Issues with restored trucks
 

Wondering what the general consensus is on restored, modified or rebuilt trucks and how they drive or issues with drive ability you have experienced in your projects.

I am rebuilding a base model 69 short stepside. I have the chassis rebuilt with 71 front crossmember and rear end giving me front disc brakes and power steering. Leaning towards replacing the inline six and 3 Ott with a take out LS and Auto Trans. I have a Blazer tank in the rear and I have done drop spindles, bags and bolt in notch, shock relocating brackets etc. I have mounted the tank on top of the frame to keep it from hanging down so low. I need to raise the bed floor a bit anyway to clear the rear pumpkin so I figured a couple more inches wouldn't hurt to clear the tank. I want it to look good but still ride and drive good. I want it to be my daily driver for the most part.

I have driven many restored and rebuilt vehicles, and all of them seem to have issues. Small issues such as wing windows that are too tight due to new rubbers or power steering that doesn't work at idle, or won't self center coming out of a turn. Weird quirks, thumps, bumps, rattles and squeeks seem to abound in all of them. Some of them shade tree built, some not and some with much larger issues.

The old stepside drove so nice and smooth before with the oil burning six, power nothing, the worn out everything and the saggy springs, I hate to loose that during the rebuild. Obviously the more you change the more issues there are to iron out, but how does everyone enjoy there rebuilt, stock or modified, rides?

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

They are machines , there will likely always be something , gives them character !

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

My wife has a Toyota Highlander Hybrid. It's quiet, comfortable, gets pretty decent mileage...

...and it's boring. Oh, and it cost me over $3000 in just parts when the brakes went out.

I'll keep my Blazer. I'd rather have fun than feel pampered.

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

Let's not miss the point here. Ive always driven character over quality. I drove an old fj-40 Land cruiser with a small block in it for 10 years and an old Z-71 gmt400 for another 10 years. I'm 45 and have owned only about 5 vehicles as my daily drivers. I'm well aware of character and issues with old vehicles. My question is why do restored vehicles never seem to function as smoothly as an unrestored rig, regardless of how clapped out they are, within reason obviously. Just making conversation and wondering out loud if anyone has completely rebuilt an old rig that functions 100 percent.

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

Just once a 51 chevy l6 tott 6 volt

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

Well there is a reason that I'm not a big fan or proponent of 'frame off' restorations.....and as a result, notice their 'issues' popping up a lot within the 'restored truck' group.
That way I see it, with a frame off restoration you are essentially dealing with often (not always) a first time build.....so, to me.... this runs the risk of being like 'apprentice day' on the assembly line.
It seems that is why so many things often don't fit, or go wrong or are missing, backwards, incorrect, etc.
Basically, if GM said that your truck was the first day 'assembly training truck' for our new line employees.....you might think twice and wait for one built a couple of months into the general assembly experience...lol.;)
Again....to me, there is something about trying to keep the original truck intact, rolling and driving nice without having to resort to that...hence I'm a fan of the 'rolling restoration' crowd.

....my two bits.
Coley:chevy:

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

They are only original once

There Is a reason to that statement

Most any truck that I have had that is original (and taken care of)
Drives, feels better than any truck I have had that has been restored

Nearly every part on these trucks was built better 45-50 yerars ago than now
They were built to last; and they did

I wonder what a restored truck now with all mostly repop parts would look like
After
40-50 years of normal use ( not being garaged all of the time)
Probably not as good as the original one after 80 years

On An unrestored truck there aren’t any rattles squeaks etc.
the doors shut easy
The windows roll up right
The paint is better etc etc

That’s not to say top notch restorations are not as good

But for me, I would take an original truck
Or
One with an old respray
Any day
Over a frame off restoration

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

But

You can not always find the exact truck you want

So

Restoration is necessary

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

THIS!!!!

I think many times "rebuilt" trucks are rushed, or cheaped out on. Also, seems every time I do a rebuild of anything, I end up doing 1/3 of it again to get it "right". Skip that last 1/3, and you have a nice shiny POS that doesn't run right and has issues up the wazoo.

