'63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

This is my first time posting any type of build thread so please be patient. I've learned so much from the members on this forum without anyone asking anything in return except pictures.... so that said here we go.
I bought this truck in 2008 from a guy in Oregon. Who said he was the 2nd owner. As I drove it back to the Bay Area, I promised the 396 that if it got me home that one day I would put an overdrive in it. I ended up getting towed home from Redding but I'm still keeping my promise. Enter the NV4500.
My '63 was an Oakland built K15 that may or may not have come with a small block and 4 speed. I say small block because it uses the small block motor mounts on the sides. There is now a 396 in its place and as far as I know, the mounts have not been moved. When I bought the truck in it also had a floor shifted TH400 of questionable durability. It also has an HEI with no firewall clearance issues or dents. Out front I installed the serpentine drive from a '97 454 with the reverse rotation water pump. Theres about 2" from the factory fan to the radiator. Main reason that I mention this is that I have heard alot of talk about moving the engine forward.

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

I bought the transmission back in October from a guy off of C.L. I believe it to be out of a '94 c3500. Its came with a stock bellhousing, clutch and complete hydraulic clutch pedal, master and slave set up. The guy I bought it from said he had a shop look at it and it was given a clean bill of health before he installed it in his Blazer. He said it ran perfect no grinds - no popouts.
As soon as the last Christmas guest left, I began pulling out the old TH400 with the intent of a three day turnaround. I didn't take pics at the time BC I was in a huge hurry. Working on youre back on fairly steep driveway in between rain storms has a way of doing that to you. So Dec. 30th I finished bleeding the clutch for the 4th time and I took her for a ride. First thing I noticed was the incredibly short, positive throw of the 4500. The second thing was that my 2-3 shift was grinding EVERY time. I did say that he told me it was perfect right? I checked the clutch release point a few more times, made absolutely sure that I had the correct transmission fluid (because I had been warned not to use the wrong one) and then it dawned on me... When I bought it, I did at least open the inspection cover just to take a look and distinctly remember the strong gear oil smell that came out of it. When I put the synthetic stuff in, no such smell. I'm guessing that the P.O. put regular gear oil in and hosed the syncros. From what I hear, it doesn't take long. I figure that I'm pulling it out to do the syncs anyway so I figure I'll take pics in hopes of helping some of the members here that are doing their swaps.
I'll start with what it looks like installed and go backwards. Hereit is in 1st and 2nd gears. There's about 3" to the AC unit and a little over 1" to the front of the seat.
Enjoy the pics.. Chris

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Now that is a sweet old truck!

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

I bought a replacement clutch master BC the one I had was leaking and I was stalling while trying to figure out wher to put it. I ended up putting it farther to the drivers side of the brake booster and the pushrod lined up with a hole that was already in the pedal arm. I ground down the end of an old brake pushrod (so that it fit the new master), gave it a very slight bend and installed it. I could have really used on of Captainfab's cool brackets here! The clutch release point is about 1/3 of the way off the floor and has a good feel to it.

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

I had one of the kids help me bleed the slave, which, if you're not paying close attention (like I wasn't) can drain the little master quite quickly, making it necessary to start all over again :( The preformed clutch line/tubewas plenty long enoughand had small clamps that allowed it to be secured to the bellhousing bolts. The preformed bends did make it a little aggravating a few times though.
Hey John, I thought you may like this shot I took to show the clearance between the front DS and the slave. It's just over 4" to contact. I don't think that the front of my truck has that much travel anyway. I think it will be fine.

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Here's the new driveshaft (halfshaft?) that mates the original T221 to the NV. 12-1/2" to be exact. The guy who built it said he didn't want to reuse the old one due to it having some pretty bad welds. Interestingly the new shaft is actually 1" longer than the one for the TH400. I'll try toadd some side by side pics later.

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Here's the home made transmission jack waiting to lower the transmission. I highly recommend taking the stub shifter out before installing and removing this trans. Just makes it a little easier. I did strap the trans down to the 6x12 just to be safe. I also jerried up a trans brake (BC the driveway is about a 20-25 deg. slope). Don't laugh it worked!

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

I did have to lay the NV on it's side to get it out from under the truck. This is where a lift and a real transmission jack would have come in handy. The 20$ per quart oil sure comes out WAY faster than old gear oil used to! Hopefully it cleans up easier. I can't wait to try and put this thing back in LOL;). BTW I was trying to lay it on it's side on the jack and roll it out. It decided it wanted to lay on the ground. There wasn't much arguing. It weighs over 200lbs.

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Here it is on the workbench draining the rest of the synthetic stuff. I think it left about a quart on the driveway already. I ordered a manual from Quad4x4.com so that I can see if this is going to be a DIY repair or if I have to take it in. I'll try to take more pics of the underneath of the truck while the trans is out.

