70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

been lurking for years since my uncle died and i got his c10 and c20 pickups in various states of disrepair.
i've never owned a chevy before but had a 58 1 ton flat bed in the family growing up and helped my younger brother with his 58 apache stepside build so i respect the old iron.
first i put the c10 body on the c20 chassis and later got a k10 frame which started the frame off snowball. i rebuilt 4.10 k20 axles to put under it(78 10 bolt and 72 d60) and painted the truck. i need to go back and replace the rockers since the build quality has stepped up a whole lot recently but oh well.

i finally got the 6.0l/nv4500 swap kicked into gear by ordering a new 2002 upgraded nv4500 from midwesttrans.com with a new bell and dirty larry's henstooth his nv4500 thread is plagued by. sunsoaked led me to a brand new round pattern 205 case which unfortunately won't be available much longer since quad 4x4 is buying all them up to sell back to us for too much $$.
i bought a parts 2000 2500 with a 6.0 for 500$ with 200,000 miles on it so i'll need to get a fresher one at some point.

edit:mission statement- i plan on using her as a tow haul rig and don't plan at the moment to lift,boost,horsepower, or bling her up. things could change when its done but for now i'm interested in utilitarian and functional.

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

the few pics i still have
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...011_133154.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...008_181337.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...003_074313.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...603_193907.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...603_193819.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...603_193758.jpg

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

i got new 2015 ls3 camaro manifolds for 130$ shipped off ebay and some cheap adjustable 3/8" mount plates to get the motor in there. will probably run the 2000 rad if its an easy swap so the oil cooler and steam line will still work.
at first i was thinking of just dumping the 100 miles of wiring/big fuse block in there with a few leads to make it work but now i think i'll follow the lt1 instructions on minimizing it to the essentials.
speaking of wiring do you guys think i should put a speed sensor adapter (from dakota digital i think) on the 205 speedo drive for the cpu or is it even a good idea to try and get it tuned to run without one?
keep in mind i plan to haul/tow heavy stuff almost exclusively so i want the setup/tune on the safe side.
i'll take pics of goodies as they show up.

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

since the frames 1/2ton i'll need to upgrade at least the rear springs to get any work out of her.
i have the rear springs from the 2000 2500 chebby donor and tentative plans are getting late model brackets that can be made to fit(i saw a yukon with a similar frame height) or making my own.then aquiring a 14 bolt or maybe a later model 2500hd disc brake axle for the back that won't crap out under heavy loads.

any input on this idea would be great.

also thinking of adapting a later front sway bar and brackets like a few guys here have done for stability.

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

since my beds already chopped up for saddle tanks and i welded up the filler hole on my cab i thought i'de refurbish the tanks and drop in some late model pump/sender combo with a weld in collar and maybe a switching valve from a 90's ford?

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

oh and thanks to everybody i stole ideas from over the past few years!

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

first of the swap parts to trickle in
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._110912187.jpg
3/8" steel off fleabay,nice and beefy.i was going to make some but with the time/energy and cost of hardware these weren't much more.

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

egr block off plate by ict engineering,fit just fine.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._123218100.jpg

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

i steam cleaned the old 6.0l today after fixing some wires wood rats ate in my steam cleaners control board, and started on drilling out the 4 exhaust bolts that were broken when i got it. should get the 2015 camaro exhaust manifolds tomorrow so hopefully i'll have the motor resealed and ready to put in the engine bay with the nv4500 when it shows up on the 29th.

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

I'm liking the plans you have so far. Can't wait to see more of this build. Keep up the good work.

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

thanks man, at this point i think the truck has plans of its own!

a little something came early!
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._125418154.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...315337_HDR.jpg

new old stock 2002 nv4500 with updated mainshaft and 5th retainer,plus an iron tailhousing.trans,new gm bellhousing,2gallons of synth,stub,shifter,clutch set and slave for about 2700$ shipped to cali. good deal and chris at midwesttrans.com was nice to deal with and cut a discount on the smaller stuff.

i'm thinking of using an#3 adapters on the clutch hydraulics and an#3 hose to join them. still not sure which clutch master to use(gm or wilwood?) and where/how to mount it?i'll have to dig some more into who actually got good pedal feel and a firewall that doesn't bow out and crack in time. any thoughts?

