Porsche 944: Actually there is a substitute
 

Hi everyone! Usually I am pic heavy and word light but I thought I would announce the start of my 1st official 2nd project before anything has actually happened and before there are any pictures! :lol:

I just bought a 1986 Porsche 944 that will be the foundation of my next build. Like most of us on this forum, I succumbed to ADD and bought a 2nd project before I finished my 1st. :metal:

I will be stuffing an LSX V8 into a Porsche 944. This alone is not unique but as those of you who follow my Halfbreed build know – I seem to be the guy who tries to throw a special “spin” on my build. That will be the case with the 944. There are already many pioneers ahead of me who have rigged a 944 with LSX power. There are also a brave few who have stayed California Air Resources Board (CARB) legal. I will be following in the footsteps of these guys but will attempt to throw my typical twist on things down the road a bit.

My publicist told me that there is no such thing as bad publicity so I thought I would make the announcement just ahead of the holiday weekend and generate some buzz! :chevy: I won’t have the vehicle in my sinister little hands for a couple of more weeks. Stay tuned for the next post – which will include a rant concerning all the things wrong with the 944 and what I will try to do to show those German bastards how they should have done things!

Have a safe and happy July 4th holiday!

Re: Porsche 944: Actually there is a substitute
 

I'm in

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Subscribed
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Count me in!!
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Re: Porsche 944: Actually there is a substitute
 

:lol: Can't wait to see it!

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Sign me up!

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Im in cant wait to see what ya do to this thing..

Re: Porsche 944: Actually there is a substitute
 

In.:metal:

Re: Porsche 944: Actually there is a substitute
 

For about a year now I have been thinking I would do another build. One day I was surfing Autotrader looking for ideas on what was out there that was cheap and unique. My search uncovered the Porsche 944. I’ve always thought the body was nice but didn’t know much else. They feature a 5spd rear transaxle which gives them 50/50 weight and therefore good handling. After a few weeks of surfing the net I’d basically determined that they are a nice body with woefully underpowered motors that break easily. And if you re-power them then the brakes and transaxles go next. And if the tranny doesn’t break then you never use 1st and wish you had a 6th because the ratios are setup for a little 2.5L high rev not a V8. There are stronger Porsche components that can be used but they come off the turbo models and are therefore rare and more expensive.

So I’m just going to toss the motor, the suspension, the brakes and the transaxle and put stuff in there that will hold up to V8 power, stay reliable and if it breaks cost nothing to repair. An LSX motor is a given. While I’d like to keep a rear transaxle there isn’t anything (that I can find) that meets my three criteria – affordable, 300hp stock, 68-ish wide. A Corvette rear is the obvious 1st choice but it’s out of my budget and too wide without modifications. BMW M3’s rear IRS can take 300hp but are costly also. So along the way I figured I’d bag the rear transaxle and just go conventional motor/trans in the front. There’s the Ford Explorer/Stang IRS but again – a little too rare and costly for my tastes.

If anyone has a suggestion I didn’t consider please let me know! For now I am thinking I will use the front and rear spindles/axle/brakes/suspension etc out of a Mustang GT (late 90’s or younger). I’ll get an aftermarket K member because there are a bunch of Mustangs with LSX conversions and there are bolt on solutions. So bear in mind when I say this I mean I am going to surgically remove the structural metal out of the donor Mustang as well as the suspension, then cut big holes in the poor little Porsche and graft all that s*** right in.

All that should take a couple of weekends (joking) and then on to the hard part – equipping the engine bay with a CARB legal LSX. This means cramming the unmodified GM factory motor, air intake system, vapor canister, headers, cats, and rumor has it – even the same fuel tank. I’m still a noob on learning all the stuff I need to know about the CARB angle but there are a few 944 LSX owners who have already done it. I am hoping that by grafting a different front end into the 944 (like off a Mustang or Z28) that the resulting interior dimensions of the engine bay will be more willing to let me stab an LSX with stock headers.

My 944 is an 86, red, sunroof, 2 owner, Carfax clean with no reported accidents. Mostly garaged. Broke motor. I pick it up in 2 weekends. First I have to buy a tow dolly. I’m going to be lugging 2 or maybe 3 cars home in the near future and I’m tired of renting tow dollys.

Re: Porsche 944: Actually there is a substitute
 

I should explain the title of my build thread. Back in the 80's Porsche had a slogan that went "Porsche. There is no substitute."

This slogan was made even more famous when it was used by Tom Cruise in the movie Risky Business. Here's the clip:
(That's not a 944 in the movie. I think its a 924 or 928 but I'm def not a Porsche guru.)

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I owned a 944 Turbo about ten years ago. They are really fun cars - when they run. Stuffing an LSX in there will be an awesome change. Good luck!
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I'm in!

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Here's the car and the PO. And a picture of what the engine bay looks like with the LSX in it.




Hee hee!

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Damn!!!!!

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OK let's get this party started!

Here's some shots from Saturday when I brought the new toy home. Halfbreed did a great job pulling her new rival down the freeway and I promised her I would get the tow dolly surge brakes fixed before the next tow happens.

