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forestb 05-19-2020 05:01 PM

better ride quality
 
I have a 62 C10 with a 350 and a 77 c10 front cross member. I have cpp 2 inch drop spindles and 2 inch drop springs and drop shocks with relocated brackets. In the rear I have 1 inch drop blocks and 4 inch drop coils and drop shocks with relocated brackets. Sway bars front and rear and an adjustable panhard bar.

The ride quality is not vary good. I found it feels better with a little weight in the bed. I can give the specks on the front shocks if it would help but don't have the rear.

I know that air bags will give me a smoother ride but I don't know if I want to go that far if I don't need to.

What do you all recommend?

SCOTI 05-20-2020 09:32 AM

Re: better ride quality
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by forestb (Post 8742657)
I have a 62 C10 with a 350 and a 77 c10 front cross member. I have cpp 2 inch drop spindles and 2 inch drop springs and drop shocks with relocated brackets. In the rear I have 1 inch drop blocks and 4 inch drop coils and drop shocks with relocated brackets. Sway bars front and rear and an adjustable panhard bar.

The ride quality is not vary good. I found it feels better with a little weight in the bed. I can give the specks on the front shocks if it would help but don't have the rear.

I know that air bags will give me a smoother ride but I don't know if I want to go that far if I don't need to.

What do you all recommend?

You need to determine the spring rate of the rear coils. What brand?
What shocks & relocating kit was used?
What is the wheel tire combination?

forestb 05-20-2020 11:35 AM

Re: better ride quality
 
The rear coils cpp brand.
The shocks are cpp brand.
There was no relocation kit used the old frame brackets were cut off and welded back on.
The front tires are 275/50R17 and the rears are 275/55R17.

SCOTI 05-20-2020 11:46 AM

Re: better ride quality
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by forestb (Post 8743102)
The rear coils cpp brand.
The shocks are cpp brand.
There was no relocation kit used the old frame brackets were cut off and welded back on.
The front tires are 275/50R17 and the rears are 275/55R17.

One of the main things I dislike about CPP products are the limited info they provide to the end-user.

The choppy ride can be caused by the springs rate which they don't publish anywhere so it's hard to know if you have the right spring. It's great that it's the height you desired but if it's not an optimum spring rate the ride quality suffers. Who cares about that as long as it looks good..... Right? :rolleyes:

Your tires have a decent amount of sidewall @ almost 6" so we can effectively rule any 'rubber-band tire' theory out.

I'm curious as well about the shocks dimensions & the frame brackets you mentioned:
Quote:

There was no relocation kit used the old frame brackets were cut off and welded back on.
What was done that required cutting the old shock brackets off & welding them back on?
Does the truck still have factory bump-stops or aftermarket units? How much clearance?
How much clearance to the first point of contact in the rear (what would make contact w/the rear end first when compressed)?

Get some measurements for the rear:
Distance between the upper & lower shock mounting holes @ ride height.
Shocks extended length.
Shocks compressed length.
Shock length @ ride height.

Any pics that can be provided of the rear set-up can help ID or eliminate possibilities as well.

forestb 05-20-2020 11:53 AM

Re: better ride quality
 
I emailed cpp about the spring rate.
The rear shocks they sell are 180 PSI nitrogen gas shocks.
When we relocated the rear shocks it was mostly to get them into a more vertical position in order to improve ride quality. The rear shocks are also drop shocks so the length did not need to be adjusted much.
On the front when I did the front cross member conversion I removed the 1962 upper brackets and had the 1977 bracket welded in a new location.

SCOTI 05-20-2020 12:26 PM

Re: better ride quality
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by forestb (Post 8743117)
I emailed cpp about the spring rate.
The rear shocks they sell are 180 PSI nitrogen gas shocks.
When we relocated the rear shocks it was mostly to get them into a more vertical position in order to improve ride quality. The rear shocks are also drop shocks so the length did not need to be adjusted much.
On the front when I did the front cross member conversion I removed the 1962 upper brackets and had the 1977 bracket welded in a new location.

Get the additional dimensions as requested.

Without knowing info specifics (like knowing the tire sidewall height was helpful), it's difficult to eliminate or focus on possibilities. You're just throwing darts in the dark & not knowing what/where the bullseye is located.

forestb 05-20-2020 12:42 PM

Re: better ride quality
 
I don't know if this will help at all but the front shocks are
13" fully extended
8 3/4" fully compressed
11 1/4" with full wait on the tires.

