Question for the purists
 

When you are restoring a truck to be as close to stock as possible do you feel it is ok to add options that were available to your year even if your truck didn't come with that option?

Lets say you had a pretty basic truck and added some factory options. One of the new things you added isn't an option, but a new spid. Would you consider it ok to add the new options to the new spid?

Basic truck, added stock air, added air con to new spid ... Ok?

Basic truck, added everything to make it a Cheyenne Super, added to spid ... Ok?

Where would you draw the line?

Re: Question for the purists
 

If I were to do it like this I would keep the stock as built spid on the glove box door and then have a second updated spid made with the added options and place it maybe next the original or something like that. For me I like to have the original spid on the truck still.

Re: Question for the purists
 

Lets pretend the original spid is long gone, but you have the build sheet. Or maybe the you just know the truck as you own it is how it came from the factory. Then?

Re: Question for the purists
 

I'm a long way from a purist, but I do appreciate correct restorations. I think it's surely ok to do what you want with your truck. It's not ok to misrepresent it as a factory correct restoration.

Re: Question for the purists
 

Nothing pure about adding what wasn't there. Do what you want to your own truck but be honest about what it is if selling. To some, it's a plus to have all the bells and whistles even if they aren't original. But a purist will want it as built. I don't think it's a purest thing, it's a true collector thing. A truck that actually came with all the goodies, or a unique combination of, is a stand out truck compared to one that had it added. I think there are fewer who would be honest about the changes than those with the level of integrity to disclose. We see it all the time on Ebay.

Re: Question for the purists
 

So basically no matter how tiny of an option you add you better not add it to the new spid? Your truck had lighter delete, you add a lighter ... don't put it on the new spid?

EDIT: BTW Im not a purist in the least, I don't care about absolute stock. Sometimes these questions come to me after perusing the board nearly all day lol.

Re: Question for the purists
 

I wouldn't mess with the spid. I think it is supposed to represent what the truck had when it left the factory

Re: Question for the purists
 

I judge the value of the truck by it's original SPID.

If it has a replacement SPID I will automatically consider it a "mutt". Not hating, I just prefer the authenticity.

Re: Question for the purists
 

In my case, I want my truck to be as original as possible, but I wasn't building a show truck or a study in perfect restoration to original, so made what I considered to be important changes only. My truck is pretty much as it came from the factory, with a few exceptions. I added A/C, a front sway bar, carpet (originally vinyl mat), and 3-point seat belts. Another change was to the seat cover, because the base model parchment vinyl seat cover isn't repopped, I used a higher option style of seat cover. In the engine bay, I put in an HEI instead of the points distributor, internally regulated alternator, an aluminum radiator, and a radiator overflow tank.

I guess now the at I wrote it all out, it seems like a lot, but each change was made for a reason, mostly for safety, and reliability purposes.

I wanted original, but was willing to compromise originality where it made sense. I didn't touch my SPID, though, so anyone would know the stuff I changed was added

Re: Question for the purists
 

I say do what you like. A true purist willing to pay large for the right truck will demand more than just the shinny new SPID. Documentation is what purists pay for and make a high option truck worth more than a period correct clone. It's all in your intention.

Re: Question for the purists
 

As an admitted purist I say no harm in correcting a "birth defect" from GM. Keep the original GB door/SPID for wall art and have a new GB door/SPID made and installed after the build.

Who will whine that an OEM tach cluster, OEM tilt column, limited slip differential, OEM FM radio etc was installed? Done correctly these additions are a plus IMO. My current Blazer build will have the tilt, tach, FM, and limited slip rear omitted by the original buyer :)

Re: Question for the purists
 

I bought my truck off the lot in 1969. It was a high option CST 3/4 ton with buckets and A/C. About the only things it lacked were gauges and power brakes, but the dealer added power brakes as a condition of the sale.

I'm normally a purist. I restored my '58 Corvette to NCRS standards, and it received the NCRS Duntov and Bloomington Gold awards. When I restored the truck starting in 2010, I added options such as OEM gauges with tach, tilt wheel, and AM/FM. Of course, the tilt and AM/FM weren't available in 1969 but are correct for this generation. I also replaced the bed wood with fancy oak and the original 350 with a GM Vortec crate 350. I still have the original engine and all removed parts that will go with the truck when my heirs sell it.

I think the difference in the way I approached the 2 restorations was due to the fact that I'd owned the truck so long and just wanted it to be a bit more unique and enjoyable. All changes made could be fairly easily reversed by a new purist owner (but, other than perhaps the engine, I don't know why) using the original parts on hand.

I have been toying with the idea of having a new SPID made but would never consider replacing the original or misrepresenting the truck. It would, however, be cool to display the SPIDS side-by-side.

Re: Question for the purists
 

No way would I touch my SPID. I see it as a "document" and changing that as "forgery."

Although dad did pretty serious changes like the all steel bed and sides (1/8" welded all round), power steering and brakes, I have no custom plans that are hard to revert back from.

Re: Question for the purists
 

I agree with you DeadheadNM.

Re: Question for the purists
 

X's 2.

Its your truck so do what you will but be honest.

If those additional options are available from another truck then that would be the truck to restore or maintain origonal.

the SPID does not tell the whole story but there is a line that , when you cross it, everything changes.


heres another conundrum... My 68K20 has 13K miles on it. It came with those california mirrors, I dont like them so I took them off. They were not on the SPID. so have I harmed the value? Am I dishonest.. It has aftermarket AC and dual tanks so its not origonal but everything was installed when it was new. who and when was a line crossed?

Re: Question for the purists
 

Pete, that’s exactly what I was trying to say. You articulated it perfectly!

Re: Question for the purists
 

Another conundrum.
I'm a purist in the the sense that if I did any changes or upgrades, only factory parts were used.
Upgrades I've made are: tach, tilt, PS,PB, and '70 bucket seats.
I've rebuilt the whole drivetrain, but dressed up the engine just a little.
Ride height is staying stock, but I run aftermarket wheels/tires.
Keep the original SPID, because yes, this is the way the truck left the dealer.
Have a new SPID made, but annotate the upgrades.
If you were to sell, those who know will appreciate the effort.

Re: Question for the purists
 

I was thinking, how bout if you have a new SPID made, like I said because the old one is hypothetically gone. You put an asterisk next to any factory options you added but weren't original to the truck. Down below you could have the little asterisk symbol and have a line that says something like *Not Original To This Truck. Or something along those lines. SPID would look cool, nice and new along with the rest of the truck and no deception.

Re: Question for the purists
 

I had a highly optioned Red Orange & White '72 K/20 Cheyenne Super Custom Camper just like Pete's I bought in '91 from California. It came with wood floor, aux fuel tank, tilt, tach, A/C, aux battery, no-spin, tow hooks, AM/FM, and on. I went out and acquired things it didn't have because I had so close to the ultimate truck...bucket seats/console, shoulder belts, n.o.s. bedside & tool box door, front posi, and even an A/C high hump clearance lamp cab for when I restored it. As time went by waiting to start the resto I came to realize it would be foolish to alter such a prime example of a K/20 from how it was built. I left it as built to retain it's true value...in more than dollars and cents. I just built another truck with all that. One that was not so special.

An original SPID represents the build sheet. An original SPID is a true document to how truck was built. A new SPID screams created truck, even if it is a copy of original.

Re: Question for the purists
 

I hate it when my SPID screams :lol:

I like this thread. Like seeing everyone's thought process

Re: Question for the purists
 

When i bought my GMC it had a spid that didn't belong to the truck. I will build it with period correct parts.

Re: Question for the purists
 

A SPID is nothing more than a silly sticker, I say do whatever you want to a 50 year old truck. A new spid can be made to reflect the additions if it’s that important to a person.

Re: Question for the purists
 

I say add whatever you want, but I’m not a fan of adding to the SPID. My reasoning is that you may be honest when you sell the truck but who knows what’ll happen 10 years down the road after a few sellers.

I would rather not have an SPID than an altered one , but I do like the asterisk idea, so you have all the options on there, but it’s clear that they aren’t factory.

I like this for mine:

6BTA Cummins Engine System*
NV5600 Six Speed Manual Transmission*
...

*Accessories installed after OEM delivery*

Re: Question for the purists
 

I can appreciate a pure restoration, but I also think that in some cases keeping a truck 100% original makes it less enjoyable to drive. My 69 C1500 didn't have power steering or a sway bar from the factory, but it does now. It doesn't have power disc brakes, A/C, or carpet, but it may eventually get all of those things. I do keep any original parts I take off my truck, and I try not to make any modifications that permanently change anything.
I think that a correct restoration is fine if you plan on taking it to shows or not driving it, but if you want a truck to drive it isn't important to keep it stock.

Re: Question for the purists
 

These trucks have been popular and sought after since new. A lot of the parts will easily swap out with no evidence and has been done through the past 45 plus years. How would you know if it was a added option if the original SPID was gone? Then on the other hand, GM dealerships may have swapped the parts to make a sell, causing a SPID not to match anyway. I just witnessed this on a new truck I purchased recently.
I do keep the original glove box lid with SPIDs set aside for my builds that get new SPIDs. If it doesn't have the original SPID, then the value should drop. My original SPIDs are readily available and offered to any potential buyer to look at when I'm selling. I don't care telling the truth and I'll explain why. I myself prefer the K models, GM didn't make many 4x4's during these years especially high optioned ones. In the 500 mile radius around me, I've only found one true factory high optioned 4x4 truck in the past thirty five years of buying/restoring 68-72 4x4's. It had been brought in from the west coast and was a "left for dead" theft recovered one. It was missing the 350V8 engine, factory buckets/console, tilt and tach dash (stolen). I'm sure those parts ended up in someone's 2WD Super Cheyenne build somewhere years ago. Obviously they wasn't building a 4x4, because of all those awesome factory 4WD parts were still in place. With that being said, the purist in me is okay with taking a factory 68-72 K series (4x4) truck, restoring it back with some added factory correct options, using factory year correct OEM parts then add matching SPID. If it's done correctly, your parts store will never know the differ.

I know there are people that will argue my opinion on here and that's okay, I get it and understand their side too. I just enjoying building them with those hard to find factory options, then driving and enjoying! No need to lie or be misleading, buyers are there for them all! These trucks are loved in any shape or form!!

Re: Question for the purists
 

Every truck is only original once. When you repaint or replace stuff it isn't original anymore. There are some stunning untouched trucks on this board. If it didn't need any work I would leave it but once I change something major I will make it how I want it. For my build I added what I wanted but everything in 67-72 gm car/truck era. I tried to build it how gm could have done it with the car options. I am not selling it though. That's how I like it. Vintage feel still. I don't feel bad about changing it at all.

Re: Question for the purists
 

Well, I’m gonna split hairs. As much as I hate to admit it, I guess I’m a purist :) - or, maybe more appropriately, I’ve become one. If I had a no-kidding rare gem. I’d restore it to what the SPID actually states it was born with, without any additions. That would be a very uncommon thing, like say a 72 C10 SWB Super that had every option available except AM/FM. In THAT very rare instance, I wouldn’t add a factory AM/FM to it.

In the other 99.99% of the cases, I think factory available options that were available in YOM are about the coolest things one can add to trucks like these. In my 72 Custom Camper Highlander, I’ve indeed added some things that were available in 72 that the truck wasn’t born with. Yes, add buckets, AM/FM, tilt, etc. add whatever you like! All good.

Personally, I don’t change the SPID though. It is just a sticker and doesn’t mean much except in Case 1 above when it comes to resale, so I don’t really see a reason to alter it either - once altered, there’s no way to know (buyer) or prove (seller) what’s been added (if that matters to someone). I’d keep the original gb door at a minimum if I did - that is a good plan. But, if there’s no build sheet - that original SPID is the only record of what it came with, and when it comes to selling it - it simply doesn’t matter what you KNOW about the truck because you bought it new, for instance - all that matters is what you can prove. And in Case 2, folks will see the factory additions for what they are worth and appreciate that they were added in most cases.

And keep in mind that we, here, make up the very small minority of the truck buying world that actually even know what a SPID is or what options were available in what years. That’s my 2 cents anyway.

Re: Question for the purists
 

I like to keep things original and the SPID is very important to me. That said, I would love to add AC to mine, but don't know if I could cut holes into my original dash. Would that hurt or help the value??... it doesnt really matter to me because I would never sell it.

However, the purist in me keeps on rethinking it (over and over :lol:).

Re: Question for the purists
 

is being a purist a bad thing?

I did not think so.

I thought it was more like a responsibility. or an obligation.

maybe the reason there are so few purist's defending themselves is because there are so few of us. Ipso facto there are few trucks that actually qualify as such. Think about that befor you hack chop and cut up a nice old truck. Sell it, buy a junker and do it up, leave the old origonals alone... Why did you even buy it if it did not do for you what you wanted it too.

I become suspect when you fake so many options that dramatically increase the value of the truck and then fake the SPID too.

even if the truck gets loadded up, why then change the Spid too?

Honesty remains the best policy...always

Its like owning the Mona Lisa and not liking the smile so you get a Sharpie and draw in some knocked out teath. Yea, its yours to do with what you want.

Re: Question for the purists
 

I'm not a purist because I do modified trucks as well as 100% original. A purist would not approve of my modified trucks.

A SPID is just a silly sticker? That's a joke, right? That has got to be the most incorrect statement in this thread, if not. You see, it has the VIN on it which proves a truck with no more and no less options than shown on it is bonified, same as a build sheet. I guess a VIN plate is just a silly piece of metal and the title is a silly piece of paper by that logic.

Yes a truck is only "factory" original once, but it can be repaired, restored, refurbished to remain original. Some trucks had to have an original part replaced by the dealer under warranty. The same factory part was used to replace the faulty one and that truck is still 100% original. If there is a 100% factory original truck out there it has a dead for over 40 years battery and rotten flat tires.

Here is a 5,000+ mile 100% original '73 C10. Except the original tires are in the bed. It's not a Cheyenne Super, it doesn't have A/C, 307/3spd. Nothing added, yet some nice looking options. If anything had been done to "upgrade" this truck it would have killed it's value as an original. The rear bumper is a dealer installed Luverne as well as the GM accessory VentVisors. Many trucks came through with no rear bumper because only some states were just beginning to require safety inspections on trucks. The original tires are laying in the bed.

Re: Question for the purists
 

Sorry specia-k but that's not a year correct truck for this forum. Lol, had to say that. Appreciate and respect all your comments and also a super nice square body truck!!!

Re: Question for the purists
 

Sorry!!! :lol: I showed this one because I just saw it at the Fall Carlisle auction. Not year correct but I felt it was a good example related to the topic. If I bought that truck I wouldn't add any factory options.

I think trucks with odd or unique combinations are cooler than top of the line loaded trucks. I've seen original Customs with more options than many Cheyenne Supers. To me that is cooler. I had a Red Orange '71 SWB K/10 Custom with 292/4spd, fr & rr posi, tow hooks, bucket seats, AM/FM, tach, tilt, wood floor, HD radiator, and chrome bumper. No trim, no A/C, yet all those options. It was awesome from the factory and very unique

Re: Question for the purists
 

all kidding aside... K establishes a very good point. Not only is this truck valuable in its own right. Its irreplacable. Only a lump would buy it for the purpose of chop, cut rebuild....

theres a down side too. these origonal trucks.... you cant just hop in them and drive them. first it devalues them, second it can be risky. rubber and other parts may have deteriorated. thus causing a fire hazard. rusty voltage regulators can cause electrical hazards. old batteries can leak acid. oils can decompose...

thats why some people are simply not cut out to be responsible for these types of vehicles. You show them, you dont drive them, and you certainly dont chop cut or rebuild them. if your going to turn a truck into junk, then start with junk

Re: Question for the purists
 

No problem and understand. Just funnin with ya on such a serious subject to some. And wow, that 71 K10 you had, pic of it would have been cool example!! And year correct!!!