Combine this with some parts being "modified" (but not tested/proven) and you get a $h*t-show...

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

I believe it comes down to the quality of the build. Quality takes time, time is money. Everything I've built has always had "shakedown" issues for the first couple of runs, after that they just go.
I feel it's important to get something right before moving on (You're tired of working on the drive train & you really want to start on the body). If you don't get everything "dialed in" as you go then you end up with a lot of issues after the build is finished (but it wasn't really finished!)

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

If issues like "wing windows that are too tight due to new rubbers" is of note, then every car I've ever known, factory new, used, or restored has "issues." I've never had a 100% perfect vehicle that didn't have some minor thing or another that could be classified as an issue.

When my truck was new, it had a points distributor and a PCS system. The issues both of these items introduced are gone now, and the engine starts and runs better than new. The sway bar it never had before makes it more stable in turns. I could go on.

In my admittedly very limited experience with restorations, (Or I guess, Resto-mod, if you prefer) you can end up with a vehicle with less issues than when you started.

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

This is good, that's what I'm talking about. These old trucks are so simple....yet so difficult to re create, even with all top notch parts. Must be something magical going on at the Generals house.

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I figure the smart engineers at GM knew what they were doing, and I really don't see much need to try to reinvent it.

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

If you do it right the first time, with good parts, you will end up with a nice driving "gone thru" truck. If you half-fast anything, it will drive accordingly.

Case in point, my current resurrection project was my first vehicle and I did some typical young guy work on it. It's been funny looking at the work I did then, vs how I would do it now as a professional mechanic. This time around it will be a nice driving, quick, and RELIABLE truck.

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

My only fear is the body and moldings. It didn't have the moldings. "First time on the assembly line", but I should have good help. Once the carb. is dialed in, hopefully no issues, or so is the plan..............Ha! Yeah right, see what happens. At least it's not a mod.

These are pretty simple builds and that's a big bonus. Imagine restoring a loaded 2017 Cadillac.

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

My thoughts - as someone that does drive them only in sunny weather if they are that nice - TIME and COMMITMENT.

I have done simple clean ups to full frame off's in my years. I am by no means an expert and learn something from this forum every time I look but they are all the same in that they have lots of issues unless someone truly completed the project.

You can by a truck that is freshly done, perfect looking and exactly what you want. They are out there. The difference, to me, is are they done as opposed to finished.

Done, you made it what you wanted it to look like

Finished, you made it what you wanted it to look like then you worked through all the bugs, kinks, issues, etc. You drove it around the block to find things wrong and brought it back and fixed them. You drove it to work and then fixed what you found. You basically sorted out all the issues and made it a reliable truck and didn't just stop because YOU were done with the project. Whenever you find something that isn't right you fixed it instead of thinking you can live with it.

Lets face it, these are old trucks. I am not an expert assembly person that has to put on 1000 screws into the headlight ring a day and therefore all are at the same torque. But, if I continue with the project after the build and dial in all the problems that need tended to, it can and will be just as reliable and enjoyable to me for the long haul.

Anyway, that is how I view restored vehicles. Many vehicles are not completed, just made to be what the restorer thought was a stopping point. They can be incredible driving and enjoyable for many years, if you put in the work to complete.

-Paul

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-
Mine is a ‘67 Panel Truck but for the sake of this thread everything is the same.

First off I have to say that I am an old school guy from the word GO, and I have been working on old cars & trucks for 57 years….

The Panel Truck was highly modified and most of the bodywork was done when I purchased it, but that didn’t bother me in the least. Front clip welded and molded, front and rear rolled pans, louvered hood, Frenched antenna on the right rear corner, Frenched tail lights with the reverse lights removed, and A CUT DASH!!!… OMG …

It came without an engine/trans so I decided to continue with the mods and install a modified LS1/4l60e combo. It was actually the best choice I could have made. That thing runs so sweet, starts like you flipped an electric switch, gets 24 mpg on the highway, and has so far been pretty much trouble free. Also, if you kick that thing in the butt you better be hanging on because it will set you back in the seat, even in that big old boat….

