Restoring Rusty

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by Rich84

Very nice..I'll show you ugly:
Attachment 1823853

LOL, you win!

(I use a program called IrfanView to rotate and save my pics properly, it's a bit difficult to use at first buy I only use like 1% of the features, also sometimes rotating pics using Microsoft viewers just doesn't stick)

[Rich84]

Thanks for the tip..

Funny thing is this truck has no rot and is very solid. I just have to knock that ugly off of the hood.

[LT7A]

Dude, Rusty's looking sharp! That hood came out great despite the wind and all. And by the way, the rain wasn't from me -- we got doused too. I gotta say I think that A-833 or M-whatever whatever transmission is so cool. I know you are enamored of the "Firebird" pedigree of your current 4spd... But that A-833 -- lightweight, overdrive, plus 4:10s will be a lot of fun and still good cruising RPMs. How was the freeway driving when you had that transmission in? What are your current rear gears? It's probably in the thread and I swear I've read the whole thing but it's probably buried somewhere in the preceding 24,000 pages.

[Wide Open]

Originally Posted by LT7A

It's probably in the thread and I swear I've read the whole thing but it's probably buried in somewhere in the preceding 24,000 pages.

Hahahaha! For real

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by LT7A

... It's probably in the thread and I swear I've read the whole thing but it's probably buried somewhere in the preceding 24,000 pages.

The fact that you are unable to quote my thread verbatim whilst citing thread numbers from memory disappoints me.

[LT7A]

Originally Posted by Gregski

The fact that you are unable to quote my thread verbatim whilst citing thread numbers from memory disappoints me.

Yeah, I know I let you down, but what about the transmission? And I didn't know that 4:10s were in the works.

Next time I'm in town we'll have to cruise Rusty through the capital grounds now that he's all sharp'd up!

[Gregski]

so after two years and 15,000 noisy miles on my 833 overdrive transmission I finally am going to rebuild it

I ordered this rebuild kit from Brewer's Performance in Laura Ohio

Product ID: RBK-MY6

Price: $129.95
Plus the SYNCHRONIZER RINGS (+$49.95)

so $179 plus shipping

this will be a bit of a duplicate post to it's specific thread: What can be said about the 4-speed New Process NV833 overdrive manual transmission just to be sure people can find the info easily and hopefully it will help someone out

[Gregski]

a week later we got the parts (they use old newspaper as wrapping paper - my kinda people) thumbs up

[Jake Wade]

Didn't you just rebuild a transmission? Is this a different one?

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by Jake Wade

Didn't you just rebuild a transmission? Is this a different one?

Yes I rebuilt a Saginaw 4 speed (no overdrive) that I bought on Craigslist. I got it so that I can remove my NV833 4 speed (with overdrive) transmission while still driving the truck to work.

[Gregski]

you've suffered through my last transmission rebuild so I will spare you all the gory details and just point out some differences between a standard 4 speed transmission like that Saginaw I rebuilt vs this NP833 Overdrive 4 speed one

on the Saginaw the gears in the transmission go 4, 3, 2, 1 from front to back of the gear box, (the gears on a Muncie transmission are ordered the same way)

on the NP833 (which is essentially a tricked out Dodge / MOPAR transmission) the 4th & 3rd gears are swapped so they go 3, 4, 2, 1 technically 4th is Overdrive and power always comes in to the transmission via the 3rd gear welded or I should say machined on the input shaft, this 3rd gear is always working / spinning regardless of what gear you are in - it makes the counter shaft spin


Typical power flow through the transmission engaged in 1st gear

Input Shaft...................................Output Shaft
==3rd=>...........................==1st=========>
............ll............................/\
............ll............................ll
............V............................ll
............====Cntr=Shft==>


The top pic is the main shaft out of the NP833 overdrive transmission, the next two pics show the corresponding gears on the counter shafts of the Saginaw and the NP833

[Gregski]

it's been a while since I updated you all on Rusty's status, so here it goes

I took the New Process 833 overdrive four speed transmission apart and since nothing jumped out at me I decided to take it in to the transmission shop literally walking distance from my house for a rebuild.

Since I already bought the rebuild kit, they quoted me $300 bucks for the labor. That sounded good to me.

Ok, let me come clean and tell you I am not about to rant or complain,
I am just taking you with me on this journey as I always do be it to Home Depot, Auto Zone, or the Pick n Pull junk yards.

So I drop off my transmission in pieces in a cardboard box and zip loc baggies to them on Wednesday morning 7:00 am before I go to work.

They say it will take them a couple days to get it done. That sounded good to me too.

So I figure, they will start on it that day, the next day for sure, and maybe I can pick it up Friday after work, sounds reasonable to me, but hey I'm not in a rush

[Gregski]

... so a week goes by and I don't call them on purpose to see when or if they will ever call me (they do have my contact information written on the cardboard box and on blue tape on some of the zip loc baggies)

after a week I call them (realizing couple days in mechanic time may mean couple weeks in human time, lol)

Two guys work at this small shop, and the guy who answers the phone puts me on hold and goes to talk to the second guy to find out the status (fair enough) - - - then the phone gets disconnected, I think it was accidental.