Re: Question for the purists
 

My truck retains the original engine and trans, alternator (!) and power steering. Yeah, that alternator looks like it has never been apart. My father in law made all kinds of changes to it, mostly for the better (trans cooler, overflow tank, etc.). But lots of other changes should just be considered personal preference, like the aftermarket AM/FM Cassette player. He added all kinds of gadgets like a tach, altimeter, ambient temperature gauges, compass, etc.

I converted it to front disc brakes after inheriting it, having driven it in the past with a towed camper in the rain. It has a new camper shell as of last February. Mostly, I like it to look original. But some technologies are going to supersede what came from the factory. I won't apologize for that. I'm not selling, so I don't care. When my wife and I are dead and gone, one of our sons (of 3) is interested in having it. The other two couldn't care less about "an old truck". He's the one who helped me rebuild the front end when we put in the disc brakes. I needed someone to stand on the lower A-arms while pulling 170 Ft-Lbs of torque. :D

Re: Question for the purists
 

OK, when I was growing up in the 60's and 70's, I always hanged out in garages watching and listening, and learning. All these so called builders called a purist some thing different. My understanding was if you restored or beefed up a car or truck, you use the components the factory used. Example; If you build a Buick, you use Buick. If you build a Pontiac, you use Pontiac. Etc, etc. An unpure vehicle would be someone built an Oldsmobile and put a Chevy drive train in it. Someone built a Mopar and put a Ford drive train in it. My understanding of what most of you are talking about keeping the truck as factory original as possible. Wouldn't that be a concours? Not a purist? I'm with you guys about the SPID, don't deceived others to get a oooooh or aaaaah reaction because you added options on the SPID that the truck didn't have in the first place. It's your truck, add the options, but why lie about it. For what it's worth, leave legal documents alone. I'm pretty sure your not going to get extra points for a forgery. I've seen people at shows get into arguments about parts added on by the owner claiming it was original. Ask your self, was it worth it?

Re: Question for the purists
 

My 1968 C10 stepside LWB had absolutely ZERO options. My grandfather was a notorious cheapskate, so he bought this "no frills" model. So for years I have had to struggle with no power steering, no tilt steering, no automatic transmission, no power brakes, no disc brakes, no A/C, no gauges, no lighter plug, a tired I6 engine (I HATE those), and no radio.
So I have had the following installed (so far):
Power / Tilt steering
1972 Blazer 250 engine
Automatic transmission 700R4
Tachometer gauge cluster with Vacuum gauge
Lighter plug

Next up is the power brakes, with the front disk conversion, maybe the A/C, and I have a factory AM radio that is going to be converted to modern day AM/FM.
Does all this make my truck's value go down? Maybe, but it does not matter to me. It will NEVER be sold since it is a family heirloom, and since it had NO options whatsoever, I have absolutely ZERO regrets for replacing (and planning to replace) all the aforementioned things to make it better and safer to drive. In this case upgrading is great!

Re: Question for the purists
 

I have no problem with people adding options and printing up a new SPID to make them feel better.

I do have a problem with the truck inevitably being sold down the line as that being the factory SPID. We all know it's going to happen if you don't put "REPRODUCTION" on it.

Some states are passing cowl tag laws, with the tag being defined as any plaque or list of options and colors (etc), and that modifying or faking one is illegal in that state. Not all states yet, but it's still a legal and ethical problem.

To put my money where my mouth is, I considered doing it for my truck. In the end I left the factory SPID and build sheets untouched. So my truck has tilt and speed warning but they do not appear on the SPID.

Re: Question for the purists
 

Oh, I knew you wuz justa funnin'. That was a good one, by the way. I wish I had pictures of that one and some others I've had. I didn't always take pictures of my stuff back in the day, and many I did had fell victim to a war of roses kinda thing. I married me a high spirited woman

Re: Question for the purists
 

I would have left it as-is. That has to be one of the coolest combinations ever, no-frills bone stock. Obviously, you disagree, and you get to do whatever you want!