I do almost all of my own work and there is a bonus to that. If you have trouble on the road you have some idea of where to start looking for the problem. I modified my own stock LS wire loom and that is part of the bonus. I have had a couple of small glitches and was able to fix both of them on the side of the road. I can understand not wanting to use 20 year old original wire looms and in that case my recommendation would be to go ahead and study the online instructions for modifying the wire loom so you know where each component is for your engine, what it does, and how it interacts with other components in the system. That will help you troubleshoot any problems you may encounter.

As far as handling, it has what I “think” is a 2” front, 3”rear drop, Again, done when I bought it, and with springs. The thing that improved driveability the most is when I added the stock type front sway bar. It improved cornering and quick lane changes 200%.

It drives nice enough that my wife actually enjoys driving it....:)

LockDoc

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

It's true, a vehicle is never the same as it was in the form it rolled off the line in. I believe it is possible to get one back very close, without annoying quirks or problems - it just takes a substantial amount of time and perseverance after most call it "finished" to get it just so.

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

They drive as well, and are as reliable as the rebuilder/restorer built them. Expect some initial problems and they should then become reliable. I've built basket case Harleys that were reliable for 15 years after a few hiccups. I've never rebuilt a 4 wheeled vehicle, just repairs while rolling.

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

I would much rather buy an original, unrepaired, rusty truck than a frame-off restoration using unknown methods, skill, paint, and parts.

I am OCD but most people are not. I will pay extra for NOS or proper welding repairs, other guys may not.

I do not want a new crate engine and auto tranny...I want the original six or 8 cylinder and the original manual tranny.

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

I’ve got a good 72 K20 daily driver that I built out of extra parts I had laying around. Fortunate that’s all I tinker with is the 68-72 c/k series. I started with a 72 k20 bare frame and went from there, no mods from factory design just simple build. It took about 6 weeks to do during the evenings and it turned out very well with no issues. I believe the key to my success was using year correct OEM good used parts with no modifications. I’ve got buddies that always want to improve, change, modify or think bigger than original, then they run into problems. Weeks, months and years go by at times with no success or they lose interest in them. That’s okay because we are all different and we should do what we like with our projects. Guess I’m unsophisticated, simple or just lazy, really don’t see much need in changing these cool trucks. Oh I may swap in a simple HEI distributor or add a small lift kit but that’s about all. My ole truck still gets a lot of attention, and that’s really what we all like! It’s also nice being able to run to local parts store for normal maintenance stuff such as brakes, ujoints, gaskets, filters, etc... The much younger than my truck, parts store clerks can normally find these parts much easier in thier computers. Lol

As far as restoration, I do the same thing except clean, rebuild and paint. Makes for a quicker more pleasurable experience. Leave the mods for the experienced professionals that have all the extra cool tools and funding.

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

Our truck "Leroy" was not "an original" when he was purchased as my son's first vehicle 19 years ago. Far from it.

That being said, when it came came time for a makeover, I knew I wanted to take it down to the frame. Not only to make sure it was a solid build, but also to improve the truck with modern technology.

I get the "keep it original" if the truck was purchased with not a thing changed, but who would not want improve upon the engineering of the 60s and 70s.

I have done everything myself except for the metalwork, body work, and paint with the advice of many people including many from this board. Without their help Leroy would not be what he is today.

3 1/2 years of blood, sweat, tears, and money, and I am very pleased with the results.

Still not done...they never really are, are they?

The improvements include modern suspension..tubular front control arms, drop springs/shocks front and rear, front and rear sway bars, rear shock relocators, adjustable panhard bar, added power steering. All of these improvements have made Leroy safer and easier to drive.

In the braking system...front disc brakes, added brake booster, performance pads and shoes. Again, safer and easier to drive.

