1963 C10 Bogging Under Heavy Throttle

[csermonet47]

Hey guys, new guy here. Picked up a 63 C10 a few weeks ago and have been trying to get it running right. I was hoping you guys could give me some new suggestions on stuff to check.

It has a 230 in it with a Rochester B.

What I have done:

-Rebuilt the carb (99.9% sure I got it right)
-Set the point gap and made sure the contacts were good
-New Plugs and wires
-New Distributor
-Drained out gas tank and confirmed it was clean in there
-Cleaned out fuel lines and replaced some of them
-New Fuel Pump
-New Fuel Filter
-Properly Timed

Here is the truck:



It runs fine when choked, but when the choke is off, mashing the pedal makes it bog and it loses power real bad for a second, then it gets back on its feet and revs up fine. When it bogs it will sometimes backfire or shut off. I messed with the air/fuel screw to see if it just wasn't getting enough fuel, but even backed all the way out it still bogs. While it is running better than when I got it, it still isn't right. Any suggestions on what to check next?

Thanks in advance,
Ryan

[j.kirn]

vacuum leak somewhere

[csermonet47]

Thank you for the suggestion. I forgot to mention that I replaced the line from the hard line to the vacuum advance and still doing the same thing. The vacuum advance is actuating as it should. It idles just about perfect too. Still sound like vacuum?

[j.kirn]

check gasket along intake manifold, base of carb

[aerotruk63]

Get a Vacuum Gauge, it's the original diagnostic tool.

http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/186.cfm

[geezer#99]

Heat riser blade stuck! Or not there!

[boucher racing]

Originally Posted by csermonet47

Hey guys, new guy here. Picked up a 63 C10 a few weeks ago and have been trying to get it running right. I was hoping you guys could give me some new suggestions on stuff to check.

It has a 230 in it with a Rochester B.

What I have done:

-Rebuilt the carb (99.9% sure I got it right)
-Set the point gap and made sure the contacts were good
-New Plugs and wires
-New Distributor
-Drained out gas tank and confirmed it was clean in there
-Cleaned out fuel lines and replaced some of them
-New Fuel Pump
-New Fuel Filter
-Properly Timed

Here is the truck:



It runs fine when choked, but when the choke is off, mashing the pedal makes it bog and it loses power real bad for a second, then it gets back on its feet and revs up fine. When it bogs it will sometimes backfire or shut off. I messed with the air/fuel screw to see if it just wasn't getting enough fuel, but even backed all the way out it still bogs. While it is running better than when I got it, it still isn't right. Any suggestions on what to check next?

Thanks in advance,
Ryan

Cool truck, what's the back story?

Hope you get it running right

Boucher'
Posted via Mobile Device

[factorystock]

Originally Posted by csermonet47

-
-New Distributor
-

It might be how the new distributor was installed. Was #1 piston a TDC ? Was rotor pointing to #1 position on cap? When new distributors are installed the bottom blade slides into oil pump slot. Many times the oil pump slot does not line up with rotor pointing at #1. In that case use your old distributor, pull the cam gear off, put the old distributor back in, then line up oil pump slot to the correct position for the new distributor. Also, I recommend new points and a new condensor if they were not included with the new distributor.

[joedoh]

I know you said the timing is set correctly but maybe give it a scootch more advance and see what that does.


edit: nice W123

[csermonet47]

Thank you for the suggestions everyone! Keep 'em coming. I am out of town, but when I get home in a few days I will try everything mentioned.

Originally Posted by j.kirn

check gasket along intake manifold, base of carb

I will check out the manifold for leaks. The gasket where the carb meets the intake manifold is new from when I rebuilt the carb, but I will still check that out.

Originally Posted by aerotruk63

Get a Vacuum Gauge, it's the original diagnostic tool.

http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/186.cfm

Probably something I should add to my arsenal anyways. Thank you!

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Heat riser blade stuck! Or not there!

I don't know what that is, but I will look into it!

Originally Posted by factorystock

It might be how the new distributor was installed. Was #1 piston a TDC ? Was rotor pointing to #1 position on cap? When new distributors are installed the bottom blade slides into oil pump slot. Many times the oil pump slot does not line up with rotor pointing at #1. In that case use your old distributor, pull the cam gear off, put the old distributor back in, then line up oil pump slot to the correct position for the new distributor. Also, I recommend new points and a new condenser if they were not included with the new distributor.

