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Old 06-26-2009, 10:44 PM   #1
screwballl
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Scrap those old trucks

http://echo.bluehornet.com/hostedema...EEE74828EF6C77

http://www.cashforclunkersfacts.com/

Get the word out and try to fight this so the locals do not trash these trustworthy vehicles.

SEMA has done their best to fight it but the powers that be decided it is better to get these "old polluting clunkers" off the road... the WORST part of it is that the vehicle are REQUIRED to be destroyed.

Quote:
* Your vehicle must be less than 25 years old on the trade-in date
* Only purchase or lease of new vehicles qualify
* Generally, trade-in vehicles must get 18 or less MPG (some very large pick-up trucks and cargo vans have different requirements)
* Trade-in vehicles must be registered and insured continuously for the full year preceding the trade-in
* You don't need a voucher, dealers will apply a credit at purchase
* Program runs through Nov 1, 2009 or when the funds are exhausted, whichever comes first.
* The vehicle that you are trading in is required to be destroyed. Therefore, the value you negotiate with the dealer for your trade in is not likely to exceed its scrap value. The law requires the dealer to disclose to you and estimate of the scrap value of your trade-in vehicle.

Quote:
June 25, 2009 - President Obama has signed the Cash for Clunkers Bill, now called “CARS” . NHTSA should have program up and running Late July.

June 23, 2009 - The NHTSA has updated their CARS website (http://cars.gov), the only Federal website for the cash voucher program. The latest information on the website indicates that the program implementation will be completed in Late July. The exact wording from the Cars.gov website advises consumers “You may want to contact your local dealer in mid-July.” This is in slight conflict with the wording of the bill that says cars purchased from July 1, 2009 – November 1, 2009 will qualify. Read Article.

Consumers should be able to start purchasing cars by Late July.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) will be administering the program and has started to formulate how car dealers will register and get paid. Dealers can find additional information at http://cars.gov; the official Federal website. Stay tuned to this website for breaking news and details as soon as they are released. By signing up for our email alerts, you be the first to know when important details are released. You can also follow our daily updates on Twitter.
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Old 06-27-2009, 02:18 AM   #2
kevinr1970
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Re: Scrap those old trucks

Your about a week behind on this, but what exactly is your complaint?
I am not arguing, but wondering if I am missing something for all the negative attention this is getting?

Yes the cars have to be "destroyed" but read the fine print.
"(B) SAVINGS PROVISION- Nothing in subparagraph (A)
may be construed to preclude a person who is responsible
for ensuring that the vehicle is crushed or shredded from-
-
(i) selling any parts of the disposed vehicle other
than the engine block and drive train (unless with
respect to the drive train, the transmission, drive
shaft, or rear end are sold as separate parts); or
(ii) retaining the proceeds from such sale.
"

I take that to mean that the scrap yards are free to keep and sell any part of the car/truck EXCEPT the engine block and the "drivetrain" as a whole. Sounds like they are in for a gold rush in the near future?

This will be for a limited time, July 1-November 10, and with limited (relatively speaking) funds, $1,000,000,000 which comes to about 250,000 total vouchers. Also limited to 1986 and newer vehicles so the "classics" are protected.

No one is required to take part in this. And it seems like the biggest argument I have seen is that people that have vehicles that fit the requirements aren't going to be the people looking to buy new cars.

This is how I see this working for me, and maybe someone can clarify this.
I trade in my '06 GMC truck on a new Honda Fit. I get the trade in value of the GMC (probably a wash with outstanding loan owed so no equity).
I also trade in my '86 GMC that I would be lucky to get $1000 for(*). The '86 runs, drives and has been continuously insured and registered for over one year.
The mileage difference between the Fit and the '86 is more than 10mpg (15 vs. 33) so I get the full $4500 benefit. This brings the cost of the new Fit down to the price range of a Fit that is a few years old with ~30k on it. I get new for the price of used.
Any reason why that wouldn't work?

(*)This is the part my girlfriend will like; I then go buy another truck like the one I traded in to take its place because the market around here is flooded with trucks like mine...
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Old 06-27-2009, 05:01 AM   #3
Longhorn Man
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Re: Scrap those old trucks

yeah, but you'd end up in a FIT!?!?!
I'm just messin. Like I said the last time this came up, it'll flop on its face anyways
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Old 06-27-2009, 05:14 AM   #4
68C15
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Re: Scrap those old trucks

yeah, the first 2 stipulations exclude me. plus I dont want anything new, or newer than 1995.
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Old 06-27-2009, 05:32 AM   #5
special-K
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Re: Scrap those old trucks

All the pollution from improperly maintained/adjusted oil furnaces put out more pollution than all the older vehicles we like to drive.Focus on one thing,overlook another.Seems to be the way this country operates anymore just to please the whiners.
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:08 AM   #6
Mordachai
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Re: Scrap those old trucks

I think the whole less than 25 yrs old rule is plenty fine enough for me to not worry. There won't be any classic iron scrapped through this specific program, and the older the iron, the harder it is to find. I really don't want anything Newer than 25 years myself.. haha. I prefer a vehicle I can fix without any kind of code reader etc.
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Old 06-27-2009, 11:55 AM   #7
special-K
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Re: Scrap those old trucks

I always felt the newer stuff would be a mess to restore anyway.They are all throw away in my eyes.
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"BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed"......