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Thanks. Just trying to give it a few upgrades and keep it "old" at the same time.

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Here's the hydraulic line attached to the bellhousing bolts. The clutch is a standard replacement 12-1/4" kit from Oreilly's. While it says Sachs on the boxes, the parts were all stamped Valeo. The flywheel is for a '69 396. The clutch kit came with a pilot bearing but I opted for a bronze bushing as I had heard of some issues with the needle bearings.
The second pic is of the trans hump and what I had to do to it in order to get the trans in. That was before I had learned that the stub shifter comes out :(. It was butchered by the P.O. anyway. As soon as it's running again, fixing the tunnel is one of the first things on the list!

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Here's the old and new DS side by side. The welds on the new one are WAY cleaner than the original. Spicer Joints. The guy does killer fast work and is affordable. He had it done 2 hours after I dropped it off.
Another pic on the bench. Damn thing's heavy!

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Ok. So I couldn't wait for the manual to get here Tuesday! I pulled the shifter cover and one of the inspection covers. Guess I better wait for the book. I have no idea what I'm looking at let alone what to be looking for. The gears in this thing are pretty massive! After looking at the gears though, they don't apear to be very worn or have any strange wear marks or chips that I can see. I have no idea yet if I can even see or inspect the syncros while it's still together. Should know more on Tuesday.

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

First off, awesome truck!
I look forward to seeing the progress of this "journey".

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Have to agree with everyone else, that is an awesome truck - I really like that body style in the 4wd flavor!

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

agree, nice truck! great build as i was thinking of doing the same to my 61k10. thanks for the build.

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Some of that synthetic fluid leaked out of my 4500 onto the driveway last week. It penetrated the concrete and my ZEP concrete cleaner wouldn't even touch it. It beaded up and ran off like water on a duck. It must be some slippery stuff:lol:

My fluid was clear however, but it was still new (less than 200 miles).

Good thread.

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Really cool swap. That is the beauty of divorced transfercases, you can easily swap just about any transmission combination in there with ease. That looks like an early NV4500 with the nice low granny gear too! Nice work and sweet truck!

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Thanks for all the compliments. This is my third. I started with a '62, then a
'64 and now the '63. I like this one the best so far. Maybe because this is the only one that I've been able to get running and roadworthy too!

Hey Jack you've got some pretty cool trucks yourself! Love that bodystyle too. Wish I could have a Chevy "preserve" where I could keep all the ones I like. It's a sickness I think.

61K10 - My kid brother is down in Roseville not too far. Love that truck of yours too. There used to be a guy around here with a '60 3/4t fleet BBW but I think the uppity neighbors either ran him out or he got rid of the truck. no appreciation for the "patina".

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

I threw the kitchen sink at it as soon as I got it moved. Foamy Engine Brite, Castrol Oil Eater and then some old school regular Tide (not that HE stuff either!) It cleaned up pretty well but it's also been dark every time I've had a chance to look. Funny you mention yours was clear. Mine was clear going in but black coming out. ..Less than 5 miles. Looks like I flushed out the old syncro material I guess. I think I may have to find a cheaper flushing oil! LOL

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Hey Larry, First off I'd like to personally thank you for all of the super detailed posts on your swap. Your truck to me is the armageddon truck and the trips you take with it are awesome! If I ever get some time off, a trip like those would be my ideal vacation! I'd also like to blame youre making it look easy which lit a fire under my*ss to do this swap! ;) In all seriousness though, I was on the fence between a 4L80E and the NV. It was your thread that made gave me much of the info I needed to even attempt this swap.
The guy I got it from said it was out of a '95 but it has a build date on the tag of 10/29/92 and yes it does have the lower 1st gear. That gear is really low. Starting out in 2nd seemed comfortable for the few miles that I did get to drive it. The short shift throw is what's really impressive. I grew up with sm420's, 465's, a T19 (I think) and even a Clark 5 spd. The NV shifts like a race car compared to anything I'd ever known.
As far as the divorced set up goes, I've heard some people say that it's just another set of U joints to worry about. I don't worry about it too much as I try to keep an eye on that stuff and usually things don't get too out of shape before I fix them. I too like the setup for the flexibilty it has and the easier driveshaft angles.
I picked up a divorced 205 after hearing that the T221's were prone to burning up. While not as strong as the 205, the 221 has held up real well since I got the truck. The 205 is just sitting for now. Someday.
Thanks for the kind words and the great reading material. Hopefully the manual comes tomorrow so I can start trying to get it back on the road!