I call back after an hour to give him ample time to gather the pertinent information and I go straight to voicemail and have to leave a message (no big deal)

couple hours later I get a call back...

There are Two Things Wrong with my transmission, (cool I think, they found the problem/source of the noise it has been making)

1. The tip of the Main Shaft needs machining - $135 dollars Extra!

2. The counter shaft pin moves around and I either need a new case or my case needs a bushing installed - $185 dollars Extra!

and 3. This shop does some machining but not this type of work so there is a delivery fee to take my parts to another shop and back - $100 dollars Extra!

So $300 => $720

[MikeB]

Runaway, runaway! Do some research into parts and machining prices. I found some great deals on 3-speed Saginaw parts and cases online back when I was thinking about keeping mine. I'm sure you can find sources for 833 parts.

Hey, for a few $hundred more, you might be able to find a used Gear Vendors OD to hang on the back of your 4-speed.

[rgunlock]

I know you're in a different state, but it sounds just like you were in the same drivetrain shop I used. And you have the same shocked (actually disgusted to find out my suspicions were correct) face I had with them. Good luck with however you sort this out.

[hatzie]

A wallered out countershaft bore in the case is a gimme on the Aluminum A833.

What is wrong with the tip of the mainshaft?

I'm very surprised the countershaft doesn't need work where you can see the wear rings in your pictures.

Where are they taking the parts Reno? $100 is a lot of bloody money for a goon to schlep parts to and from a machinist in the same town.

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by hatzie

Where are they taking the parts Reno? $100 is a lot of bloody money for a goon to schlep parts to and from a machinist in the same town.

ha ha, I know right?, I even joked with them about that, saying I would love to be the guy / kid who has that job, my buddy suggested I offer to take the parts to the machine shop, and perhaps find out it's in the building right next door, wouldn't that be awesome, Not!

[rusty76]

What hurts is that they couldn’t sell you parts. Parts is where you make your money. Labor is second. So a ten dollar part turns into a hundred dollar part. Honestly I’d search around for another shop and or go another route. When you get the run around get to running. Good luck.

[hatzie]

Rusty76 has a good point. You didn't source the parts from your goons so I'd worry about the attention to detail, or lack thereof, they'll give your project.
Hanging up on you, you can bet with fair surety that's what happened, and a "couple days" turning into well over a week with no contact at all does not bode well.

I'd find the shop that is doing the machine work for your erstwhile goons and deal directly with the source. Use your poker face and don't tell them you pulled this from your old goons because they were exhibiting worrisome behavior.

Once the bloody machine work is done you have to carefully re-assemble the little monster.

You're more than capable of that kind of work... and you'll know it was done right.

[Gregski]

so five weeks later, finally got the transmission back from the shop, going to install it this weekend

[MikeB]

Well, here's to it going in easily and working perfectly! You certainly deserve that after all the trans woes you've had.

[MikeB]

I'd like to respond to the comment about shops making most of their money from parts sales. That simply has NOT been my experience working part-time for an engine builder and a classic car repair/modification shop.

The owner of the engine shop probably made around 20% on parts, depending on where he bought them (Edelbrock master distributor, Federal-Mogul warehouse, local parts store, etc.) However, he was fine with customers bringing in their own parts. And sometimes Summit Racing's price was not much more than our cost from local distributor! The vast majority of his income was from labor for cleaning, decking, boring, honing, balancing, assembly, etc.

At the car repair/modification shop, we'd give the owner part numbers to order from Summit, Jeg's etc for the major stuff. Then we'd have the local NAPA store deliver smaller parts and incidentals, and make around 20% on those. Again, the real income came from labor charges. As for a parts runner charge, we never would have done that unless it required a trip across town. And even then, we'd try to factor those things into our quotes up front. Quotes for a job were generally whatever we thought it would take plus 10%, because Murphy lives at car repair shops.

Hey, and I take exception the word "goon" for obvious reasons!

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by MikeB

Hey, and I take exception the word "goon" for obvious reasons!

I call myself a goon at times. Goon, that guy, darned engineer... they all work

[Gregski]

so took today off (Friday) and after waiting for the Mercury to rise above a toasty 40* F started in the garage at 9:00 am

spent the first 45 minutes or so fartin' around and cleaning up the work area as it got to the point where I was loosing my mind, maybe some of you can relate

then took a 15 minute coffee break ...

but by 11:33 am the old transmission was out

and by 11:59 am the new one was in

then it was time for LUNCH, not bad for a one clown circus act

[MikeB]

You getting so good at this, some day you'll be able to do the job blindfolded while drinking coffee.