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Old 08-10-2010, 04:24 PM   #1
chris mc bride
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best steps for three foot deep paint job

Ok maybe little carried away with the 3' deep thing a 1.5' deep will work. I'm wondering whats the best approach geting the paint joc to have depth look that makes you think you could fall in and swim. I saw a segmant on Muscle car tv cpl weeks ago where he kept adding another coat of clear and had some color mixed in to make it look deeper. Unforunatley I didn't get to catch all of it for some reason.
How many coats of clear can you get on with out problems after it sets up and what would make it look super deep and have crystal clear reflection. I figure I'll be spending cpl days color sanding and buffing when finished and know thaty helps with the reflection part.I've done that before with good results.
Also any tips on most durable clears or any to avoid would be great too. Thanks guys always get plenty advice here.
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:40 PM   #2
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

Adding color to the clear will NOT add to the depth to paint in a baseclear system, if thats what they used, sorry they are idiots.


Now if you are using a single stage urethane paint a very common practice is to add some clear in the last coat of the SS paint. This does add some depth and addtional UV protection.

IMO, when doing a baseclear job, I would spray 3-4 coats of clear. Allow it to fully cure by sitting it outside baking in the sun. Then come back and block sand that clear with atleast 800 grit then spray another 3-4 coats of clear. Once thats dry do your normal sanding and buffing.

Doing that cuts and levels the urethane wave in the paint job, which is totally different then orange peel.

Doing a Single stage, I would spray at least 4 coats of SS paint, bake it in the sun after its dry of course. Then come back block with 800 and spray some clear...Eric
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:54 PM   #3
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

Not sure which they had but doubt they are idiots. the job looked great when they finished. If you've never seen the show its on spike channel on saturday and sundays. Theres muscle car,horsepower and trucks. Pretty good shows and sometime great tips.
Thanks for advice the 3 to 4 coats,sanding and then more clear is what I was thinking.I was thinking I would need 1500 or finer though.If 800s fine enough I might starts with 1000 and work up.
question do you suggest a guide coat when sanding the clear?
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:29 PM   #4
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

I've heard that shooting a single-stage, then after it cures wet-sanding it for clear makes a nice shine...

Easier to just follow the recipe though : http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com...ct%20paint.htm

Thats how some of the Year One cars were painted....
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Old 08-11-2010, 04:37 AM   #5
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

good article thanks.
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:37 AM   #6
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

so they are idiots for saying ad color to the clear coat, but one way to do is to add clear to last coat of color? isnt that a different way of saying the same thing?
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Old 08-11-2010, 12:59 PM   #7
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

Hey chris
to answer your question
first step is the body work it as to be flawless
after primer and sanding
spray your base (color)
then clear coat at least 3 coat's then let dry a week if you dont have a bake booth
then water sand with 1200 to flatten out then 1500 then 3,000 on a da pad
then buff to a perfect shine and use good clear the better clear the better finish .
And there will be guys that are going to disagree but i do this for a living go to my web site check out my work http://randysclassicmuscle.com
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:08 PM   #8
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

by 'adding color to the clear' I think maybe they meant the other way around. Many people shooting Single-Stage Urethane (meant for use without any clear) can get better shine (by far) and better protection by adding 50% clearcoat into their last coat of color. This does work and is common, even back to the lacquer days I believe...

Better still would be basecoat / clearcoat all the way using the recipe above.

Also a tricoat or Kandy paintjob can have that mile-deep look depending on color you want. Depth can also come from the bodywork being perfect and blocking-out your clear. I can't find the pic online now though...
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Old 08-11-2010, 04:11 PM   #9
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

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so they are idiots for saying ad color to the clear coat, but one way to do is to add clear to last coat of color? isnt that a different way of saying the same thing?
No.

Adding BASECOAT to clear does nothing, well other then being somewhat of a candy. In addition, basecoat NEEDS the clear for UV protection and gloss, it also needs roughly about 2 mils of clear to provide this. Now you dump in some base into the last coat of clear, which by itself will not provide 2 mils. Now once dry you cut and buff, leaving you with basecoat that will fail in due time because its exposed.

Adding CLEAR to a SINGLE STAGE urethane is different. Single stage urethane needs no clear coat for its UV protection and gloss is built in. Adding clear to SS adds depth.

The reason for the 800 after the first round of clear is to cut it flat and remove the urethane wave. 1500 grit will not cut urethane wave flat.
Urethane wave and orange peel are two different animals.
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Old 08-12-2010, 08:53 AM   #10
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

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Originally Posted by sevt_chevelle View Post
No.

