Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

I need a trans to go behind my very mild 383. After pulling the engine the 700R4 started leaking badly. I don't know if it's a sign or not. I thought at first that maybe it was the angle it was sitting at but nope. It is damn near parallel to the pavement. It was already starting to leak at the tailshaft and the bushing in the tail housing seems to be shot as well. Someone rebuilt the 700 but I don't know if they had a clue as to how to do it. The shifts are inconsistent and shifting into drive or reverse it bangs into gear hard. The fluid is nice and clean no burnt smell but I wonder if it will even handle the new powerplant. Rated at 280hp/388tq. So we are talking about a big jump from the stock engine. Also the 700R4 doesn't actually belong in this truck it's supposed to have the 4l60e trans in it.

So who here has a 4L60E stage 2 from BowtieOD. Was it worth it did it last and what did you put it behind?

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

I am going to be the hands on experienced voice of adversity here.

From both my contact with these things, and of others of my friends that bought into the BTO con job, they just ain't worth it.

Some years ago, a friend of mine bought a complete 700R4 BTO "kit" for his 1965 small block El Camino. Upon attempted installation, their supposedly perfect modified cross member, DID NOT FIT, and I had to alter it to get the trans mount pad in the right place, so the trans case wouldn't be forced into the underside of the trans tunnel. They said there never was a problem with any other one they had made, and the truck had NO mount mods to the chassis/engine mounts, nor the stock PowerGlide cross member.

After getting the trans in, we wanted to know how go set the kick down cable up, and called BTO. This was while the original BTO founder was still alive, before his son took over the company. All we got was that if WE didn't set the cable and its arc travel up, they wouldn't warranty the trans, not "IF", but when it blew up, and did not add any set up info at all, not even over the phone, nor in with the trans kit documentation. We were virtually left to our own devices. So, we went down to Don Steves Chevy, in La Habra, Ca., and asked the hundred year old auto trans guy what the deal was in setting the 700R4 cable up.

He copied the page for us, straight from the factory GM chassis manual that shows the correct "orientation" for the cable, and we went back and did same. Trans then worked OK, nothing to write home about.

Some months later, when I was vending at Long Beach Swap Meet, he had his BTO booth there, and I slipped over to speak with him, told him of our issues, and the issues of many others that had the same problems and concerns with other of his installs, especially the cable pull info. A month later, I get this bracket set from him, asking to take a look at it, and give my impressions. He as n the basic right track, and that setup became the kit for the cable you purchase from his son at BTO today.

One shop in Whittier, Ca., Lime Works, used two if BTO's transmissions on very high end cars hey built from scratch, with really bad results. After that, Lie Works then used "The Toy Shop" (Ontario/Pomona, Ca.), built 700R4 transmissions, without issue/problems.

BTO, for my money, NOPE.

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

The 4l60E or 65E is just a slightly better version, and electronically controlled T700R4.

I would swap one in before a T700R4 for the better control of the lock-up convertor, but it is not a deal breaker.

What year is the truck, and was it converted to a carb from fuel injection.

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

It's a 93 GMC, factory fuel injection. So if I replace the trans it will be with the 4l60e. I could try repairing the 700R4 but I have no clue about what was done to it or if it would hold up.

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

Nobody else?

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

Find a capable local builder. There is no special recipe that BTO has, but there is a recipe to make 700's handle power.

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

Mail ordering transmissions is a BIG risk. I rarely ship transmissions, When I do..... I put them in a vehicle & test them first.

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

Yeah I just haven't found anyone around here with a core to build. I don't have a core 4l60e. I also have no clue who is reputable in this area either.

I hate to take the chance that it doesn't work or that won't be as advertised when I receive it. I may have no other options.

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

I keep calling shops and either they won't do a bench job for me or they charge too much. The last place I called didn't even answer the phone.

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

At the recommendation of a reliable friend I took my 235K 700R4 to a trans shop in Covina, Calif. He hadn't actually had work done there, but he thought they were good from the times he visited when he was doing work FOR them. My trans was a virgin case and had never been worked on. I cleaned all the grime off the case before I delivered it to them to work on. The owner insisted that they paint it with cheap silver paint that looked like a toddler sprayed it on. The case was chewed up around the governor cover where they removed the original cover. It should have been a warning, but I gave them the benefit of doubt. The trans lasted less than 100 miles. :^(
I decided I'd spend extra money for a BTO trans. They have a process where they clean the case and they do NOT paint the case claiming that it aids in cooling. Perhaps. The silver paint on my (1st) rebuilt trans seemed to show blistering in spots. I was much more impressed with BTO than the first shop. I read their literature and made sure I pressure tested the trans before I started working my truck. So far, so good. I'm happy with my BTO trans.