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

So my manual showed up from quad4x4 yesterday. It seems detailed enough that Im confident that I can pull this job off. Upon looking closer and with the book in hand, it does look as if the third gear syncros are hosed as well as the third gear syncro teeth (meaning a whole new third gear) and the 3-4 syncro ring. The manual says that the two most common causes for 3-4 syncro failure are; a. wrong or dirty fluid or b. excessive mainshaft endplay. I was able to check endplay without completely disasembling the unit and it seems within the specs. :)
After thinking about what SunSoaked said about the condition of his fluid, the gear oil smell that I first noticed, the color of the fluid after I drained it and all the black "silt" in the bottom of the trans, I'm inclined to think that it was just the wrong fluid used in the past sometime. Which is the best bad news I could get right now.
At the moment, I'm collecting the tools needed to do the dissasembly / reassembly and may even make a couple of the puller collets as I really have to try to not spend alot of $ where I don't need to. I stopped reading the required special tool list when I hit about 700 bucks. So far I picked up a floor press off of C.L. today for 80$ and ordered a bearing splitter / puller set which started out at 140 + tax and ended up at 90 (with some price matching) including tax and shipping. I figure I can use the stuff again when it comes time to do axle bearings and seals on the wifes Yukon.
Untill its completely apart, Im really not going to know the full extent of the damage but at first look, I may be into this for around 275 + tools if Im lucky. Im still fairly p.o.'d at the guy who sold it to me for not being honest but I figure I've got to let that go. At least I'm learning more about something that I'd never otherwise have a chance to learn about.
I tried taking pics of the syncros but the camera couldn't focus in on the small teeth that are messed up. I'll try again while dissasembling and may have a better shot. I would like to post pics of the tools that work and hopefully save some money over the "specialty tools" in hopes of saving someone else a couple of bucks too. ;)

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

The first pic of the inside of the tranny dude is the mainshaft assembly and the 2nd is the counter shaft just below it , the NV series of transmissions are very easy to rebuild ONCE you have most of the special tools lol remember also to make sure you put loctite on that 5th gear retaining nut if and when you get it off to rebuild it, if not your gonna be in a world of pain later on when all of a sudden you lose 5th gear.

If you need help with it ive rebuilt a couple of those trannys and am currently building another for my 57 chevy snow wheeling rig, shoot some questions and pics of anything that stumps you and I might be able to give you a hand.

cheers
Nick

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Thanks Nick. Im slowly putting together the tools which now includes the 1-1/2" socket for getting the yoke off of the back. Now I just need the time to start breaking it down. Id love to see a pic of that '57. I had one back in the day. It was 1 ton Napco with a utility bed. That had a Clark 5 spd in it. Thanks for the offer, I may have to take you up on it if I get stuck on the NV. Thanks again, Chris
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Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Looking good man! I love your truck and I'm glad to see its getting a little overdrive lovin'!

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Thanks Jason. Its killin me to look at that OD sittin on the workbench and not in the truck. Just tryin to find the time to get to it. Hey whats that in your avatar? Doin a frame off? I know youve got pics up here. Send a link! Chris
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Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Yup, doing a frame off. Unfortunately my budget didn't allow for an NV4500 like I wanted... :P
My build thread is in my signature below.

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Iv'e been wanting to see pixs of your truck,Me LIKES very much,KOOL truck..

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Ill get some more soon. Just took the trans apart and took a bunch of pics. Been real busy with my teenage daughters antics lately and its been cutting into my truck time. Boy I wish they were as easy to figure out as these old trucks!!!
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Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Ok, So I removed the rear yoke, input shaft and mainshaft as the manual showed. I can see where it could have been easier to buy the special tools, but I'm kind of a shade tree anyway and used to making things work. So far, the bearing separator and a little ingenuity has worked out great.

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Here's the mainshaft on the stool. This bugger is heavy if you ever have to take one out. The manual says that if it won't "roll out" of the case after the input shaft, rear mainshaft bearing retainer and 4th gear syncros have been removed, that you must break the rear countershaft race and remove the rollers. I was able to get the race out without damage which let the countershaft move off to the side allowing the assembled mainshaft to "roll out". The second and third pics are of the third gear syncro and the gear on the side of third gear which is welded on. It looks like the gear on the side of the third gear is a little worn as the syncro has been rubbing against it. I was really hoping to not have to buy a new gear:(. There's also a pic of the 80$ Craigslist press which I haven't had a reason to use yet. Lastly, I shot a text to the guy who sold me the trans asking if he remembered me. The guy got back to me when he thought I'd be looking for more parts. When I told him that the "perfect working" trans he sold me had a perfectly wasted syncro..... wait for it... no response. I figured as much. I should have known he was a little punk. Oh well, this transmission will be right when it's done!

