Door weather stripping

[twotrucks]

What's the secret to getting the doors to close? No latch installed, doors binding on the weather strip.
I have the Precision push on seals with miter corner and it's seams like the stuff is too big. Doors lined up well without the weather stripping, body lines aligned and door centered.
Is the glue on seal smaller, more pliable?

[Astro-Balls]

Probably want to do a Search on this problem.
It would be nice if precision would use a softer rubber for their seals.

[GMCPaul]

Originally Posted by Astro-Balls

Probably want to do a Search on this problem.
It would be nice if precision would use a softer rubber for their seals.

The Precision brand seals are manufactured to Exactly the same durometer density ( hardness ) as GM OE seals specifications were and and they are made in Exactly the same profile and size as OEM GM. We've never had to slam a door after checking different wear points and replacing or repairing them and or adjusting related parts.
Paul Jr. @ GMCPauls

[twotrucks]

Ok, I've read numerous posts on these seals and found people are resorting to Dakota and Honda Civic seals. Are the glue in seals for these trucks any smaller, softer or shaped differently that may allow them to work better? The Precision push on seal is nice but it seems too large.

[Corts60]

Originally Posted by GMCPaul

The Precision brand seals are manufactured to Exactly the same durometer density ( hardness ) as GM OE seals specifications were and and they are made in Exactly the same profile and size as OEM GM. We've never had to slam a door after checking different wear points and replacing or repairing them and or adjusting related parts.
Paul Jr. @ GMCPauls

Hi Paul,

Can you provide us with points or tips on how to install properly then? I've also had issues with the gaskets making doors hard to close (on my 78). I put the air gap at the bottom per the instructions and even after two years and numerous adjustments, they were still hard to close.

Thanks for helping us out.

[jojo-munson]

I installed these last summer I think, and they’re still just as hard to close.

I agree some tips would be useful. The only way I’ve gotten the doors to close easy is having the door latch farther out, but then the door sticks out a good ways.

[twotrucks]

Thanks for responding guys. I don't want to slam doors for years or adjust door out past the cab, I want something that works.
I did try tapping the pinch weld flange back some.

[1971Stepside]

I grabbed some Civic seals at the pick and pull. They fit and the doors close, but I really don't like the look of them as they have an extra piece that is made to tuck the interior headliner and jambs into. I'm looking for some Dakota seals to see if they fit/look any better. I did hear that you could get a set of Peterbilt door seals and they will work, but I've not been able to confirm that. I would think the after market would have come up with something by now for these trucks.

[twotrucks]

I think I'll try to find some glue on ones. Soft seal is on back order, I'll look at Metro.
I also wonder what I'll find with the division bar weather strip and the window sweeps. Hope that isn't multiple orders to find a good one.

[Corts60]

https://www.steelerubber.com/door-we...rip-70-1426-72


In my experience, Steele Rubber supplies very top quality stuff.

[GMCPaul]

.A majority of the time the difficulty in closing doors with new seals is related to other wear on the truck. The door latch mechanism that engages the striker is often worn with a 1/8"-1/4" play/slop in mechanism. This then results in the door having to be pushed 1/8"-1/4" further in to fully engage it. With worn seals this isn't noticed but as soon as you install new seals it's very apparent due to difficulty closing door. Worn or sagging cab mounts causing door misalignment with opening is another.
Some trucks we've discovered have had repair work to the cab or doors that wasn't always done correctly that will not present a problem until new door weather strip is installed which then highlight’s the door gap problem where the inner door meets the cab opening. Without weatherstrip GM specifications say you should have a 1/4"-5/16" gap ( + or - 1/16" ) between door and lip weatherstrip installs on when no weatherstrip is installed. If the cab had rust issues in supports we've also seen the door frame opening at a-pillar, or b-pillar twisted slightly due to the cab sagging causing door to contact a portion of seal sooner than the rest on unrepaired cabs and we've seen repaired cabs where they weren't checked and were repaired with a twist to front a-pillar or rear b-pillar, the front a-pillar is the most common culprit in this situation. If you remove door seal and get in cab and close door looking at gap from door to cab pinch weld seal attaches to you can often see the problem area. Some report using a powder to determine areas that may hit sooner than they should. Sometimes this twist can be resolved by bending flange of pinch weld in slightly.
Some trucks we've discovered have had repair work to the cab or doors that wasn't always done correctly that will not present a problem until new door weather strip is installed which then highlight’s the door gap problem where the inner door meets the cab opening. Without weatherstrip GM specifications say you should have a 1/4"-5/16" gap ( + or - 1/16" ) between door and lip weatherstrip installs on when no weatherstrip is installed.
During the assembly line process doors were installed on cab first, then adjusted in the door opening to correct specifications then the weatherstrip was installed and then the front clip was installed and shimmed to match the installed door profile.
Some other not so obvious problems are missing front fender shims, leading to incorrect gap adjustment of door hinge or latch adjustment, improperly installed rockers, kick panels, front or rear door pillar or sill plates installed incorrectly causing the binding ( If rocker, kick panel or floor work repair was done in past definitely check to see if the front pillar are twisted slightly many fail to brace properly for this repair and they twist in or out when the adjacent metal is cut out and repaired ). Things as minor as the weather strip lip being bent outward slightly can cause this.
In regards to trucks being restored if the problem in binding appears to be primarily in the front check to see if you have shims behind the front fenders up top as virtually all trucks from the factory had upper fender shims. If none are installed then this causes the fender to sit in closer to the body then when you try to get the door adjusted to the fender the lack of shims has you bringing the door in to far into the door opening. The factory originally installed the doors on the cab then installed the front clip as a 1 piece assembled unit shimming it to match the door. Where as most people & body shops doing restorations actually do the opposite causing the door to sit to far inward. Some then take the time to assemble the truck correctly the factory way, others opt to bend the flange inward at front slightly that the door weatherstrip attaches to creating greater clearance for the seal in the front.
If your doors not perfectly centered in the opening front to rear or top to bottom then this will lead to the door binding when closing. The door when installed should be adjusted to the inner door opening then adjustments should be made to fenders to achieve as even as possible body lines and gaps. Instead quite often folks adjust the doors to the front & rear gaps where it meets fender in front & cab in back.
In Example- If they then install door to far forward to get that perfect gap on the outside at fender & cab where door meets them then it causes binding in the front, if they adjust it rear ward then it binds in the rear. But if they adjust the door to the inner opening itself then move fender forward or back to achieve a even gap this is correct and there’s no binding.
Many previous owners will adjust either the door hinges or door latch inward when the original door seals were not sealing fully anymore and thus they need adjusted back out when new door seals are installed by a later owner of the truck.
We have also found that several customers discovered a portion of the problem were new door bumpers firmness that when installed with the weather strip it causes greater difficulty in closing the doors, when the door bumpers are removed the doors close easily. Those customers have found that trimming the door bumper ends by approx. 1/8" allowed the doors to close as they should.
Some find the problem is they butted both ends together tightly under the door sill plates or even glued the ends together, this should never be done. GM recommends that under the door sill plate you should cut the bulbous portion of the sill at a angle on either end so that where the bulb portion meets it forms a V shape. This allows the air that is in the bulb portion of the door seal a way to escape easily. If the ends are butted tightly together then the air has nowhere to go easily causing difficulty in closing of the doors.
If you go through and examine these things I've mentioned you'll more than likely find that one of the above mentioned things will fix the difficulty you are currently incurring with these. The door seals do settle in with time allowing much easier closing of the doors within a few months of installation. This breaking in time was less of a problem when the vehicles were built new as it took 1-3 months from vehicle completion to delivery to the dealerships for sale which allowed factory seals when the trucks were new to have time to break in before the trucks were sold.
Those that have difficulties with our push-on door weather strips generally have the same issues or problems in closing the doors using the original style glue on door weather strips that are exactly like original GM and those that use them generally switch to push-on version because they allow the door to close more easily than the glue on version did because of it being a softer bulbous seal.
Some have advised they were able to eliminate the break in period by closing door and applying heat with a heat gun to quicken the process of molding to the opening by softening them with heat while compressed helping to better mold them to the current door gap.
With so many variables involved its hard to say exactly which of the above things it may be without examining the truck in person, so I tried to cover the majority of problems we know of that cause difficulty with door closing using new seals. I feel you will find upon further examination that one of the above suggestions or problem areas is causing your current difficulties.

[ImNoSpaz]

Do you mind if I copy your post and reformat it so it's easier to read, and repost it?

[Corts60]

Originally Posted by GMCPaul

.A majority of the time the difficulty in closing doors with new seals is related to other wear on the truck. The door latch mechanism that engages the striker is often worn with a 1/8"-1/4" play/slop in mechanism. This then results in the door having to be pushed 1/8"-1/4" further in to fully engage it. With worn seals this isn't noticed but as soon as you install new seals it's very apparent due to difficulty closing door. Worn or sagging cab mounts causing door misalignment with opening is another.
Some trucks we've discovered have had repair work to the cab or doors that wasn't always done correctly that will not present a problem until new door weather strip is installed which then highlight’s the door gap problem where the inner door meets the cab opening. Without weatherstrip GM specifications say you should have a 1/4"-5/16" gap ( + or - 1/16" ) between door and lip weatherstrip installs on when no weatherstrip is installed. If the cab had rust issues in supports we've also seen the door frame opening at a-pillar, or b-pillar twisted slightly due to the cab sagging causing door to contact a portion of seal sooner than the rest on unrepaired cabs and we've seen repaired cabs where they weren't checked and were repaired with a twist to front a-pillar or rear b-pillar, the front a-pillar is the most common culprit in this situation. If you remove door seal and get in cab and close door looking at gap from door to cab pinch weld seal attaches to you can often see the problem area. Some report using a powder to determine areas that may hit sooner than they should. Sometimes this twist can be resolved by bending flange of pinch weld in slightly.
Some trucks we've discovered have had repair work to the cab or doors that wasn't always done correctly that will not present a problem until new door weather strip is installed which then highlight’s the door gap problem where the inner door meets the cab opening. Without weatherstrip GM specifications say you should have a 1/4"-5/16" gap ( + or - 1/16" ) between door and lip weatherstrip installs on when no weatherstrip is installed.
During the assembly line process doors were installed on cab first, then adjusted in the door opening to correct specifications then the weatherstrip was installed and then the front clip was installed and shimmed to match the installed door profile.
Some other not so obvious problems are missing front fender shims, leading to incorrect gap adjustment of door hinge or latch adjustment, improperly installed rockers, kick panels, front or rear door pillar or sill plates installed incorrectly causing the binding ( If rocker, kick panel or floor work repair was done in past definitely check to see if the front pillar are twisted slightly many fail to brace properly for this repair and they twist in or out when the adjacent metal is cut out and repaired ). Things as minor as the weather strip lip being bent outward slightly can cause this.
In regards to trucks being restored if the problem in binding appears to be primarily in the front check to see if you have shims behind the front fenders up top as virtually all trucks from the factory had upper fender shims. If none are installed then this causes the fender to sit in closer to the body then when you try to get the door adjusted to the fender the lack of shims has you bringing the door in to far into the door opening. The factory originally installed the doors on the cab then installed the front clip as a 1 piece assembled unit shimming it to match the door. Where as most people & body shops doing restorations actually do the opposite causing the door to sit to far inward. Some then take the time to assemble the truck correctly the factory way, others opt to bend the flange inward at front slightly that the door weatherstrip attaches to creating greater clearance for the seal in the front.
If your doors not perfectly centered in the opening front to rear or top to bottom then this will lead to the door binding when closing. The door when installed should be adjusted to the inner door opening then adjustments should be made to fenders to achieve as even as possible body lines and gaps. Instead quite often folks adjust the doors to the front & rear gaps where it meets fender in front & cab in back.
In Example- If they then install door to far forward to get that perfect gap on the outside at fender & cab where door meets them then it causes binding in the front, if they adjust it rear ward then it binds in the rear. But if they adjust the door to the inner opening itself then move fender forward or back to achieve a even gap this is correct and there’s no binding.
Many previous owners will adjust either the door hinges or door latch inward when the original door seals were not sealing fully anymore and thus they need adjusted back out when new door seals are installed by a later owner of the truck.
We have also found that several customers discovered a portion of the problem were new door bumpers firmness that when installed with the weather strip it causes greater difficulty in closing the doors, when the door bumpers are removed the doors close easily. Those customers have found that trimming the door bumper ends by approx. 1/8" allowed the doors to close as they should.
Some find the problem is they butted both ends together tightly under the door sill plates or even glued the ends together, this should never be done. GM recommends that under the door sill plate you should cut the bulbous portion of the sill at a angle on either end so that where the bulb portion meets it forms a V shape. This allows the air that is in the bulb portion of the door seal a way to escape easily. If the ends are butted tightly together then the air has nowhere to go easily causing difficulty in closing of the doors.
If you go through and examine these things I've mentioned you'll more than likely find that one of the above mentioned things will fix the difficulty you are currently incurring with these. The door seals do settle in with time allowing much easier closing of the doors within a few months of installation. This breaking in time was less of a problem when the vehicles were built new as it took 1-3 months from vehicle completion to delivery to the dealerships for sale which allowed factory seals when the trucks were new to have time to break in before the trucks were sold.
Those that have difficulties with our push-on door weather strips generally have the same issues or problems in closing the doors using the original style glue on door weather strips that are exactly like original GM and those that use them generally switch to push-on version because they allow the door to close more easily than the glue on version did because of it being a softer bulbous seal.
Some have advised they were able to eliminate the break in period by closing door and applying heat with a heat gun to quicken the process of molding to the opening by softening them with heat while compressed helping to better mold them to the current door gap.
With so many variables involved its hard to say exactly which of the above things it may be without examining the truck in person, so I tried to cover the majority of problems we know of that cause difficulty with door closing using new seals. I feel you will find upon further examination that one of the above suggestions or problem areas is causing your current difficulties.

Excellent write up Paul! Thanks! I'm now interested to go check all these things out....

[GMCPaul]

Originally Posted by Corts60

https://www.steelerubber.com/door-we...rip-70-1426-72


In my experience, Steele Rubber supplies very top quality stuff.

Steele does make the door seals and we've heard the same issues from others about door closure with the Steele rubber seals, in regards to the rest of the 67-72 seals Steele carries the majority are made by Precision for them they make very few 67-72 rubber items themselves.
Paul Jr @ GMCPauls

[Davidf]

Supper helpful tips from Paul. I am currently at the stage of my rust repair, refurbishment, repaint to check all this out and correct as necessary. Kudos!!!!!

[Astro-Balls]

Or they could just make a softer seal and we would all be happy..

[GMCPaul]

Originally Posted by Astro-Balls

Or they could just make a softer seal and we would all be happy..

We investigated that route and determined that if you soften the seal further and they begin to wrinkle bulbous part of seal when installed and leak air far sooner than they should as they age and compress Especially on trucks where there is no door closure issues which we've found to be approx. 80-85% of the trucks they are installed on have no issues when everything's properly adjusted. So then the 80-85% that these work great on begin complaining about wrinkled seals when installed and air leaks a few years down the road.
Paul Jr @ GMCPauls

[randy500]

Bad door latches and poor door to cab fit cause door closing oroblems which get blamed on the seals.
I ageee the rubber bumper can cause problems too.
It is difficult to see where the door latch is bad and hard to test if its bad.
Repro latches are decent quality and reasonably priced, buy new latches. I have never seen a used drivers latch that was in good condition. All are marginal at best.
Read my door locking thread for more on bad latches causing door locking problems

Honda door seals are a dumb idea too.
Fix your crappy body fit and worn out door latches.
And quit painting trucks without testing door fitment/closure with seals in place.

[twotrucks]

Door latches are not installed, rubber bumpers are. Doors shut perfectly with 3/8" gap between door and pinch weld without gasket in place. Doors were tested fitted before paint and crappy fit addressed then. I do have new aftermarket latches, not installed since door won't close and don't want all that stress on the latch.

[Stover93]

Great info Paul & Randy!!

[KevinK7]

Paul, Thanks for the detailed explanation ...especially since I am about to install my seals. Great reference, Thanks again

[randy500]

Originally Posted by twotrucks

Door latches are not installed, rubber bumpers are. Doors shut perfectly with 3/8" gap between door and pinch weld without gasket in place. Doors were tested fitted before paint and crappy fit addressed then. I do have new aftermarket latches, not installed since door won't close and don't want all that stress on the latch.

The weight of the door with all the glass and parts installed makes a huge difference in if they will close properly.
Take out the rubber bumpers too as Paul said.

Just assemble the door and see what you ACTUALLY have.

[randy500]

And post some pictures.
With the push on you can remove parts of it to see where its binding, probably binding at the front where the window hoop meets the door.
Pull off or just install parts of the weatherstrip to figure out where your 3/8” perfect gap is binding

[twotrucks]

Door is empty. With bumpers it shuts. Body lines look good, even gap. Put weather strip in and it binds at front. I can move door past rocker using adjustment on door side or try bend pinch weld some. Really don't want doors past rocker or not shutting all the way. I'll continue tweaking using small adjustments.

[randy500]

And im not just blowing around ideas here. I have been building these trucks for 35 years.
I finished my 72 K10 last year with precision glue on seals, doors shut great. Passenger side not as good as drivers side but no slamming either.
My crew cab has precision push on seals on all 4 doors, they all shut real easy.

All my doors are fully assembled and they did not shut nearly as well when not fully assembled.
I have either new of very carefully inspected door latches and used but carefully inspected striker plates.
I dont have all the rubber bumpers installed in the crew cab yet.