Adding BASECOAT to clear does nothing, well other then being somewhat of a candy.
Correct! You are adding an opaque layer just like a candy. This only works if it is a metallic or a pearl but it does give you an ultra deep finish.
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:06 AM   #11
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

Good info, Thanks Guys!
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Old 08-12-2010, 07:51 PM   #12
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

I seen that same episode, but it was on Spike TV.. they painted a door RED. The same color red was used on both doors. One was Base coat / clear coat. Looked fine, it was red, no surprise there, and it had a nice shine to it. The second door was 100% base, then like 80 , 60, 40, 20 then strait clear... the panel looked 10x better. I was asking a painter at work and he said if you ever have to repair that panel, its gonna be difficult to match w/o painting the entire side. He said a paint job like that is like candy... (repair wise).
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Old 08-13-2010, 07:23 AM   #13
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

http://powerblocktv.com/video/?ep_nu...-04&ep_show=TK

The guyes at spike tv, was adding base to clear to BLEND a pannel. Not a full paint job. This is not how i was tought to blend, but it seem to work for them.

flowless bodywork, basecoat, HIGH solids clear coat 3-4 coats, cut and buff (I-Car way)....at this point u can put 3 -4 more coats of clear to give it alot more depth, but you risk your clear turning yellow. I have seen this done many time on show cars, but not for long term daily driveing.
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Old 08-13-2010, 06:03 PM   #14
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

Adding/stepping CLEAR to do a BLEND is about THE worst possiable way to do this as possiable.
This is what intercoat or binder/blender is for.
90% of what YOU watch on TV is CRAP outside of maybe,Trucks,as Kevin knows his stuff.The other's,I would not let those 'tards within 100' of my work.
Exceptional paint work takes a LOT of TIME and WORK and it will not be done in a "couple of days".
sevt,draggin,87,blitz,Randy, are on it.
DEPTH comes from exceptional bodywork first and then it's up to WHAT paint line your using as well as application.
Urethane WAVE is your worst enemy.You go stacking multiple coats of clear and being human,you NEVER apply it EVENLY or the product saggs due to temps or overapplication and this DISTORTS the viewing pleasure your wanting achieve. Your simply applying/building "plastics" and if it's not done evenly,you'll make waves.It's like old glass window panes that when you look thru them are funky due to the way they were produced.Blocking the initial clear coats will achieve a FLAT surface to build your "mirror/window" on.All clear is,is a magnifier of what's under it.So,The "straighter" your window pane,the better/deeper it is.
Couple of the best "deep" jobs I have done was with both bc/cc and SS/clear.
Both Black and achieved exceptional results.
The bc/cc was done as Randy described basically,but cut the clear with 600 wet and flow coated with SPI MS clear,2 coats.The 2nd was with SS Black SPI paint,2 coats,blocked with 600 wet and 2 coats of SPI Universial clear and left as shot with an Iwata LPH-400LV 1.4.
BTW,The ss/clear was my lawnmower which is in the SPI tech manual.
As for airbrush flames,Look left.
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Old 08-16-2010, 09:37 AM   #15
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragginmetal View Post
http://powerblocktv.com/video/?ep_nu...-04&ep_show=TK

The guyes at spike tv, was adding base to clear to BLEND a pannel. Not a full paint job. This is not how i was tought to blend, but it seem to work for them.

flowless bodywork, basecoat, HIGH solids clear coat 3-4 coats, cut and buff (I-Car way)....at this point u can put 3 -4 more coats of clear to give it alot more depth, but you risk your clear turning yellow. I have seen this done many time on show cars, but not for long term daily driveing.
Wrong episode. There is another where they paint 2 doors red like stated above.
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Old 08-17-2010, 08:47 PM   #16
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

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so they are idiots for saying ad color to the clear coat, but one way to do is to add clear to last coat of color? isnt that a different way of saying the same thing?
was thinking same thing
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Old 08-17-2010, 11:30 PM   #17
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

That was a single stage paint that can be cleared with their clear only. Solvents in other clears are too aggressive. So adding and cutting clear color 25/75-50/50-75/25-100% adds extra depth to single stages but its hard to do aon a complete car thats why just use BC/CC if you want depth. As for the paint job when blending that is not clear coat its clear base there is a difference.
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Old 08-27-2010, 10:05 PM   #18
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

1.Clearcoating a single stage defeats the purpose. Just do a basecoat/clearcoat job.
2.Adding clear to the color or visaversa doesn't make sense.Also,good luck trying to match it later - especially red.

