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Old 07-17-2016, 07:32 PM   #1
Fiftee3
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Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

So I need help again. Installing Welder Series 4 link. Not sure where to or how much to trim off the front large flat steel triangle under the front of the bed, And or some of the material under it. Any pics would be much appreciated.
Tried a few searches, came up empty...As always, Thanks!!!

The area in question is the left side of this photo...
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Old 07-17-2016, 07:50 PM   #2
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

Can't give you exact advice but give Paul (Paul Horton's/Welder Series) a call on Monday and see what he thinks. I asked him a question on his engine mounts and he was helpful. Sorry can't help more.
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Old 07-18-2016, 09:39 AM   #3
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

I would think the length of the bars or radius rods would determine placement of the brackets forward of the axel. If it were me I would center the rear axel in notch were the axel is suppose at correct wheelbase measurement at ride height. Next use a square tube and temp weld axle to frame solid at ride height to hold it centered in frame, next determine bag or spring mount. Measure evenly and diagonally for forward placement of forward mounts remembering to keep everything at ride height and decide if diagonal stock frame supports need trimming.
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Old 07-18-2016, 03:48 PM   #4
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

Iowaboynca,
Yes, I thought that too, however, every application is different. I am bagging mine so it may sit lower than some
R Dude,
Thanks for the input. Good advise toset up rear which I will be doing soon.

I guess I was looking for some input on other that have done 4 links specifically on the 47-54. Was hoping to see the area here...
I think i need to cut top plate along red line, and then down onto the lower piece along the red line on the right. Is there any issues cutting this out?
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This is the mount
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Here is where it is going to go, approx...
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Old 07-18-2016, 05:07 PM   #5
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

well, if I could just say, dont put a 4 link bracket where it FITS, put it where it belongs.

put the truck at ride height using jackstands. it helps if the front is already together and sitting on its own weight of engine, front end, etc. with the truck at ride height and the axle rolled under with the tires you plan on using on it (or you can cut wooden wheels from plywood at the right diameter) you want to set the lower bar as close as parallel to the ground. this is how you determine your bracket position.

without a lot of fancy suspension talk, put simply, you do this so that the force applied to the chassis by the rear end is in a straight line with the chassis. if the lower bar is pointing down, the truck will squat (y component force of down) and if it is pointing up the truck will lift (y component of force of up) when under acceleration. the opposite will happen under braking.

the main reason you want the lowers parallel at ride height though is so that the arc of operation is at its most stable point, centered, to minimize the rear end steering the truck when one wheel goes over a bump. if the lower bars are pointing up or down at ride height, there is a chance when going over a bump that the upper bar will pull on the rear end and shorten the wheelbase slightly just on that side, steering the truck the way a little red wagon is steered.

looks like they position the upper bars for you based on the bracket you show. the position of the upper and lower determine where the center of applied force is with respect to the chassis. good luck
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Old 07-18-2016, 08:30 PM   #6
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

Joedoh,
Thank you for the input. I do understand the lower link should be parallel. The links are already cut and threaded to length. The front brace is going to be in the approx location in the photos.
My question is, am I ok cutting thru that top plate by the red left side line and then down along the right side line, removing that chunk/section.
Then continuing on with boxing in so as to have a place to weld that bracket on.
It will not mount anywhere the way it is now.
That factory support seems very strong. Am I compromising anything?
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Old 07-18-2016, 08:58 PM   #7
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

sorry, answered more than you asked.

trimming that bracket wont affect the structure of the frame at all, especially since you are boxing it in.
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Old 07-18-2016, 11:46 PM   #8
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

Trucks did a Welder Series Triangular 4 link install on a 53.

http://www.powerblocktv.com/episode/...3#.V42iZ_krKUk
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:48 AM   #9
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

heres mine.. same kit you have from welders series..my frame rail is 6" yours looks to be 5" i assume.. you may want to fab up a extension to give your frame the 6-7" thats needed to give the bracket the support and strength thats needed, also place your truck at the ride height you want, tack on the 4 link mount to your axle, then assemble the bars on to your mount that goes to the frame .. you want to have the bars going parallel to the ground or frame, then tack the mount to the frame you can then tweak everything to make sure its all good and level . that mount that goes to the frame all depends on your ride height , mine is riding pretty low , if yours is going to be higher then your have to move the frame mount lower and add more suport.. some may say the bars dont have to be level with the ground or frame....maybe so.. just has a better aesthetic look in my opinion

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Last edited by slammed57; 07-20-2016 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 07-20-2016, 10:56 AM   #10
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

Just watched that 'Trucks' link. I miss that show.

They don't show it, but it appears they weld the passenger's side upper link tab to the cast part of the rear-end housing.

Is this kosher? I will have the same problem, and was thinking of flipping my triangulation. Thoughts? Joe?
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Old 07-20-2016, 11:49 AM   #11
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

dont weld to cast unless you know what you are doing. in that case it looks like only the very back of the inside bracket is on the cast, so the rest might be welded to the tube.
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Old 07-20-2016, 03:06 PM   #12
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

It's hard to tell, and they don't address it. I have this same 8.8 rear end, with the offset to the passenger's side. It would be easier to weld to the pumpkin where needed.
Been researching welding to cast. Apparently could be cast iron or steel.

Anyone have any experience with this? I would be welding with a mig if I do it this way.

Seems like it might be easier than reworking my upper mount brackets, and then building another cross member for upper bars to connect to.

I would also be interested if anyone has built or bought an axle truss (correct terminology?).
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Old 07-20-2016, 03:48 PM   #13
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

He is not going triangulated or did his post get hijacked?


Quote:
Originally Posted by b-mac View Post
It's hard to tell, and they don't address it. I have this same 8.8 rear end, with the offset to the passenger's side. It would be easier to weld to the pumpkin where needed.
Been researching welding to cast. Apparently could be cast iron or steel.

Anyone have any experience with this? I would be welding with a mig if I do it this way.

Seems like it might be easier than reworking my upper mount brackets, and then building another cross member for upper bars to connect to.

I would also be interested if anyone has built or bought an axle truss (correct terminology?).
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Old 07-20-2016, 03:54 PM   #14
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rude Dude View Post
He is not going triangulated ?
You are right, his bracket would indicate 4 bar parallel link. He would also need a panhard bar with this setup.
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Old 07-20-2016, 04:59 PM   #15
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

Hijacked... sorry

I had similar questions, and he had a lot of responses.
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Old 07-23-2016, 05:41 PM   #16
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

Slammed 57 /
Yes, I hate you! Your build is awesome! Holy crap.Very nice! So, the reason I love these forum sites is every now and then you get some good input. Sometimes to others, it is obvious on what needs to be done, or common sense. But, sometimes you just need a little help or idea from another.
You helped me for sure. My main post was only because I wasn't sure if I could cut that brace, but I went for it. And, as you had mentioned, I extended the lower length of the plate to give me more than enough to mount the front 4 link mount. See here...

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going to weld in tomorrow.

Hey Rude dude, thanks for shielding my post from hijackers!

Joedoh, no need to ever apologize. I appreciate all help and comments. You were right, I cut thru that spot no problem. This is all new to me. I kinda suck at this fabrication stuff compered to all you out there, but I'm trying!

B-mac, no worries. If you got help thru my post, We're all good then!
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Old 07-23-2016, 08:39 PM   #17
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

I've welded cast iron before
You need to pre-heat the metal with torches and use a temperature paint stick to know when it was hot enough. Then welded like normal with a mig.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...on-detail.aspx
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Old 07-23-2016, 08:43 PM   #18
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

Thanks for the kind words bud.. Just tryin to do the best with what I have... looks like you got it now, lookin good! I know what you mean about the fourm.. lotta good people here and great ideas... keep building I'll be whatchin. good luck brother
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Old 07-24-2016, 01:14 AM   #19
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XYZsniper View Post
I've welded cast iron before
You need to pre-heat the metal with torches and use a temperature paint stick to know when it was hot enough. Then welded like normal with a mig.
I hope you used nickel wire in your MIG, because copper plated steel wire will make a brittle weld. If you did, it just stresses the point I made above, dont weld cast unless you know what you are doing, which you clearly do.
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Old 07-24-2016, 10:27 AM   #20
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joedoh View Post
I hope you used nickel wire in your MIG, because copper plated steel wire will make a brittle weld. If you did, it just stresses the point I made above, dont weld cast unless you know what you are doing, which you clearly do.
It was decades ago and now that I think about it, maybe the kit did come with arc welding rod instead of wire. So I apologize for that mis-spoken statement.
Clearly.
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Old 07-24-2016, 10:47 AM   #21
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

no worries! I knew there would be someone who would ignore the "pre-heat and check temp with paint sticks" and only read the "used a normal mig" and say SHOOOOOOT I can do THAT.

welding to cast (the wrong way) is a good way to remove that part of cast from the casting, especially if it is under any sort of load, like in a suspension tab type arraignment. I have seen a lot of guys do it though.
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Old 08-14-2016, 06:01 PM   #22
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

so moving along slowly on 4 Link.

Question Here...

Should bottom bar be level with frame (slight rake/higher in rear)
Or level with ground...Just want to be sure before I weld. Have everything sitting right. Measured about 50 times...have backache!

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I also cut the Welder Series plates to sit more straight with the mount on the rear end.

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Keep in mind I am running a 235. Probably have about 80 Ground Pounding Horsepower at the rear wheels!!! So I wont be able to light-em up on an oil spill, but It's gonna look good!
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Old 08-14-2016, 06:13 PM   #23
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

I've been reading on 3 and 4 link and if my memory is right you want your bottom bar parallel to the ground.heres a article on it..ron sutton is the man on this...http://www.pro-touring.com/archive/i.../t-100779.html
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Old 08-14-2016, 06:18 PM   #24
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

Yep.. I just skimmed down thru it and he says level with ground...its some good reading..
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Old 08-14-2016, 07:03 PM   #25
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Re: Help on 4 Link install, Pics? Pointers?

Yep.. level with the ground if you can.. lookin real good for what you mocked up so far.
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