The previous owner did the distributor so I do not have the old one, but I can try to do this. I just need to be at the truck to visualize it. Condenser and points look new as well, but they are cheap so I could just throw some in for piece of mind.

Originally Posted by joedoh

I know you said the timing is set correctly but maybe give it a scootch more advance and see what that does.


edit: nice W123

I will give it a whirl when I get home. At this point I am willing to try just about anything. Thanks man! That is my daily. It has been a good car.

Originally Posted by boucher racing

Cool truck, what's the back story?

Hope you get it running right

Boucher'
Posted via Mobile Device

Thanks man! I suppose this can be sort of introduction thread. After seeing some of the trucks coming out of Hale's Speed Shop,



I decided I wanted to get a 63 C10. I think it has all the best features of the early trucks and the best features of the later trucks all in one. I had a nice little list of what I wanted. Original as possible, straight as possible, little to no structural rust, SWB, and fleetside. I had been searching my local Craigslist everyday for a few months and it popped up I got it about a month ago from down in Macon. It was a one owner up until October of last year. It was used as a farm truck its whole life and was used to haul hay and take trash to the dump. 59,000 supposedly original miles. Only a couple pea sized holes in the floor boards and no body filler on the truck. I figured it was about as close to my list as I was gonna find for how close it was. They parked it in 2003 and it sat until it was sold to the second owner. The second owner got it and did a little tune up to it (brakes, speedo cable, plugs, wires, distributor, fuel filter) and lost motivation. Called the guy probably 3 times a day with no answer for 4 days or so. Figured it had sold. He called me back and told me to come on down to see it. He ended up being really nice and a manager of an F-15 squad at the local Air-force base. Drove down to Macon (about 2.5 hours away) to go check it out. He had it in the corner of his backyard which was mostly just a mud pit since it was raining all day. The battery was dead so he brought his truck around to give it a jump. Ended up getting his truck stuck and a couple hours and several stuck vehicles later, we got the C10 out of the backyard. Went for a test spin and everything was well so I bought it. Riding at night with broken headlight adjusters, no seatbelts, no power steering, no power brakes, no taillights, constantly losing power, and wiper blades that just smear water definitely made for an interesting ride. Currently trying to get it road worthy, but I want to tear it down and make it my own.

I have been into 80s-90s european stuff mostly but just want to get into some older American stuff. Wanted to expand my skill set and learn some more stuff. Never dealt with carbs or anything like that in the past. Hoping to get into some welding classes and get some fabrication skills. Kinda had a hankering for a shoebox Ford but ended up deciding to do a C10.

Not sure if anyone here is a BMW person, but here is my E30 which is my fun car. Going to be selling it to fund the truck build is the plan.





I swapped an M30B35 into it out of a 5 series.



The W123 is my daily. I bought a euro parts car and swapped all the euro bits over.



And that is the current stable. 21 and going to school so gotta keep the other stuff at home and work on it on the weekends. Sorry to bore you guys to death with my life story, but now you know

I will snag some more pictures of the truck when I get a chance.

[joedoh]

I was in the BMWCCA for 15 years. Had a couple, 74 2002, 76 2002, 74 2002, 72 2002tii, 85 325e, 85 323i, 92 318is, 98 318i, 88 535is (owned 12 years and 283k, replaced everything twice)

There was a euro W123 Mercedes 200 on the local craigslist, same color as your t, I fought like hell to go running over with cash. The final straw for me was my highway commute and the 4 spd trans.

[csermonet47]

Originally Posted by joedoh

I was in the BMWCCA for 15 years. Had a couple, 74 2002, 76 2002, 74 2002, 72 2002tii, 85 325e, 85 323i, 92 318is, 98 318i, 88 535is (owned 12 years and 283k, replaced everything twice)

There was a euro W123 Mercedes 200 on the local craigslist, same color as your t, I fought like hell to go running over with cash. The final straw for me was my highway commute and the 4 spd trans.

Nice! Quite the collection you have had there. A week after I got my W123, a euro one with manual transmission popped up for around the same price. But yes, highway rpms are not the greatest. It is perfect for having at school though.

So I sprayed some WD40 around the intake manifold while it was cold and running to see if it would indicate a vacuum leak and I got nothing. I haven't checked with a gauge yet though. Think I could still have one somewhere?

I looked on LMC and it looks like there isn't a heat riser for the 230. I don't really see any info anywhere on a heat riser for the 230.

I am messing with the timing now. I painted the notch on the balancer red so I could see it better and I am not seeing it at all. Is it possible the balancer is mounted in the wrong position? It is possible my timing has been off the whole time?

[Irishbleueyes]

Originally Posted by csermonet47

Hey guys, new guy here. Picked up a 63 C10 a few weeks ago and have been trying to get it running right. I was hoping you guys could give me some new suggestions on stuff to check.

It has a 230 in it with a Rochester B.

What I have done:

-Rebuilt the carb (99.9% sure I got it right)
-Set the point gap and made sure the contacts were good
-New Plugs and wires
-New Distributor
-Drained out gas tank and confirmed it was clean in there
-Cleaned out fuel lines and replaced some of them
-New Fuel Pump
-New Fuel Filter
-Properly Timed

Here is the truck:



It runs fine when choked, but when the choke is off, mashing the pedal makes it bog and it loses power real bad for a second, then it gets back on its feet and revs up fine. When it bogs it will sometimes backfire or shut off. I messed with the air/fuel screw to see if it just wasn't getting enough fuel, but even backed all the way out it still bogs. While it is running better than when I got it, it still isn't right. Any suggestions on what to check next?

Thanks in advance,
Ryan

Where did it backfire from, out the carb or out the exhaust? Makes a difference. The air fuel screw is for idle mixture only. Get back to me

[csermonet47]

From the carb. Left my ears ringing pretty good today haha.

[1963c-10]

whats it reading for vacuum. had the same problem in my last 63 that also had a 230. ended up with low vacuum at idle and was the valve seats leaking. would idle fine, then lug and kinda catch when the vacuum picked up under load. ran a guage into the cab to monitor it. my latest 63 has the factory guage/vacuum set up, which makes it convient to watch for. havent had that issue with the present 230
Posted via Mobile Device

[Irishbleueyes]

Originally Posted by csermonet47

From the carb. Left my ears ringing pretty good today haha.

Assuming the engine is ok, carb backfire is a lean condition or problem with the ignition. Make sure your carb is being supplied with a constant flow of fuel, make sure the float is working correctly and not sticking. You may have to replace the carburetor, you could have a problem internally. Check to see if the distributor is advancing - the weights are freely moving in it. Exhaust valves are the ones that usually burn but then the backfire is out the tail pipe on decel. After you determine all of that is working correctly and you still have a problem then it'll be deeper in the motor, cam going flat etc. But if it runs ok and its just the bog on heavy throttle but then smooths out, I'm sure its just your components on top of the motor. Good luck and let us know what the hell it is please...

[Irishbleueyes]

Originally Posted by 1963c-10

whats it reading for vacuum. had the same problem in my last 63 that also had a 230. ended up with low vacuum at idle and was the valve seats leaking. would idle fine, then lug and kinda catch when the vacuum picked up under load. ran a guage into the cab to monitor it. my latest 63 has the factory guage/vacuum set up, which makes it convient to watch for. havent had that issue with the present 230
Posted via Mobile Device

Good info 63-c10, vacuum gauge is old school.

Performing A Vacuum Gauge Test
Connect the vacuum gauge hose as close to the intake manifold as possible and start engine. Run engine until normal operating temperature has been reached and then allow to idle. On V type engines having two manifolds, make separate tests on each manifold. If required, set the idle adjustment on the carbuetor so that the engine idles smoothly.

NOTE: Vacuum readings will vary according to the altitude in different localities. From sea level to 2,000 feet elevation all normal engines should show a vacuum reading between 17 to 21 inches. Above 2,000 feet elevation the vacuum reading will be about one (1) inch lower per each 1,000 feet rise in elevation.


CHART OF VACUUM READINGS

Engine Speed Reading Indication of Engine Condition
Smooth and steady idle
(800 to 1200 RPM) Between 17 to 21 inches Engine is in Good Condition, but perform next test to be sure.
Open and close throttle quickly Jumps from 2 to about 25 inches Engine is in Good Condition.
Smooth and steady idle Steady, but lower than normal reading Worn rings, but perform next test to be sure.
Open and close throttle quickly Jumps from 0 to 22 inches Confirms worn rings.
Steady idle Intermittent dropping back 3 or 5 divisions and returns to normal Sticky Valves. If injection of penetrating oil into intake manifold temporarily stops pointer from dropping back, it's certain the valves are sticking.
Steady 3000 RPM Pointer fluctuates rapidly, faster engine speed causes more pointer swing Weak valve springs.
Steady idle Fast fluctuation between 14 to 19 points Worn intake valve stem guides. Excessive pointer vibration at all speeds indicates a leaky head gasket.
Steady idle Constant drop Burnt valve or insufficient tappet clearance holding valve partly open or a spark plug occasionally miss firing.
Steady idle Steady 8 to 14 inches Incorrect valve timing. It must also be remembered that vacuum leaks and/or poor compression can result in a low vacuum reading.
Steady idle Steady 14 to 16 inches Incorrect ignition timing.
Steady idle Drifting from 14 to 16 inches Plug gaps too close or points not synchronized..
Steady idle Drifting 5 to 19 inches Compression leak between cylinders.
Steady idle Steady below 5 inches Leaky manifold or carburetor gasket, or stuck manifold heat control valve.
Steady idle Floats slowly between 12 and 16 inches Carburetor out of adjustment.
Blipping engine speed Quick drop to zero then return to normal reading Muffler is clear.
Blipping engine speed Slow drop of pointer then slow return to normal reading Muffler is choked or blocked.

[HouldenCaulfield]

I had the same issue with my rochester 1bbl. I tried everything, nothing fixed it. I bought a rebuilt rochester, works great now.

[awbrown]

a hesitation or bog from a start most likely is an accelerator pump issue ,especially if it idles fine ,a small manifold leak is easy to find with a length of hose held to your ear and run the other end up and down the manifold surfaces ,you wont miss it if there is a leak ... the pump shot needs to be strong right from the moment you move the pedal or you get a bog .. sometimes you have to bend the linkage to get it to work right or drill the discharge hole bigger ,all it takes is a small piece of dirt under one of the check balls to cause it to messup ....

[Sharps40]

Originally Posted by awbrown

a hesitation or bog from a start most likely is an accelerator pump issue ,especially if it idles fine ,a small manifold leak is easy to find with a length of hose held to your ear and run the other end up and down the manifold surfaces ,you wont miss it if there is a leak ... the pump shot needs to be strong right from the moment you move the pedal or you get a bog .. sometimes you have to bend the linkage to get it to work right or drill the discharge hole bigger ,all it takes is a small piece of dirt under one of the check balls to cause it to messup ....

+1 on accelerator pump...not enough throw in the lever and or needs the rod readjusted, typically this means bending to a setting dictated in the specs. Also, with new rebuild kits, two other possibilities, leather washer not fully expanded yet....synthetic washer not sealing and should be replaced by leather washer.

[awbrown]

lots of the time it means bending to a new spec , namely one that works .. The pump bore can wear , the area where the check balls seat can carode , so some times going by the specs wont cut it , you need to make sure that the pump shot starts as the butterfly starts to move... finding the offending part can sometimes be frustrating because there is more than one circut involved ... 2 check balls etc.. an upgrade would be a monojet carb ,they flat out will out MPG any old rochester because of the design of the booster ,plus you can get them with an electric choke which is nice ...

[KroAutomotiveInc]

these carbs just get worn out and useless i have spent countless hours rebuild and rechecking everything to do with the 1bbl Rochester on my 230 nothing helped nor was anything consistent with changes i made get a 2bbl and save the head ace of anymore work!

[Irishbleueyes]

Originally Posted by KroAutomotiveInc

these carbs just get worn out and useless i have spent countless hours rebuild and rechecking everything to do with the 1bbl Rochester on my 230 nothing helped nor was anything consistent with changes i made get a 2bbl and save the head ace of anymore work!

Yep, known fact carbs wear out over time. Throttle shafts wear out and cause vacuum leaks, jets and other passages increase in size from constant fuel flow. Makes sense, its only aluminum with brass parts.. Hell, look what water does with constant flow... cuts gorges

[csermonet47]

Thank you for all the suggestions guys. Haven't got around to the vacuum gauge yet but I could definitely see the carb being bad. It was put together all wrong when I tore into it so wouldn't surprise me if the float bowl is warped. Haven't had a chance to mess with it and won't for another week. I keep it in a barn away from my house and have been busy messing with the BMW trying to get it all tied up. If it is the carb, I don't want to put the money into a new carb since I will just be tearing everything out this summer so I really just need it mobile for now. Was hoping I could get it driving right with how it is now but not a huge deal if I can't.

[KroAutomotiveInc]

if you clean it up and get it back together it should be decent enough to be mobile. The one on my 230 would run and drive but the idle had to be around 1100 and it would bog down some times along with idle changes. once i replaced the carb it was like nothing was ever wrong.