SCOTI 05-20-2020 12:55 PM

Re: better ride quality
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by forestb (Post 8743144)
I don't know if this will help at all but the front shocks are
13" fully extended
8 3/4" fully compressed
11 1/4" with full wait on the tires.

4.25" total travel.
2.5" max travel of driving compression.

Basically, 2" of compression travel before the shock reaches its limit. Driving down the road @ 40mph in a 3500# truck & hitting a dip or bump w/a 2" travel limit is going to require everything to be optimized. I'm betting you're right on the limit. Probably fine 70% of the time. Not so much for the other 30%.

It will be interesting to see what you come up w/on the rear.

Ask CPP about your front spring rates as well.

forestb 05-20-2020 01:41 PM

Re: better ride quality
 
from what I can tell by the dirt marks on the front shock rods they have not fully compressed. But that might just be because at times the cups that hold the upper coils contact the bump stop brackets on the lower control arms. I am going to trim them this weekend for clearance.

SCOTI 05-20-2020 01:53 PM

Re: better ride quality
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by forestb (Post 8743180)
from what I can tell by the dirt marks on the front shock rods they have not fully compressed. But that might just be because at times the cups that hold the upper coils contact the bump stop brackets on the lower control arms. I am going to trim them this weekend for clearance.

So now you've swapped your percentages. If bump-stops are limiting clearance to less than </=2", you definitely need attention there.

Our trucks look great low. Problem is, once you go so far the ride quality is impacted unless other things (like your bump-stop dilemma) are corrected. It takes a lot of work to sort through everything sometimes. Many won't put forth the effort/investment & just 'live w/it'.

PGSigns 05-21-2020 10:17 PM

Re: better ride quality
 
I spent a lot of time working out the ride on my 66. Basic setup is 2" springs in the front with 2 1/2" spindles and 4" springs in the rear with a 1 1/4" block with 2 1/2 degrees of wedge in it. First set of shocks were the generic drop stuff that are jeep shocks, they were terrible. Then a set of drop shocks from POL i think, they were ok for about 10,000 miles and then toast. The last set is the belltech street performance and they are very good. On the rear I have the stops for traction bars and that works good in the back. In the front the stock stops have had about 3/4" trimmed. This mod stopped most of the hard hits from bad roads. I have a long bed and moving the gas tank to the rear is a help with the ride. On tire one thing you can do is go on places like tire rack and look at the ride quality rating on tires you have or are thinking about. Tires of the same size can have way different side wall construction and ride qualities. The more performance oriented a tire is the stiffer the side wall tends to be. One thing else I did was have the stock seat redone. This time with foam and not the cotton. That made a difference you could feel. What it comes down to is looking at it all from the ground to your back side and doing what you can for every part of the total ride system.
Jimmy

SCOTI 05-22-2020 12:12 AM

Re: better ride quality
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PGSigns (Post 8744008)
I spent a lot of time working out the ride on my 66. Basic setup is 2" springs in the front with 2 1/2" spindles and 4" springs in the rear with a 1 1/4" block with 2 1/2 degrees of wedge in it. First set of shocks were the generic drop stuff that are jeep shocks, they were terrible. Then a set of drop shocks from POL i think, they were ok for about 10,000 miles and then toast. The last set is the belltech street performance and they are very good. On the rear I have the stops for traction bars and that works good in the back. In the front the stock stops have had about 3/4" trimmed. This mod stopped most of the hard hits from bad roads. I have a long bed and moving the gas tank to the rear is a help with the ride. On tire one thing you can do is go on places like tire rack and look at the ride quality rating on tires you have or are thinking about. Tires of the same size can have way different side wall construction and ride qualities. The more performance oriented a tire is the stiffer the side wall tends to be. One thing else I did was have the stock seat redone. This time with foam and not the cotton. That made a difference you could feel. What it comes down to is looking at it all from the ground to your back side and doing what you can for every part of the total ride system.
Jimmy

Excellent notes/ideas!

forestb 05-22-2020 04:58 PM

Re: better ride quality
 
So it sound like my first step (if I never hear back from CPP about the spring rate) is to get some belltech street performance shocks all the way around and then go from there. I have drop shocks on the front. Would you all recommend getting drop shocks again or stock length shocks and relocating the bracket? I already have a foam seat and I don't think I can do much about the tires. It was hard enough finding anything in the size I have.

