4” Rancho’s to 6” Superlift Softrides but it did grow another 1” when it was treated to a Dana 60 front axle swap a few years ago. I did have to add a 1” zero rate to the back of the K10 to make it set level again after the Dana 60 swap.

Hope that answers your question.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Thank you. I have a picture of it sitting the way I like but don't know how to post it. I'm hoping to figure it out so I can maybe get specifics from you. I am planning the 8.1 swap also. Thank you for your time.
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Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

I just love rigs that have lots of mods that are so cleanly done that the average person doesn't even notice them. But we're not average around here & do notice! I can only imagine the hours of planning & labor that has gone into both your builds. Much respect to you for 2 super nice rides!!!

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Larry, is there any way I could pm you please? I don't want to fill up your burb thread, but I'm dying to get a few more answers from you on the k10.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Wow! Thanks for the kind words :)

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Little update on the Polar Bear…. Now that work travel and vacations have passed I finally had time to run it up to a Dyno Tuner in Colorado Springs to sort out the ECM tuning to accommodate the RayLar cam. I tell ya, what a difference having a live dyno tune done by someone that knows what they’re doing makes. The big bear runs sooooo much better now. No more cam lope either! She idles smooth like a Cadillac.

The dyno results came in at 301HP/386 torque at the wheels. Not too shabby considering the original TBI 5.7L probably laid down around 110-130 HP to the ground and this shop claims most Jeeps that come through their shop rolling on 35” tires with LS engines are putting down barely 280 lb ft of torque to the ground. He also claims the 4x4 drivetrain and tire loss is around 25 to 30% so with that, I was pretty happy with 301/386. Next project is to get busy making the A/C lines now that the weather is heating up.

For best audio pleasure use earphones and a second set of earphones up your nose to smell the exhaust
https://youtu.be/Qn1ys5u42aE?t=29s


https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8849/1...2824c0d3_b.jpg

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

One day soon planning an 8.1 I'm sure I'll ask for some guidance.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Glad to hear ya got her dialed in! That torque curve is a 'beaut.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Hey Larry, which shift cover are you running on the PB? Round or square shift tower? I just spoke with a guy who rebuild them. He says the round tower covers are prone to letting the shift forks drag a little.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Both the K10 and Suburban have the second gen NV4500 with the square removable shift towers.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Got a little annoyance thing address on the Burb last night. Since the NV4500 swap the clutch “feeling” has been a moving target. I find myself adjusting the clutch every few weeks and was getting pretty tired of it. Normally there aren’t any adjustments with a hydraulic clutch but with the Advance Adapters NV4500 bell/slave bracket there is. Anyway, I treated it to a new slave, M/C and hose as well has gone to much larger hydraulic reservoir. What a difference this all made! I’ll be able to put more miles on it later this week but it already feels 100% better. See if I can do some speed shifting now! :lol:

Tiny OEM reservoir. I just never felt these little reservoirs were up to the job
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/314/17...0c20d37b_c.jpg

Tilton reservoir mounted to a bracket I made that bolts to the bracket master cylinder and hydroboost hose bracket. I actually used a TBI 7.4L MAP bracket for this. Hey, it fit almost perfect! Now I want to do the same to the K10.
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Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Larry I hate to bug you with too many questions, but youre the only guy I know that will probably have the answers. I have a 2002 8.1 that is going in my 88 R30. I do have to pass emission here in Boulder County. I talked to Air Care COlorado about the swap and all they could tell me is I have to have all the emissions equipment the vehicle came with for that year.The vehicle would get a waiver and have to pass for that years standards. Being that I am going to have a stock computer to do emissions with and another with the howell tune, it should pass with flying colors. This engine should have an EGR on it, but the block off plate on it sure looks like a factory unit to me. My question is, how would anyone tell if it was a 2006 or a 2002? I will install cats on it, but not sure if I should do EGR even though it has a factory looking block off plate.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Sounds like a cool project. Well, there really isn’t any way to determine the year of the engine as they are not stamped anywhere on the physical engine that I have found. I’ve heard what some people are doing in CA is providing the CARB coach with the VIN from the donor vehicle. That is mainly in CA, not sure what CO will require. Luckily we don’t have any emissions in Pueblo County. Regarding the EGR block off plate, there is a very good reason it looks “factory”… because it is. Only 2001-2003 L18’s had EGR. 2004-2010 were not equipped with EGR.

Here is an excerpt from the GM Powertrain 2004 Model Year L18 Summary regarding the removal of the EGR:

EXHAUST GAS RECIRCULATION (EGR) ELIMINATED
The EGR control valve and plumbing have been removed from all Vortec 8100s. The EGR system was used to recycle some exhaust gas back into the intake stream to cool combustion and reduce oxides of nitrogen (NOx) emissions. Data from development and durability test vehicles indicates that software refinements in the P59 PCM, and the engine’s overall efficiency, allow the Vortec 8100 to meet all 2004 North American exhaust emissions standards without EGR. Removing EGR reduces cost, complexity and potential warranty claims, improving both assembly efficiency and reliability.

The EGR block off plate is GM part number 12559976 while the gasket is 12580673. Just remove the EGR and add the plate and gasket. The studs and nuts can be retained.

Not sure if you ran across THIS thread but it is a great resource on all things 8.1L related. There is also a very good group on Facebook dedicated to 8.1L swappers. The page is called “8.1L Info Swap Classifieds”. Tell Ed, Larry sent you.

Good luck with your project.

Larry that is where my confusion starts. My 8.1 is a 2002. But this block off plate looks factory. I saw the truck it came out of. Did the 3500 dually have different factory emissions equipment than say a 2500 truck/suburban? I have read and read that thread word for word. That's what stuck me on the 8.1. I have a complete L29 I was planning on using until I read that thread and the one where the guy argued the dart block and merlin head 10k motor would run better than a stock L18.
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Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

I’m sorry, I thought you wanted to remove the EGR and install the plate. My bad. They all had EGR up until 2004 that I know of. I work for Workhorse/Navistar where we used couple hundred thousand 8.1L’s in our chassis from 2001 to 2010, which were of the heavier GVWR range of engines. Ours had EGR from 2001-2003. I suspect someone either did an engine swap on the donor truck or just removed it all together. What color are the valve covers? 2002 should have black textured valve covers. 2004 and later were bare aluminum. What about the exhaust manifold? Is the EGR port in the exhaust manifold cast over or does it look like someone plugged it?

I personally wouldn’t worry about it as you would need the EGR exhaust manifold which won’t fit your square body frame anyway.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

My valve covers are black. I am hoping the main air car facility employs people of the same mind set as the one here in longmont. They look for the basics and throw it on the dyno. Just finished up our 86 K10 after a fire rebuild and I just ran some vacuum lines around the intake and not one of them were connected to anything. Hoping thats the outcome when this truck is running. Thanks for the help Larry.

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Larry do you have to run a spacer between the throttle body and manifold when you use the L29 throttle body?

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Yep, otherwise the geometry of the cable won't pull the throttle plate all the way open.

Awesome. Thanks a ton Larry. When I get it done I will take a cruise to pueblo so you can critique it!
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Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Sounds good!

Re: Polar Bear Suburban
 

Larry can you tell me if these are the correct part numbers for mounting bolts for the G-van/workhorse brackets? I have searched and I can't seem to find the length of these part numbers. I am shocked at the difference in size compared to the truck brackets.
Here is what I came up with

5X 11516367
4X 11516360
2X 11517115 (bolts for alternator)

Blake just sent me his parts list and he has the same numbers. Just double checking now.