In the engine/transmission department I stayed "old school" with a 350/350TH set up as this was the power train we transplanted into Leroy 17 years ago as a stock 258hp crate motor and rebuilt transmission. We did opt for the HEI distributor back then because it is so simple to deal with. With an Edlebrock 600cfm electric choke sitting on top, Leroy cranks and runs every time.

Of course, we moved the gas tank to the rear, and routed the filler tube to the left rear side marker. Leroy is a short step side, so it was fairly simple.

In the electrical department a Painless Wiring harness was installed 17 years ago and still provides fantastic reliability and safety. We did this after seeing a 67-72 burning up on the side of the freeway one day.....not a pretty sight. I also used Weather Pack connectors on all of the lighting connections for ease of installation and removal.

Upgraded LED side markers/turn signals, and upgraded headlights, again are brighter and safer. The side markers operate as turn signals just like modern vehicles. Again, added safety.

I did opt for the one piece windows..a change that most do not care for, but I like the fact that the lack of wing windows reduces the chances of someone breaking in.

I have implemented improvements during Leroy's build that I believe enhance drive-ability and safety while not going overboard on cosmetic changes.

In regards to "issues" regarding older vehicles, there have always been problems with new vehicles even in the 60s and 70s. Manufacturing processes and quality control were nowhere near modern day levels. Vehicles were not perfect then, and some are not perfect now. As was pointed out they are mechanical in nature and there will be mechanical failures.

In the end just remember your truck is "your truck". Do what you want, and what you can afford.

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

well it would be nice if some people understood and recognised what it really meant to have a restored vehicle. No more BS about day two and foolishness like that. or the junk with more chrome than a 58 Biuke.

and all that nonsense about putting a vehicle on the forum and irritating people by qualifying thier intentions by insisting if not outright demanding that others not critique it. And then going on to offend or insult people who do anyway

And I ask everyone in general and a few members mentioned above... if a restored vehicle is so bad in so many ways... why describe a vehicle you are trying to sell as restored when it is so clearly not. If a restored vehicle is so bad or looked down upon, then why do so many people claim thier vehicle is restored, and ask rediculous money , for one that is so clearly not.

and aint it kinda funny when we dont dare to critique another members "fully restored" vehicle just because they are a member here.

Just a bit curious about that.

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

I have done a frame off on almost everything I own and have owned.

The key to avoiding problems is patience. I have put a lot of miles on some of my builds, with the same issues any vehicle will give.

As LockDoc said, the biggest improvements you can make to one of these trucks is a sway bar and closer ratio steering box.

I love LS engines, and admire the people that go to the trouble to install one, but I will probably never do one because I can work on an original truck with simple tools and I understand them.

I don't do air ride because you add an entire system to the truck that has to be maintained. I lower with springs and spindles to keep it simple.

I drive my Longhorn every day and the only mod it has is 700R transmission.

I finished the frame off on the 72 in the picture in 1989. After a shakedown run, it has given no trouble related to the restoration. I have driven it over 30,000 miles since it was restored. I would not hesitate to get in either truck, and leave within the next hour for the coast.

I have 67 SWB in the shop, dismantled and ready for a frame off restoration.

On the other hand I went to look at a 72 short bed a while back and it was beautiful to look at. It ran terrible, drove terrible, and broke down on the test drive. A friend bought it worked on it the entire time he had it, sold it, and almost got sued.

I love them all. It's your truck, build it how you want, but again, Patience is the key to restoring a vehicle.

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

^ What Larry said- do them right & they're just as good as GM built them

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For my current Blazer build the goal is to have it better than GM made it - at least I'll replace the missing parts it left St Louis without :)

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These trucks were not perfect when they were shipped from the factory.

The paint on the inside of my K10 is so thin yo can see through it.

I bought a new 72 Cheyenne, and new 76 SWB K10.

The 76 was assembled with a LWB rear wiring harness. It fell in contact with the exhaust and made a heck of a mess.

I have plenty of stories.