I pulled into my house at about 10am and by noon I had the interior stripped. I think the PO actually hauled hay in the back. :uhmk:

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Highlights/1st impressions:

A shot of the "collector" for the drain water that comes off the rear hatch window and is supposed to drain down a passageway and into a tube and out the rear fender well. I briefly thought this might be the start of a stash of dope that would make me rich but alas is was only straw from the hay hauling.

Kudos to Porsche for their famous quality of body prep/paint. I had heard there would not be much rust and so far that is true. Very nice to work on a well protected car for a change.

Remind me never to get in a wreck in this Porsche. The seats are held in by teensy tiny screws instead of the USA style flanged bolts that I am familiar with. At first I thought "OK different strokes for different folks - it doesn't really matter as long as the seat BELTS and anchored separately." But guess what - the latch side is part of the seat!!

I don't like the shape of the seats but I do like the two handles. One is for sliding and the other is for tilting the seat back.

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A pile of straw infused carpet.

Oh if only the red paint were as bright and shiny dry as it is wet!

Starting to build a cart for the carcass of some of the donor vehicles. Also some cheap, wooden (yes that's right WOOD) DIY jack stands.

There's something about the sight of a partially covered project car that hints at the things to come. The 944 has some good body lines. The looks are there - just not the go part. But we'll be changing all of that soon enough! ;)

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Buy a whole C5/6 vette rolling chassis on ebay for 5-6k with LSX and rear trans! The vette is not too wide, the Porsche just needs to convinced to fit ;) :devil:

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http://www.broadfootracing.com/Gearhart_38.jpg
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...ue-flares2.jpg

Re: Porsche 944: Actually there is a substitute
 

Listen to this guy Flounder, he's in pre-med.

Seriously, this is a great idea. The widebody kit on the 944 looks choice!

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Hey! Are you guys playing cards?!

I definitely want some critical feedback and ideas about what I'm doing. So here's my reasoning for ruling out the vette equipment. a) Too much scratch for my budget and lifestyle. I'm hoping to come in around $5k total for all 2-3 vehicles that are in this mashup so the vette stuff busts my budget. And then when the vette stuff wears (brake pads, bushings for example) it's spendy. b) I'm trying to stay away from exterior body work on this project. Halfbreed kinda kicked my ass. So the vette suspension would require either the body kit for the Porsche or, expensive machining time to shorten the axles. c) Replacement parts for the vette suspension are just as spendy as leaving the Porsche parts on there.

So with that being said I sort of crossed off the vette option and then moved on to looking for IRS but no rear transaxle. The only domestic vehicle that I am aware of (that can take 300 rwhp reliably) is the Mustang/Explorer IRS but maybe I am overlooking something? There are Euro and Asian cars with beefy IRS but they too are expensive to acquire and expensive to repair when they wear/break.

Re: Porsche 944: Actually there is a substitute
 

Check out a Mark VIII and 89-up T bird IRS. Those have an 8.8 center section, and you can probably buy the whole car for under $1k for a Mark. Instead of using an LS, you could use the 4.6 DOHC engine in that. Seems like those were rated around 300 HP also.

Re: Porsche 944: Actually there is a substitute
 

At that point I crossed IRS off and the next logical choice was to harvest the front and rear suspension off the donor Z28/Firebird that has the LSX. The economics of this is tempting because with just one more vehicle purchase I get all of the donor equipment for suspension, brakes and power train. However...

I'm not sure if the GM swing arms on the rear axle will migrate into the Porsche chassis as "easily" as a Mustang rear axle will. The Porsche has a torsion bar with swing arms that sort of resembles the Ford 4-bar geometry and at this early stage I am thinking that the anchor points for a Ford 4-bar will be right about where the Porsche chassis structure is beefed up for the OE torsion bar.

That's about where I'm at so far - just dreaming and thinking for now. Once I strip the Porsche power train and suspension off the 944 I will take some pics and measurements and then make a trip to the wrecking yard and start comparing GM/Camaro and Ford/Mustang suspensions to see if there is a clear, compelling matchup that I think will graft better into the Porsche.

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Maybe a newer GTO?

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Solstice IRS. It uses a CTS diff. You might get away with just a CTS (non-V) diff or go to the V - Would need some research.

Looks like Mallet might use the stock diff (maybe just a ratio change?) Some good reading here and here.

Another thought; Keep the 944 rear suspension and simply replace the transaxle with a CTS/Solstice diff and axles..!

As far as widening the body. we all know you have the skills not to have to buy anything buy consumables to make that happen ;)

Don't forget about the insurance auto auction houses like copart and iaai for your parts car procurement.

...and dome Solstice Porn:
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/atta...solchassis.jpg

http://www.solsticeforum.com/photopo...spension_2.jpg

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Dang! Solstice wheelbase is 95.1" and the 944 is 94.5". I should do this Halfbreed style and just shave the body off a Solstice and tuck the chassis up into the Porsche. Drive it with the Solstice motor for awhile.

Now I just need to find a wrecked Solstice where all that they damaged was the roof!