That is after I replace my upper control arm this weekend and trim my bump stop perches.

SCOTI 05-22-2020 05:04 PM

Re: better ride quality
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by forestb (Post 8744397)
So it sound like my first step (if I never hear back from CPP about the spring rate) is to get some belltech street performance shocks all the way around and then go from there. I have drop shocks on the front. Would you all recommend getting drop shocks again or stock length shocks and relocating the bracket? I already have a foam seat and I don't think I can do much about the tires. It was hard enough finding anything in the size I have.

That is after I replace my upper control arm this weekend and trim my bump stop perches.

Stock length shocks & relocating brackets is the route I've taken on trucks/cars I've been involved with. I do the math calcs I recommended above on the stock spec'd shocks to start & the opt for relocating the mounts if they don't fall within I want.

Based on the notes you provided, I think your fine on the sidewall height (tire sizing).

forestb 05-23-2020 08:11 PM

Re: better ride quality
 
2 Attachment(s)
I took some photos of my suspension with the weight fully of and the weight on. The weight on photo is not as low as usual sense I just put it back on the ground after working on it. I replaced the upper control arm, lower ball joint boots and removing the bump stop perched. After all that I was to exhausted to check my rear shock lengths and snap some photos. Maybe on Monday. It does look like my front shocks might be leaking.

PGSigns 05-24-2020 08:34 PM

Re: better ride quality
 
The front looks a little like the shock may be a little short. Just hard to tell from pictures. I am not a fan of the shock brackets that have been added to yours. There is a 5/8" hole in the frame for the stock shock mounts and the stock mounts space the shock off the frame some. What you have may not be aligned as good as a stock mount. O the rear did you move the bottom of the shock forward when you rewelded you mounts? That is done with the kits and it does improve the shock angle.
Jimmy

forestb 05-24-2020 10:20 PM

Re: better ride quality
 
Thanks for your help, but I believe those are the stock shock mounts for my 62 only relocated. The 77 had a stud bolted to the frame but that would have required me to graft that part of the frame to my 62 frame. I don't think they could have been bolted on sense the stock frame is boxed in that location. The only way I can get the shock mounts much higher is if someone makes a bracket that will relocate it above the frame rail.

As far as the rear shocks go I moved it into a more vertical location.

forestb 05-24-2020 10:25 PM

Re: better ride quality
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here is a photo of what the 77 had. Was this what you were thinking of?

forestb 05-25-2020 04:39 PM

Re: better ride quality
 
5 Attachment(s)
So I took some measurements today and some photos. You can see in the photo where the original location of the mount was located.
14.5” with the weight on the suspension.
11.5” shock fully compressed.
18.5” shock fully extended.
The first and last photo is with the suspension hanging.
The third and fourth photo are with weight on the suspension

forestb 05-25-2020 04:50 PM

Re: better ride quality
 
1 Attachment(s)
The red arrow is pointing at the old attachment location. The mount might look like itís not fully welded but there is part of the bracket that attaches to the top of the frame.

Sorry that my photos are all turned around.

PGSigns 05-25-2020 08:42 PM

Re: better ride quality
 
The pictures are hard to see the overall angle but the shock on the back dont look to bad. One thing that looks close but very hard to see is how much travel you have in the back before the housing hits the frame. Have you gone through and looked at your drive line angles since you dropped it?
Jimmy

forestb 05-25-2020 11:01 PM

Re: better ride quality
 
I think I have around 4-5 inches in the rear before the housing hits the frame. I have not checked the drive line angles sense I lowered it. I have been afraid to. I have not noticed any kind of vibration so I never bothered. I have changed the length of the drive shaft so that is not bottoming out in the trans.

SCOTI 05-26-2020 09:42 AM

Re: better ride quality
 
Rear shock set-up looks functionally decent as far as angle & amount of travel.

The 4-5" of travel before possible contact.... What were you basing the number off of? Rear end hitting the frame? What about bump-stop clearance? Differential to floor or floor supports?

SCOTI 05-26-2020 09:50 AM

Re: better ride quality
 
2 Attachment(s)
Rotated pics to get better insight on the front....

SCOTI 05-26-2020 09:52 AM

Re: better ride quality
 
5 Attachment(s)
Rotated pics to get better insight on the rear....


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