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Better even... or at least they can be.

funny thing is, that in corvette land, when you over restore a vehicle, you can actually loose points in judging.

we cannot really discus what a restored vehicle is until we agree on terms and deffinitions. Good luck that.... even though it has long ago already been done by NCRS and recognised by many others in the hobby.

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

A truck can be rebuilt to drive better than it ever did when it came out of the factory. It does take a certain amount of education, skill and lot of work. If vehicles were built right from the factory they wouldn't need warranties.

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Integrity of the corporation also has alot to do with the need of a warrenty

statistically, its impossible to have every vehicle be absolutely flawless from the factory. Many industries try and look at the unit cost of thier products.

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...well the challenge is that you usually never know someone well enough in terms of their skills, experience and GM Truck knowledge to ever know if they did the correct job on the truck...rather than just an enthusiastic effort, to the best of their ability at the time.
There are some very good restorers on this site...but that unfortunately is not the lion's share of what is out there in the market.


My two bits
Coley:chevy:

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

Mine is a daily driver and has been for the last 20 years. It's my long distance runner and my old reliable. I do a lot to make it more so without taking away from why I bought it back then to begin with. I run a 292 I just had built and a 465 but I switched the rear out to a 14 bolt for parts availability. My Armstrong steering never broke so I never fixed it, I would love air conditioning but I never got around to it so I roll down the windows and sit happily in a blast furnace. The unfortunate thing is I have never had the money or the time to do the body work properly so that it's suffering terribly and I feel bad. I went backwards on the choke and use a cable because I find them to be simple to use in all sessions and I installed a second gas tank in the rear because I'm always on the road and I installed the stitch where the hand throttle would have gone on the dash with a choke knob so it looks like the rest of the controls, you know, natural. I'd love to see it with good metal and paint and not leak water all over the place, how do I get there if I have no body work ability and I've never been able to quite find a good body shop? :P

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No complaint's here for my 71 that I have redone. I love it and drive it all the time. It's how you build it that makes the difference. If it's built to drive then it should be fine, if built for show then it's going to have it's problems.

I've driven my 71 on 3 Hot Rod Power Tours so far and not one breakdown are problems except the AC one year was acting up towards the end but it was the switch. That's over 3000 miles in one week to. I drove my truck every day to work and built it as I could back in the 80' through the 90's. It ran I-85 a bunch and it only had minor problems. I had over 150,000 on the factory 307 when I took it out and over 200,00 on the 305 TPI motor when I took it out. Now the LS has about 120,000 on it.
I built it to be comfortable & reliable. :chevy:

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Andy4639.....that's what I like to hear

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

There is a huge difference between restoring something to its original form and reworking it to employ significant changes in engineering, equipment, and form.

The former requires attention to detail, but it preserves the integrity of the original design.

The latter ventures into waters uncharted by the original designers.

I say again that the original designers knew what they were doing, and I have no desire to second guess them.

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

I'm currently restoring a 72 Custom for my grandson. We've been at it for a year and a half now. When we started, I was hoping to get him interested in all things mechanical and proper tool selection and usage. He still doesn't know the difference between a Phillips head screw driver and sledge hammer but he has been at my side the whole time. I will settle just to make him understand what real patience, blood, sweat and tears goes into a job like this. Besides that, He's learning to cuss like a sailor. The main thing that I try to impose on him is that it's a really big job and you have to keep chipping away at it. Never put the breaks on it or you might not get re-started. He also knows now that it's better (IMO) to stick to the particular part or section that you begin to work on and try not to jump around the project if you can possibly help it. The truck is currently in the assembly phase so, He's picking up his interest a lot more. As far as working out all the kinks is concerned, it's all just part of finalizing the project. This is his first restoration, not mine. He still thinks I'm a genius. I can't disappoint the boy.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...psisvtfgk1.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...psxdqqvlre.jpg

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Nice truck, I love the 503 Green. Is the top the 528 Ivory?

Rg

Re: Issues with restored trucks
 

Thanks. The top is GM white