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Now yer talkin! Or one with a blown engine in need of an LSX :metal:

Using one donor/make will ease the challenge of meeting CARB standards.

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Copart

and IAAI

Don't forget to include the Saturn Sky in your search.

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Guess that would be hard to find seeing as how a Solstice doesn't have a roof. Doh! :lol:

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Damaged top wouldn't save you much there, no :)

Another approach to consider (briefly mentioned earlier) would be keeping the 944 swing-arm IRS and just mounting a donor IRS diff (many to choose from) in place of the Porsche transaxle. Run your LSX with a conventional trans/drive-line back to it. Easy-Money.

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After having an early CTS-V with the plain 6 cylinder aluminum diff, I wouldn't bother swapping one of those in. The 06-07 V's used an iron center section. The early ones were prone to failure. The one in my car was howling like mad when I got it at 30K.

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sparky and Frizzle,

I have admired your work since I first stumbled across it. I spent (not wasted) several days looking at the Minx re-pop. Fabulous work. Now, as for that movie clip, that car looks awfully like a 928, the car that Porsche designed purely for the US market. They knew that Yanks liked a V8 in front, driving the rear wheels, so the 928 was the result.

From his book, "Corvette from the Inside" Dave McLellan says, "With its water-cooled, front mounted V-8 engine, rear transaxle, and two-plus-two seating, it represented Porsche's direction for the future. Unfortunately, it had none of the nimble, sharp, and aggressive feel of the 911, which had propelled Porsche to a position of eminence in the sports car market."

Dave drew on many of the 928's features when he designed the C4, including the torque tube that linked the trans to the diff.

A friend on mine in Australia has a right hand drive 928 with the factory three speed auto transaxle and is toying with the idea of replacing the engine when it dies with an LSx but is unsure whether to go with an easily obtainable engine mounted transmission (from a Holden Commodore V8 passenger car) with a Holden IRS diff, or try to find a transaxle that will handle the power.

An engine mounted trans will involve widening the tunnel, which will probably mean that different seats will be needed, etc. And then where does it stop?

As a coincidence, one of his sons has two 944s, both autos, and is in the process of restoring the better car with parts from the other. Once I show Roy this site, I think he'll be a regular observer, for both his and his son's cars.

Keep up the good, no, EXCELLENT work!

Regards from Down Under. :gmc2:

aussiejohn

Re: Porsche 944: Actually there is a substitute
 

Thanks very much aussiejohn! I hope I can live up to your kind words. Here is the primary site I have been using that specializes in 944 LSX conversions.
http://944hybrids.forumotion.com/

There are one or two others as well.

There are also some threads on
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids-28/
that deal with 944 LSX (Holden) issues.

And if you want to get a feel for how many problems and issues there are with a stock 944 just browse through this place...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...chnical-forum/

These poor guys have to spend $1,000's to keep their cars running. But then again that's what made the car appear on my radar and allows them to be so cheap to acquire.

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During the past week I finished off the carcass dolly. I also went hi-tech and fabbed up some conduit stunt struts so I could keep the hatch of the 944 open without risk to my life (it's heavy). Get used to seeing conduit bracing because it's going to play a main role in my suspension grafting activities later on!

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I promised myself that before I pulled the motor out of the 944 I would create some kind of ride height & wheel location reference gage so here are some shots of what I did. I'm not sure I will need it later on but I didn't want to discover later on that I wished I'd done something like this after it was too late.

I even gave the gages names so I wouldn't forget them!

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Then it was on to the fun stuff - motor extraction!

Apparently there is a Hatfield/McCoy thing with the 944 crowd on whether tis best to extract out the top or the bottom. I went for the top style. Along the way I noticed that it's a good thing I never intended to drive it as a stock 944 because it was missing motor mount bolts, 1 out of 4 crossmember bolts and the front sway bar was askew on the one side.

By Friday eve I had the top side prepped and was ready early Saturday morning for what I expected was going to be a simple completion of the final steps. But the Porsche had other plans - turns out the motor is seized so I could not disconnect the flex plate. 4 hours later I emerged the victor but along the way I had to drop the cross member, loosen the rack and pinion, remove the DS wheel, drop the DS shock tower and control arm and to a whole lot of wiggling. I lost track of all time. The place looked like a war zone. But - the damn thing is out now. :metal:

Can you spot the boat anchor in the last picture?

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Next I cleaned up and re-positioned the 944 for rear-end surgery. I spy a transaxle!

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Today's example of quirky German engineering: there are no junction connectors on any of the harnesses. For example - the engine harness is basically a branch off the main vehicle harness. So if you want to pull the motor you have to disconnect ALL motor devices (fuel injectors, oil pressure switch, alternator, AC the list goes on) and then snake all the wires out/off the motor because Brother there ain't no engine sub-harness!

Verrrrrry interesting!

But schtupid.

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I forgot to mention that before marking locations on the gages I put the 944 hood, seats, battery, spare tire, et cetera back on the car. No idea how much gas was in the tank but will find out soon enough when I pull it out.

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:metal::metal::metal::metal: