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-   -   Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=800471)

Andy4639 01-31-2020 04:52 PM

Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
4 Attachment(s)
I hope this will make things a little clearer on this swap.

The trucks stock alternator and external regulator have always been a weak spot for these trucks if you add many electrical accessories to them, The stock alternator was a 37amp which was plenty for a plain truck. But who leaves their truck to plain??:lol::lol::lol:

Anyway I hope this clear's up some of the confusion and questions on this swap.

Take the stock alternator off the truck and replace which ever you decide to use. I like the 1985 Buick Riviera, 5.0L (307Y engine), with Heavy Duty options and Air Conditioning.
This mod doesn't require any new wiring. It just re positions what's already there.

Ok for the choices you have for the install.

Picture #1 is what you start with.
Picture #2 is with the jumpers @ the regulator used.
Picture #3 is stripping the harness cover back and running the brown & red wire straight to the alternator. Much cleaner install.
Both ways work fine and as Vette has stated before, the system works as it's suppose to from the factory.

There is another option that works but it doesn't use the system feature of sensing voltage drop and kicking up the voltage. So I'm not going to address it here.
Side note.
This mod works for 50,60 & 70 model GM cars as well.
If you have any question on this mod please feel free to ask but keep the questions to this mod only.
:chevy:

toolboxchev 02-03-2020 12:13 AM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
Thing I am having an issue with is I cannot find the thread which shows which light on the dash and wire therefore, is the resistor wire.

VV mentions somewhere in one of these threads about installing a failsafe off the keyed switch just in case the bulb goes out.

Which bulb on the dash is he speaking of? Of course I am inquiring about the 7 gauge panel.

Andy4639 02-03-2020 10:29 AM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by toolboxchev (Post 8671548)
Thing I am having an issue with is I cannot find the thread which shows which light on the dash and wire therefore, is the resistor wire.

VV mentions somewhere in one of these threads about installing a failsafe off the keyed switch just in case the bulb goes out.

Which bulb on the dash is he speaking of? Of course I am inquiring about the 7 gauge panel.


The red light under the gas gauge. The brown wire is the resistor wire. The only thing I know of is for the newer CS style alternator's not this one. :chevy:

toolboxchev 02-03-2020 11:23 AM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
There is 2 red lights under the gas gauge to my understanding. Yes, Andy, the brown wire. I worry about that bulb or the printed circuit going out leaving me with a new issue, and costs.

I am redoing a new underdash used harness, as the leaks I used to have left me with a never ending mess.

maverickmk 02-15-2020 07:56 PM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
If I understand this correctly, the red wires that connect to the plug and the small bolt on the back of the alternator also connect to each other?
What is the white wire (18 B/W?) with the fuse and the black wire engine harness with the fuse? Are those stock wires or something I need to add as well? I'm referring this picture.

https://i.imgur.com/3pWQ18c.jpg

Andy4639 02-16-2020 06:09 PM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by maverickmk (Post 8679066)
If I understand this correctly, the red wires that connect to the plug and the small bolt on the back of the alternator also connect to each other?
What is the white wire (18 B/W?) with the fuse and the black wire engine harness with the fuse? Are those stock wires or something I need to add as well? I'm referring this picture.

https://i.imgur.com/3pWQ18c.jpg

The 2 black wires with the 2 small 4 amp fuses are stock original for the amp-meter to work. They stay as they are.
The red wires do connect to each other in the wiring harness. But don't jumper them at the alternator plug.
This want give you the correct reading.

The picture shows the stock bulk connector that is up by the drivers side head light. The bigger red wire goes to the bolt on the back of the alternator. The smaller red wire that was connected to the external regulator now goes to the #2 terminal.
The brown wire that was connected to the external Regulator now goes straight to the #1 on the alternator.
The white wire is terminated and not used.
You should run the small black ground wire over to the alternator also.

maverickmk 02-16-2020 08:32 PM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy4639 (Post 8679591)
The 2 black wires with the 2 small 4 amp fuses are stock original for the amp-meter to work. They stay as they are.
The red wires do connect to each other in the wiring harness. But don't jumper them at the alternator plug.
This want give you the correct reading.

The picture shows the stock bulk connector that is up by the drivers side head light. The bigger red wire goes to the bolt on the back of the alternator. The smaller red wire that was connected to the external regulator now goes to the #2 terminal.
The brown wire that was connected to the external Regulator now goes straight to the #1 on the alternator.
The white wire is terminated and not used.
You should run the small black ground wire over to the alternator also.

Okay, that makes it a little clearer. I cut the brown & red wires at the old regulator and plan to use those to connect to the plug on the alternator. Is that correct? The wires that were on the back of the old alternator were blue & black, if memory serves me correctly.

VetteVet 02-17-2020 02:48 AM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by maverickmk (Post 8679654)
Okay, that makes it a little clearer. I cut the brown & red wires at the old regulator and plan to use those to connect to the plug on the alternator. Is that correct? The wires that were on the back of the old alternator were blue & black, if memory serves me correctly.




Yes you are correct and all you need is this connector that you can get at most of the auto parts stores. about 5 buck if I remember.
Just use butt connectors or solder the red to red and brown to brown so that the plug connects the brown wire to no.1 and the red to no. 2.

The two wires were 16 gauge dark blue and 16 gauge white from the regulator.; You wont need those anymore. VV


Attachment 1983470

maverickmk 02-17-2020 09:26 AM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by VetteVet (Post 8679781)
Yes you are correct and all you need is this connector that you can get at most of the auto parts stores. about 5 buck if I remember.
Just use butt connectors or solder the red to red and brown to brown so that the plug connects the brown wire to no.1 and the red to no. 2.

The two wires were 16 gauge dark blue and 16 gauge white from the regulator.; You wont need those anymore. VV


Attachment 1983470

I already have that connector hooked up. Thanks Andy & VetteVet for the help, I really appreciate it.

Andy4639 02-17-2020 09:39 AM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
Your welcome. Let us know how it turns out.:chevy:

maverickmk 02-17-2020 08:40 PM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy4639 (Post 8679853)
Your welcome. Let us know how it turns out.:chevy:

Will do. Right now I'm experiencing a "little" project creep ;) It was originally supposed to be get it mechanically sound and drive it. Just like all my other projects, I got the while I'm here bug. Also, I want to do it once and be done with it. I installed relays for the headlights (GMC) and of course decided that the buckets needed to be replaced, which of course requires new springs and adjusters. Then, while I was there I might as well upgrade to the newer style headlights . . . chick-pona-nona-wana.

I picked up these little boogers from Amazon delivered today, as well new copper connectors. I just wanted to upgrade the alternator! :banghead:

https://i.imgur.com/ePvjLSv.jpg

studeclunker 03-12-2020 09:43 PM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
Okay, If I have this right, to bypass the external Regulator, I connect the blue and yellow wires coming out of my Alternator to the red and brown wires, respectively, in the Regulator plug. This permits the Internally-regulated Alternator to take over for the original external Regulator and my battery should charge?

Andy4639 03-12-2020 10:27 PM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by studeclunker (Post 8693766)
Okay, If I have this right, to bypass the external Regulator, I connect the blue and yellow wires coming out of my Alternator to the red and brown wires, respectively, in the Regulator plug. This permits the Internally-regulated Alternator to take over for the original external Regulator and my battery should charge?


You should have the red wire at the external regulator jumped to the blue wire that goes back to the alternator. Marked #1
The brown wire @ the external regulator jumped to the white going to the alternator. marked #2

PS, the wire colors really don't matter as long as you jumper them to the right spot. I don't know where you got the yellow wire from???


Per this drawing.
:chevy:

studeclunker 03-13-2020 12:58 AM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
Sorry, I stripped back the casing and found what was once white is now yellow. Kind of like old men's teeth, which I know altogether too well!

studeclunker 03-13-2020 05:22 PM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
okay, smoke under the dash. Black wire with white stripe. Have I got something reversed? My Alternator is a bit different from the earlier pictured model. That's a new plug from FLAPS. The blue wire shown connects to the white harness wire and the black connects to the blue harness wire. As per how the previous stock plug was.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...4dbbd61a85.jpg

Andy4639 03-13-2020 10:23 PM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by studeclunker (Post 8694219)
okay, smoke under the dash. Black wire with white stripe. Have I got something reversed? My Alternator is a bit different from the earlier pictured model. That's a new plug from FLAPS. The blue wire shown connects to the white harness wire and the black connects to the blue harness wire. As per how the previous stock plug was.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...4dbbd61a85.jpg

I'm sorry but I'm not following you with your wire colors. You are gonna have to strip the harness from the old external regulator. Then wire it like the drawings. I don't know what you have and your picture doesn't show me anything. The plastic connector is marked 1&2 and the wires must go to the right spots no matter what color they are. :chevy:

toolboxchev 03-14-2020 04:15 AM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
If you have smoke under the dash there is more than meets the eye. Read my thread wanting help please in this forum.

I have had both heater switch issues and ignition switch issues for the last couple years. Just this last time out the big brown wire(heater) and large purple wire had melted through each other and I was driving down the road when the starter engaged.

Ignition switch cooked next far as I can tell.

studeclunker 03-14-2020 01:18 PM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by toolboxchev (Post 8694565)
If you have smoke under the dash there is more than meets the eye. Read my thread wanting help please in this forum.

I have had both heater switch issues and ignition switch issues for the last couple years. Just this last time out the big brown wire(heater) and large purple wire had melted through each other and I was driving down the road when the starter engaged.

Ignition switch cooked next far as I can tell.

I looked that one over before posting here. I don't understand the relevance? Must be missing something?

toolboxchev 03-14-2020 02:08 PM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by studeclunker (Post 8694786)
I looked that one over before posting here. I don't understand the relevance? Must be missing something?

Smoke under the dash means something burned. It would be wise to strip the harness of the black tape and look for burned wires. That discoloring you see in the thread posted by Andy means overheating, overamperage of the wiring system.

Sometimes you can get away with it. Other times it leads to problems down the road as in my system. I have had to replace the Heater Harness, Heater Switch, Ignition Switch over 3 times in the last couple years.

I am sick of it, my electrical buddy informs me if you feed the system more power an electrical motor will demand that from the system. As in Heater on High, unregulated load. Another words, you will pull more amps through the system than the wiring will handle. Especially if you put in a higher amp alternator. If you put in a bigger guage wire in combo with the higher amp alternator this compounds the matter. Stock gauge wiring acts as a restrictor (i.e. smaller water pipe) to only allow a certain amperage to flow through it.

This specifically applies in my situation due to having a externally regulated alternator. The regulator allows it to push out more amps than an internally regulated unit IF I am correct.

I carry a fire extinguisher in my cab just in case.

studeclunker 03-14-2020 03:18 PM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
The Studebaker Driver's Club has pushed carrying an extinguisher for years. I have one in each of mine. However I haven't yet equipped this truck with one and really should.

This isn't the first burned wire in this system, I've replaced quite a few. Ground wires also. I was wondering where the latest burned wire went as it helps knowing which circuit is overloading.

However, I need to get this truck going as everything else has no brakes and I needed to move a trailer up the mountain. Looks like no trailer up the mountain (due to this current issue) as we are looking at two weeks of snow up there.

Can we spell f-r-u-s-t-r-a-t-e-d?:rolleyes:

toolboxchev 03-15-2020 02:31 AM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
I would start tracing all the main feeds. Both under the hood and under the dash. They are all 12 gauge, Red and pink for feeds, heater is run by a brown one, and the solenoid is purple.

Under dash harness is easier to trace by removing in one unit. You will most likely find that easier to remove by also removing the dash gauge cluster. From there tracing all the wires will be much easier.

Checking continuity and resistance is a good idea at this point. Most of the old contact points on the crimp connectors.

It is tedious, most guys get too frustrated and just buy a 4-6 hundred dollar replacement. I found 3 old harnesses for 80 bucks and used the good parts, wires from them.

Almost got mine running today, have to check my flywheel for out of round then shim the starter appropriately adding a starter brace.

Oh, and yea, my nerves are pretty cooked right now.

studeclunker 03-15-2020 03:12 PM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
I have been considering a new wiring harness for under the dash. However, must confess being lazy and cowardly about the whole thing. It's a project I've done in the Studebakers a number of times for much the same issue. Having the modular approach Chevy takes on wiring makes the job easier. However a Studebaker harness is half the price.

However I must straighten out this issue with my Alternator first. Can't do that till it stops raining, hailing, and snowing by turns.

studeclunker 03-20-2020 04:27 PM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
Thanks for the help! All better now, I hope!

franken 03-20-2020 05:50 PM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
Regarding post #19... "The regulator allows it to push out more amps than an internally regulated unit IF I am correct."

No, not correct. The load draws current depending on it's current needs at X voltage (current increases with voltage). The source doesn't push current. A new style alternator may regulate the voltage at a higher value, allowing more current at X load though. With wiring in decent shape the difference shouldn't be an issue.

One issue is bad wiring/connections that act as heaters, which can cause problems but this is true regardless of the alternatore/regulator combination.

toolboxchev 03-21-2020 11:57 AM

Re: Stock alternator to 12 SI alternator
 
Thanks for clarification, and it is also what I suspect, that would be correct from electrical theory. My personal issue is different than the OP. My wiring (original) is cleaned up nice!

I read somewhere that the internally regulated alt units have better control of the voltages. If you looked at the next gen of trucks with HEI they have internally regulated units.

Crankshaft coalition wiki site says HEI modules do not like high voltage spikes.


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