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

I also just received an old 465 - np205 combo that I had sitting at my brother's place up by Sac. I was thinking of using the bellhousing off of that and converting it to a hydraulic so I could get rid of the low hanging slave cyl. thats on the one currently in the truck. Now I've heard that there is a size difference in the bearing retainers of the 465 and the 4500. I read somewhere of someone having turned down the input bearing retainer on the 4500 and using the older bellhousing. Anyone have any thoughts or experience on this? Is the bolt pattern the same on the transmissions?

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

I just found out that you had this thread over here. Thanks for starting this thread and all the info and pics so far. Hopefully I won't have any issues with my NV4500. But if I do, this thread will help.

It is my understanding that the NV4500 has a different bolt pattern in addition to the larger front bearing retainer. That is as compared to the SM465.

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Hey John, Yeah I've got another thread as well in Engine and Drivetrain but that one may be a little shorter. I would have put it here but was afraid that it was getting off topic.

I guess I will keep the bellhousing after all if the earlier one won't fit. The slave setup isn't in the way, but I like the idea of just kinda cleaning things up if I could while I have the trans out already. I think I will sell my TH400 and the SM465-205 combos to help offset the cost of the syncros and possibly now bearings for the 4500 at this point.

BTW, I found that the 465 has a PTO on it that used to operate the Braden winch on my '64. I think it woud be a cool addition to the 4500. Does anyone know if the PTO's are interchangeable?

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

After doing some research, I did find ONE line in a thread stating that in '95 the NV4500 went to a different bolt pattern making it not compatible with the earlier bellhousings. Does this mean that the trans that I have (casting date of '92) may bolt up and I may only have to get around the input shaft retainer issue? I'm trying to get over to my Dad's place tonight to pick up the 465 and take some measurements. Just hoping someone here would know so I don't have to go through work all day today thinking about this. Nothing worse than crawling around in a rat infested attic on a Saturday with truck on the brain! Haha. The suspense is killing me! LOL.

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

That's how I found out about this thread.......



I just did a little more research, and you may be correct on the bolt pattern. I must have misunderstood what I read. The bellhousing that AA sells is listed for '96 and up GM or '93 and up Dodge NV4500.

I found another thread with a reference to the bolt pattern and input bearing retainer size. It sounds like the '92-'95 GM NV4500 will bolt right up to a standard GM bellhousing that has the 5-1/8" center bore. That is what would be bolted to your SM465.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=415769

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Hey Captain, I did some more research too and now I'm really not sure. I was trying to get the measurements for the 465 BH as I haven't been able to pick mine up yet. The early NV trans is 10.07 cl to cl on the top and 10.394 cl to cl on the bottom. From top to bottom, 4.865 cl to cl. I couldn't find the measurements for Saginaw-Muncie online. Ill wait until I get the 465 BH to measure and post back. If It does fit, it could save alot of people some $ in the future. As far as the other thread, I haven't had any replies so I think it's a judgement call for me. I'm just going to keep the bearings that it has in it for now and replace the syncros with genuine NV stuff. This truck is a work / DD truck and seldom pulls more than 10K. I think the imported stuff should be fine for now. I was looking on Quad4x4's site and they even sell the imported stuff for their "less demanding" customers. I guess I'm one of those people at this point.

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

I did some more research today, and according to Advance Adapters, none of the NV4500's will bolt to a standard, GM bellhousing. The '92-'94's have their own bolt pattern, and the '95 and up is different again, but the same as the '93 and up Dodge NV4500. The '92-'95's have the 5.125" diameter register on the bearing retainer, whereas the '96 and up have a larger register diameter of 5.60".

I do have several standard GM bellhousings, I just didn't get around to measuring the bolt pattern on one yet.

Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Well I finally picked up the 465 last night and Captain you are right. Just some quick measuring shows that the two BH's are different. On the bright side though, I did score a cool old Spicer PTO off of the 465. Ive got to call a few PTO suppliers to see if I can adapt it to the 4500. Im going to try and take the mainshaft apart tonight so I can order the right parts and start putting this beast together again!
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Re: '63 K NV4500 removal / reverse build thread
 

Update on the 4500...I've been able to take the mainshaft apart down to third gear. I'm going to have to make a puller collet(?) in order to remove the third gear itself which was wasted by the syncro. I've ordered a complete kevlar faced syncro set, a new third gear, the 3-4 syncro ring and and some small parts. They should be here Monday and hopefully the reassembly pics will start rolling in. I never understood the kevlar lined syncros that everyone was talking about until I took it apart. The part where the kevlar facing is reminds me of a motorcycle clutch surface. The friction that the faces provide are what help keep the gears syncronized giving smoother shifts. Use the wrong oil, friction goes away and so does the smooth shifting. I'll get pics later if the camera will allow. I also found out that the PTO from the 465 will not interchange with the 4500:(. I'd have to find an input gear for it and I think the PTO has long been obsolete. I don't think it is worth the money to put a newer PTO on just to say I have one.