You can spray your basecoat/clearcoat paint job.Do a minimum of four coats of clear. Let the truck sit for seven days - Wet sand with 600 or 800 grit wet and dry paper (let sandpaper sit in bucket of soapy water overnight before using).Prep the truck and spray at least three more coats of clear. Color sand one more time with 1600 grit and buff. If you haven't used a buffer before get with someone that has experience.I hope this helps.
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Old 08-28-2010, 05:58 PM   #19
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

It was Kevin from "Trucks" on Spike TV that did a demostation with two doors painted red (non metalic) to show how you can get a deep look by blending clear and base between the regular base coat and the final clear coat. I don't remember the exact ratio but it went something like this 1) spray the base, 2) spray a 75% base/25% clear mixture, 3) spray a 50%/50% mixture, 4) spray a 25% base/75% clear mixture and then spray the 100% clear. Again I may have the number of apps and the ratios off but you get the general idea. I also don't know if it was 1 or 2 or the 100% clear at the end. But it looked good. Yes I'll bet it would be hard to replicate for a repair. Kevin said that the method allowed the light to enter and bounce around a little. I am not advocating it just reporting what I saw. As someone said earlier Kevin seems to know his stuff. There is another TV show "Two Guys with A-D-D" however that advocate protecting bare metal with ATF while doing body work. I am guessing that is wrong.
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:09 PM   #20
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

not sure how wrong but can't see how adding any kind of lubricate to bare metal can make for better paint job. Seesm like idiot test if you do same your idiot. I would think a coat of cheap rattle can primer would be lots better that that.
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Old 08-29-2010, 12:09 PM   #21
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

Kevin does know his stuff, I've got his DVD's. But in this case he sort of did a cheapo tri-coat paintjob or candy. I imagine it did look great, but would be hard to repair... If I wanted the look though, I'd just use regular candy in my 'midcoat' instead of mixing various ratio's of clear and basecoat... That's me though...
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Old 08-29-2010, 01:08 PM   #22
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

So far seems like Steveinvegas and randyl1966 seem to have same ideas on it that I was thinking myself. I mentioned the show to get few comments on his way of doing it. Never counted on that much controversy over it. I think the perfect body work smooth base caot and 3 or 4 coats of clear followed by sand ing and buffing w/more coats of clear to follow would be best or what would give the result Im looking for. Wasn't sure of how many coats and time between steps. Thanks for comments and tips guys
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Old 09-02-2010, 04:19 PM   #23
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

This is what I was trying to say.CLEAR is what gives the DEPTH to the job.
As i said,It's a magnifier and when done in stages,gives depth IF it's done FLAT. When you go spraying multiple coats,you WILL get wave and this effectively SCREWS the "effect" your after.Unless you flatten out the successive coats,your just going to make it worse.
I never could get the vid link to work,so I had no idea "who" did the experiment but with the "process" described,it "could" work IF done "correctly" and would be an absolute nightmare to repair.I've had to repair kandy work and it's a real PITA!!!!Not "impossiable" but a real test to your chops as a painter.
I will however disagree on clearing over SS as it WILL add depth to the paint job.Same principal with the magnification process.
An excellent example is with a great flake job which is done in steps with cutting the flake with each coat and straight clear coats between flake coats.This gives "space" for reflection as well as magnification.Again,NOT something done in a "couple of days".

Case in point.SS.Black 2 coats of clear and 600 wet then graphics,2 coats clear.
Yeah it's a lawnmower but you SEE the DEPTH involved between the "paint" and graphics and final top coat.No "tricks" with airbrushing,just plain laid out and clear between layers.Yes I know Deere is "wrong" but that was intentional LOL..Inside joke.
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Old 09-02-2010, 09:37 PM   #24
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

Nice paint job on the mower but isn't it supposed to be "DEERE" Just messin with ya!
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Old 09-12-2010, 01:09 AM   #25
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Re: best steps for three foot deep paint job

its called QOI quality of image!
sevt how can you call them idiots when you didnt even see the show and anyways they painted a car SS red and then added red SS to the clear and steped it out 50
% and another 50% then another 50% they just added another dimension to the paint A refraction not a reflection because the top coat was translucent (like a candy) not transparent (a clear coat) they are just playing tricks on the eye in the sun. old schoolers know this method well.
also steping out with clear on a blend is what you are supposed to dowith metallics or pearls especially a WET BED blend- apply DBC500 first then over reduced base using dbc500 and reducer some use dx840 there are many ways to do a blend.

most painters dont know how to do a proper blend they just do what works but now that factory paints are more like kandys it is neccessary to do a wet blend. if you can do a proper blend you can blend anything. and now with water borne/based paints you have flip and flop when the base has heavy mettallics.

So to answer your question......lol......proper way to acheive deep paint jobs is not in the topcoat but in the undercoat and substrait
THE MAIN REASON for cloudy or dull paint jobs is using the wrong temperature catalyst or reducer or hardener for the undercoat(primer) basecoat or topcoat(clear) and not allowing proper drying or flashtimes between coats and staying with a system( PPG,DUPONT, BASF, or anyother company) start to finish
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