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

Do you have a race track near you? Dirt circle or drag strip? If you do have one, go on a test and tune night, make friends with some of the drivers and ask where they have their transmissions built at. Usually there's only a few guys in a 100 mile radius that everyone will take their race/drag cars to. Often it's a small shop behind their house. These guys are very meticulous and know how to build a trans, otherwise the race guys wouldn't be using 'em. Since they work with racers, they usually end up doing bench jobs all day long... Might not be cheap but chances are it will be done right. Just explain what you want.

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

Pheonix Trans is in Weatherford Texas.

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

I called a place and found some advice but I still need a core. So I listed my 700R4 for sale or trade. Got a call but the 4l60e he has is from a 96 Vette. So alas I am still on the hunt. Finding a decent core that is the correct year 93 or 94 isn't easy. I have been told others can be made to work and the differences are PWM and the 2-3 solenoid on the newer ones. I could possibly use a 95 but I would have to stake the pwm plunger in the valve body or I would not get (or fully get) lockup. It's a little confusing after awhile I forget which ones had what and have to go back and look again.

I have looked at Phoenix Trans their price is a little out of my budget. I am honestly looking to stay at 1800 total for this deal. I see this as being completely doable. That would be including shipping and torque convertor. I am not drag racing this truck. It's a daily driver with the umph the factory should have given it.

I need a decent trans that will last behind a 383 w/ 300hp/400ft-lbs........ For the above mentioned amount. Keep in mind I don't tow anything there isn't even a hitch on the truck and I rarely haul anything over a couple hundred pounds in the bed of it atleast until my wife kicks me out for spending too much money on this whole truck LOL.

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

I feel ya OrangeAnimal, When I was looking, I looked at Phoenix Trans, BTO, and Transmissionenter.net who is in your neck of the woods. Transmissioncenter.net has a reaptor JR. 700r for $2043 holding 500hp and 400tq or a level 1 700r holding 350hp and 300tq, ya might want to check them out but they are 5 1/2 hrs from you.

I just said screw it and bought a 2011 5.3 with 6 speed that I need to get in now!

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

One other option, there is a guy in Galveston TX who owns Island Transmission who has a rep there and quoted me $2250 fro a 700r with shift kit and all the goodies plus install.

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

The last thing you want to do is what I did. I got my truck running and had to replace the trans in the first hundred miles. I thought I could get away with a budget rebuild. I learned. Spend good money up front so you don't have to spend more later. BTO seems to have a good rep and I'm happy to do business with them.

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

Yeah I have looked at transmissioncenter.net I have actually done business with them in the past. They do fine work and I had no issues with the trans. I don't think I got the best deal. I have been thinking about several other builders. I looked at Monster but everytime I see reviews I cringe.

I have looked up most of the parts I would like in the transmission and I come up with about 450-500 bux for all the parts then everything after that would be labor etc. So... honestly if I had a core and the tools needed I would build it myself. I used to work many years ago right beside a guy who built transmissions all day long. I installed every trans he built at our shop. Hew was getting about 250 bux to bench build one.

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

I actually have a (2wd) core that was used as parts for the first rebuild on my K-trans. It's a basket case now that is two thousand miles away...not much help for you though...

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

i went with phoenixtrans.com for a 700r4 behind a ramjet 350, 350hp / 400ftlb
20,000 pain free miles on it, including some serious tire burning sessions :D
it was a well spent $1400 in my eyes, it's now $1800
i know nothing about aod's and wanted one that lasts

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

The 4l60E from phoenixtrans is 2418 bux! That's steep no matter where else I have shopped for a slightly modified 4l60E. I am also thinking about calling Monster Trans up. I know they have had some terrible reviews on the web and people can say anything. I believe there are so many variables it's hard to say what's what. Either way I am talking to everyone I can about the trans and have gathered tons of info. I spoke with a local guy and for a stock build he wanted 1400 plus cost of the converter and then tax on top of that. So that's not a huge help. He didn't seem very willing to do any "performance" jobs though either. I also tried calling up FLT yesterday and no one answered. They supposedly have a good rep from what I have found so far.

Re: Bowtie Overdrives? Worth it?
 

OrangeAnimal --- Who did you eventually go with and hows it going so far?

Thanks