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

found some poor quality pics on an old phone. i was going to slap some paint on the old girl and drive her with a whooped 350 when this happened:metal:
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...g-page-001.jpg
500$ parts truck that had been wrecked into a bank and pass door won't open from excavator kiss

and i found this locally
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...g-page-001.jpg

then my friend showed up with his badass bypass compressor and sandblaster to shoot 800 pounds of sand on the frame and bed!
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...g-page-001.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...g-page-001.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...g-page-001.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...g-page-001.jpg
gotta hate that california rust! no holes in bed!

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

some more paint and assembly pics
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...-page-0011.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...g-page-001.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...g-page-001.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...g-page-001.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...g-page-001.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...g-page-001.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...g-page-001.jpg

i used a big oak tree and my winch to swap cabs,talk about shade tree mechanic!

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

more nos parts!
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._110457869.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._110518010.jpg

new bare case from gearedfather on pirate

i've got a short 32 spline conversion kit coming from ord to swap the guts from my 10 spline case over.

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

ok so just a little bling from lmc
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...534243_HDR.jpg

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

2010-2015 camaro manifolds fit great
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._180854584.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._180844520.jpg

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

my 2000 truck oil pan not so well though. the sump is very close to the 10 bolt front diff on the stops and the factory crossmember will need a whole lot of work to fit. any idea which pan might be better?

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

so i ordered this oil pan for 150$ shipped http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Pe...ad0657&vxp=mtr
it seems to be the h3 pan with a different name. a little shorter with a big clearance out of the pass side sump that will work with the 10 bolt and its larger yoke(bigger u joint and more webbing on diff than the early d44).damn good price considering napa wants 50$ for just an oil pan gasket.

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

picked up this 4.10 geared 1977 14 bolt for 300$
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._071945790.jpg

pulled the tailhousing off the nv4500 for clearancing to fit the 205 and found this 5th gear retainer.look familiar to anyone? pros/cons?
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._173757391.jpg

a pic of the motors first test fit for the hell of it. couple notches in the crossmember had the mounts almost close enough to bolt down but the pans sitting on the crossmember. new pan ought to let me keep most of the crossmember.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...529360_HDR.jpg

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

i've got my franken tcase almost together, should happen today.

my junkyard flywheel is resurfaced too and looks very good.ring gear is in great shape and no cracks or heat issues on friction surface prior to surfacing.

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

finished tcase except for input bearing retainer bolts and paint.also ordered a driven gear sleeve/seal to head off that particular oil leak.

i think the retainer bolts are 5/16 by 1 1/4" or 1 1/8" with a flanged reduced size head. i'll have to look around for some unless somebody has a set taking up space?

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...441238_HDR.jpg

oil pan showed up too. fedex dropped by at 2:30am and chucked it out before speeding off :rolleyes: you can see the step that will give the diff a lot more room.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._095240923.jpg

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

i made a good start on a tcase shifter bracket.pretty solid and no flex during shifting though i think i'll add a third mount point connecting near the pivot so the bracket won't flex at all when the shifter is pressed sideways.

with the motor forward one inch the pivot point and tcase are only back 3/4" from stock. should play nice with the seats and dash.the 70 tcase shifter clears the trans shifter too.

in case anyone was wondering about lengths i measured front of bell to rear of trans adapter with a straight edge for my nv4500 and sm465 and got 26-7/8" for the nv and 25-1/8" for the sm. 1-3/4" difference
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._171428602.jpg

oh and i didn't notice i had an NP 4500 not an nv:jest: until now
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._181247571.jpg

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

Very nice start. Can't wait to see more.

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

final version of the tcase shift bracket with a grade 8 nut welded to the back for the pivot bolt and a blank boss on the tailhousing drilled and tapped for the third tab. very solid now.time to get the combo under the truck and modify the trans crossmember!
oh and the tailhousing clearance info i used came from dirty larrys nv4500 swap thread. thanks for showing me why i won't use advanced adapters stuff for this swap!don't remember offhand where the franken tcase stuff came from but its out there.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._182658079.jpg

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

built a spacer so i can use the tough stock trans mounts with the crossmember in the stock location. tacked and ready to weld in pic.its 4-1/4" tall.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._205532754.jpg

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

nice build... Did you consider a 2-4" lift and cleared the pan...

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

thanks, i'm trying to build something that makes me drive it rather than the toyota:chevy:.i just skipped over some of your build,54 pages! i've always liked the 327 too.

i did want to run the truck pan but when you mix in keeping most of the stock crossmember with a 10 bolt that has larger yoke/u-joint and webbing than a d44,plus stockish height so pulling 10,000+ lbs isn't scary on mountain roads and i went for the 5 quart job. i try to justify it by planning to run the oil cooler and a big oil filter to keep some oil capacity.

when its done a lift and tires might be in the future later though.

todays mishaps-
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...527118_HDR.jpg
better pic of bracket,hopefully its not so stiff it causes trouble with the tailhousing?sturdy though.

and the 14bff steam cleaned and brackets gone. a buddy just gave me some 3/4t chevy 63"s left over from a toyota crawler project i helped him build so now i need to decide if i should use them instead of the newer 2500 springs before i can mount this hunk of iron?
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._190332553.jpg

and i need to research the easiest way to do a pinion seal on an otherwise leak free axle.

can i pull the 5 pinion support bolts to remove the pinion assembly, or does the carrier need to come out so i can use an inch pound wrench for final pinion bearing preload when tightening the pinion nut to spec?

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

on my 12 bolt I just had to remove the yoke, replace seal and install yoke with new nut (nut has a pinch in it to keep it tight). Never had to open the cover...

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

if your pinion is shimmed rather than using a crush sleeve theres nothing wrong with torqueing the nut to spec and moving on so long as the bearings are good. you can even shim a crush sleeve to reuse it but you need to crush it to the right preload again.

with this axle being an unknown i want to set the bearing preload to spec for used bearings at the very least and check the backlash. regearing ford, and toyota axles don't give me any particulars on this axle,i'll have to look up the specs and procedures for service on these beasts.

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

so i found out i should be able to just unbolt the 14bolts pinion support to pull the whole assembly to check preload. and the crush sleeve in these are supposed to be so stout it shouldn't be much trouble torquing the pinion nut tight enough without increasing bearing preload past spec.

heres a pic of the russel -3an fitting and hose for the clutch slave,i wonder if theres a rubber grommet to cover that huge hole in the bellhousing?i guess its time to get serious about clutch master cyl type and configuration.info out there is pretty vague,hopefully i'll figure something out in the first couple tries.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._122143622.jpg

i finally got the drivetrain details finished and its bolted into the truck for good(hopefully).time to mod the trans hump and get out the rad support so i can brainstorm the cooling setup.

i'm thinking i'll get all the systems together and sheetmetal hung, then tackle wiring so routing and wire length will be simple and only done once.

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

finished the trans hump and got the 2000 model throttle cable to work.i drilled an 11/16 hole in the firewall and it snapped right in. and used the 71-72 cable pedal assembly. i cut the plastic pedal arm stop off the cable and slid the 71-72 stop on the end so it would work with the 71-72 arm. also tweeked the arm so the pedal would be off the floor at full throttle.surprisingly easy to adapt!

also i bent a lip down around the tunnel openings like factory to make it stiffer.some vise grips did the job fine.you can see a little bit of the puke yellow color the truck used to be on the patch panels. the 524 red orange is much nicer(in my opinion).
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._140839059.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._165459312.jpg

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

i haven't done much to the truck in the last few days besides buy a body/bed/rad sup. mount and hardware kit from gmcpauls and fiddle with the rad support and 1970/2000 model radiators. i'm leaning towards having a great local rad shop put smaller inlet/outlet's on the 1970 style 4 row to work with the 6.0l since i want to keep the mechanical fan and the factory fan shroud should work with a little tweeking. i guess i just got lucky with engine placement on that one.it also has a boss on the pass side tank i can use a barb fitting in for the steam line.

should be ordering a clutch master soon.

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

played with the stock rad setup some more.the guy i talked to at the rad shop said i could get a custom radiator for a few hundred dollars instead of messing with modifying my old radiator. i was able to get the 6.0l hoses onto the stock inlet/outlet and i think i'll do some looking at parts stores to see what hoses i can come up with to make this work before i get a new radiator.

the fan will work too if i space out the shroud with a welded collar of some kind. maybe theres a deeper shroud out there for the gmc v6 or a newer chevy thats what im looking for too?
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...602194_HDR.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._153208224.jpg

also did some pedal ratio and throw measurements on the stock clutch pedal with a bare floor and a 3/4" thick spacer under the pedal to compensate for sound deadener and floor mat in future.

pedal is 14" long from center of pad to pivot

6 to 1 ratio is 2-1/3" down from the pivot and gives 1-3/8" throw

5 to 1 ratio is 2-4/5" down ,1-5/8" throw

3.5 to 1 ratio is 4" down, 2-1/4" throw

had a friend measure his stock 2002 2500hd setup for me but he's lazy so i take these numbers with a grain of salt

24" pedal length

6.4 to 1 pedal ratio, rod is 3-3/4" down from the pivot,3-1/4" stroke.

looking under the dash theres room to move the pivot up a bit above the hanger and extend the pedal by the same amount if i need to for extra leverage.

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

i'll run hydroboost at a later date but the one from my donor trucks leaking everywhere and a 1/2ton booster line was 5$ at a junkyard and fits great.just had to pull the plug from the back of the intake and install.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._185232239.jpg

also got the pump fitting and pressure valve from a 70 k10 while i was at the yard so i can use stock k20 power steering lines and have stock steering feel(i hope).the valves miked out the same and it all bolted right into the 2000 pump.i've got to say i like the interchangeability of chevy parts!
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...743293_HDR.jpg

i'm thinking i'll run some hard line under the fan to the auto trans cooler ports on the rad for the engine oil cooler and put some barb fittings in the cut 6.0l rubber cooler lines to join it.

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

i was able to get stock p/s lines to work with some bending,especially at the pump end.you can see where i plugged the second return line for hydroboost for now until i get a rebuilt hydroboost unit.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._193137587.jpg

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

Coming together nicely- keep up the good work!

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

thanks! any advise or commentary is welcome guys i'de be happy to discuss opinions on tech or build direction.i much prefer that to "look at my truck aren't i great",even if we don't agree!:lol:

so i took a gamble and bought a clutch master gm#19183066 off ebay supposedly for 94-95 c2500 trucks(going off the ebay fitment guide) 18mm bore and 1.5" stroke. also 2 bolt flange for easier mounting than the 2000 master.its not plastic or aluminum either and being a gm part might allow easier replacement in the future. also the line points down where i want it and uses the russell adapter to the 4ft long -3an line that i have without another adapter stacked on that.i think a 3ft or slightly shorter clutch line will be perfect once the inner fenders are in and i can route it perfectly.

i wound up mounting the pushrod 2.5" down from the pivot on the pedal since it gave me around 1-1/2" stroke of the pushrod and drilled the corresponding holes in the firewall to mount the master with the pushrod level. also cut and extended the pushrod 1.5" so the pedal would be up against the rubber stop.

after getting it shoehorned in and bled by myself pretty good but not great i did the scientific test of pulling my truck to a hill and pushing down the pedal until it rolled. it started to disengage with the top of the pedal pad 4" from the floor and was free at 3" and had 2 more inches until the master bottoms out 1" from the bare floor.
i'm hoping it will be enough to let it shift freely whenever i finally get it running! with help bleeding it the pedal disengagement should be a little higher and i'll shorten the pushrod so the pedal hits the floor right before the master bottoms out.
also with power applied to the disk it will engage/disengage over more than the 1" of pedal throw it takes to roll or stop it on a shallow hill. even though it sounds touchy it actually felt pretty good.

as far as pedal effort it might be very slightly more than stock setup with a 12" clutch with freshly greased up linkage.

i put a spacer under the flange to tilt it up for bleeding that will come out when done
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...154830_HDR.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._143125181.jpg

the booster brace wound up in the way so i had to bend,cut and weld it to fit behind the resevoir.

don't laugh at the linkage,its temporary until i buy a little heim joint and thread the pushrod for it. i figure its all temporary until it runs and is proven to work as desired.i plan on welding short pieces of pipe into the holes i cut in the firwall ribbing to stiffen them back up.i also might run a strap from one of the bolts to the brake pedal bracket under the dash as well to make sure it never flex fatigues and cracks.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f..._143231872.jpg

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

man it sure is nice to have all three pedals hooked up along with the steering system and shift levers functional!:metal: it almost feels like a truck again for the first time in at over a year rather than some intellectual mechanical problem to solve.

next up i'm putting in the gmcpaul's body mount kit and doing some hard thinking about the saddle tanks and how to pumb and switch the 60psi return system. i'm leaning towards a ford truck dual tank switch but will know for sure once i look into exactly how they are plumbed and work.

also pulled the d60 and have the 14bolt with the new perches just sitting on it until i look into a way to run 3/4t 63's without lifting the truck? i've taken a bunch of measurements and may just need to run stock 70 3/4t 4x4 leaf packs.then i can set pinion angle and burn in the perches.

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

i wound up buying an autometer 2268 adapter to put the stock copper oil sender line in the oil sensor port behind the intake.i want to run stock gauges for now so i'll see how these adapters work out.

also ordered autometer 2277 adapter and 2259 coolant temp sender for the port to the rear of the pass side head to adapt the stock temp gauge.i've read some mixed reviews but i'll give it try before tapping the engine for a stock sender.

also did some measuring on the rear spring swap issue. the factory front hanger bolt eye is 1/4" down from the plane at the bottom of the flat section of frame that goes under the cab.

if i slide the bracket 6" forward on the frame for the 63" spring the bolt eye winds up 3-1/2" below that plane.

the stock 1/2t spring is 8" measured from a line drawn between eyes down to the bottom of the pack where it sets on the axle perch.i'm guessing the 3/4t packs extra thickness would put it at 8-3/4".the 2000 3/4t 63" spring has a 9" arch height and the beefier 80's-90's 3/4t 63's with an extra leaf and thicker overload are 9-3/4" arch. this is all unsprung,no weight compressing or axle pulling down.

so i'd need to make or get a bracket that puts the front eye up about 1/4" up from the plane at the bottom of the frame under the cab to be in the ball park for ride height if i use the 2000 springs or 1-1/2" to 2" up from that plane to run the older 3/4t 63's. you need to go 2x the actual height difference if you're only swinging one side of the spring.

i don't want to raise the shackle hanger height when moving it back since the shackle would hit the bed but the 63" springs are a larger diameter wrap at the eyes so i would need to replace both hangers to make it fit.

on top of all this there are crossmembers inside the frame lining up roughly with the hangers so the frame rails don't twist when weight is applied. in a heavy hauling application you would ideally move and modify those crossmembers to remain in line with the hangers to prevent fatigue.

i do want to do this swap later but i'm seriously leaning towards slapping in some old 69-72 3/4t packs for now and moving on towards actually driving the old girl.

Re: 70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap
 

these 3/8" exhaust flanges for the 2015 camaro manifolds from ebay showed up. machined groove for the gasket.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...350613_HDR.jpg