'67 C1500 SWB Wideside Super Custom: 327/M22/3.42 posi...project 'Driver Quality'
(ground-up used truck)
'72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 PowerLoc...project 'Beefy Stock'-ish
(Still original)
'85 K5/25 Jimmy Sierra: 6.2/700r4/4.10 Locker/8-lugs...project 'Jimmy'
(li'l helper,peeps hauler,& fun machine)
Tim

R.I.P. East Side Low Life ____________ R.I.P. El Jay__
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:09 PM   #8
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Re: Scrap those old trucks

im keepin my gmc till i get the green to throw it in the bodyshop and scrap 96 cavalier
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Old 06-28-2009, 02:46 PM   #9
screwballl
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Re: Scrap those old trucks

My main complaint is this:

1) Taking road worthy and borderline classic vehicles off the road and crushing them. The information mentioned by kevinr above states that the ONLY thing that can be saved is the engine and drivetrain, the rest must be shredded. Whoever takes a vehicle from this program (such as the dealership or scrap yard) cannot benefit from the sale of any vehicle or parts from the "to be shredded" vehicle except the engine and drivetrain, and also the saved parts cannot be sold as a whole, only as individual parts.

2) If you look at the finer details, you get $3500 for going up 2 or more MPG, and $4500 on full size trucks going up 2 or more MPG.

3) This money can only be used towards NEW vehicles. NOT used, not "like new", not anything other than brand new vehicles from a licensed car lot. You cannot combine trade-ins or with newer vehicles to get an increased discount.

4) This is using taxpayer money


I saw a few news stories and they are mentioning these vehicles like 1998 Dodge Durango and 4runners and other SUVs and trucks that get 13-16mpg... yet most of these newer SUVs are also getting the same gas mileage, so your only option is to get something with better gas mileage such as one of these s**t-box econo cars that get 20 or more MPG. Since most people driving these SUVs and trucks need them for the family and towing stuff, there is no real benefit for trading DOWN to something like a Fit or Prius or any of these small cars that they are pushing.

Another thing that really bothers me... although this time it is considered voluntary, whos to say that the powers-that-be will not decide to make something like this a requirement in a few years?
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91 Chevy Suburban Tonawanda 454 R2500 - SOLD!!!
04 Dodge Durango 5.7L Hemi 2WD, 24K miles (as of July 2011)
In the past 30 years about 90% of Fords are still on the road, the other 10% made it home.
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Old 06-28-2009, 04:20 PM   #10
Mordachai
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Re: Scrap those old trucks

lol, I can see it now

if you buy a new car, you MUST have your old one crushed!
yeah for giant carbon footprints!
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Old 06-28-2009, 07:59 PM   #11
10pointgmc
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Re: Scrap those old trucks

theyll never get my rusty ol toyota or my rusty ol 67
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Old 06-28-2009, 09:42 PM   #12
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Re: Scrap those old trucks

If they require me to destroy my truck (a 78) one day, they'll have to take it from the buisiness end of a double barrel 12 guage.

I like the fact when my truck idles, it cancels out about 6 or 7 of those hybrids...haha And never mind how many i cancel out once I start driving away. haha

Besides, where the huge incentive to scrap your old clunker, and only get scrap prices, when I could just go and sell it anyway for scrap. Now they'd get some bites it they gave you blue book value and then scrapped it for a loss of $$$ to themselves.

Just everybody keep paying your taxes so we can support super-important things like this, that really matter in the long run. (sarcasm)

If they really want to clean the air up they should start cutting into all aircraft and their industries, like they have with cars (emissions, regs. etc). Maybe airplanes, etc. are cleaner than cars, but they sure use a lot more fuel than cars, trains, industry, agriculture, etc. COMBINED.

Last edited by 78 Chevyrado; 06-28-2009 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:27 PM   #13
kevinr1970
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Re: Scrap those old trucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by screwballl View Post
The information mentioned by kevinr above states that the ONLY thing that can be saved is the engine and drivetrain, the rest must be shredded. Whoever takes a vehicle from this program (such as the dealership or scrap yard) cannot benefit from the sale of any vehicle or parts from the "to be shredded" vehicle except the engine and drivetrain, and also the saved parts cannot be sold as a whole, only as individual parts.
Unless I am misconstruing the meaning of the legalese, I think you are understanding it backwards. They will be able to sell any and all parts off the vehicle, EXCEPT the engine block or the drivetrain as a whole. But you can sell the drivetrain as seperate parts - "(unless with respect to the drive train, the transmission, drive shaft, or rear end are sold as separate parts) ".
That is the way I read it?
Also, the cars can never be resold, not even out of the country. I take that to mean that they can canabalize the vehicle down the the VIN plate and and engine block.
Quote:
Since most people driving these SUVs and trucks need them for the family and towing stuff, there is no real benefit for trading DOWN to something like a Fit or Prius or any of these small cars that they are pushing.
If someone was driving a late 80's Suburban (11/16mpg) and traded it on a new Suburban (14/20mpg) they would get the full voucher and be getting better mileage.
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Old 06-29-2009, 06:49 PM   #14
leddzepp
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Re: Scrap those old trucks

I will say it again...they will never take my 72's
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:23 PM   #15
bhoeger70
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Re: Scrap those old trucks

I have a 94 suburban and if I can swing the payment I will be glad to let you all help me buy a new car (a joke BTW)
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