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Old 05-20-2018, 12:32 PM   #1
FAKKY
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4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap

Bought a 4WD hummer lq4/4l65e with goals of selling and buying a new rebuilt 4l80e. Didn't get any good offers and everything in combo was so low mile/clean decided to
do the swap with help from people on here and ls1tech and videos on youtube. First time in a trans. Wil lbe stock to stock+cam build.

TEARDOWN - not going to take as many pics and rebuild will be a video. Its well documented - but here are the steps and some pics.
Assumes mostly transmission is upside down with input to your left and tail housing to you right.

STEPS
====

Remove external like vent tubes and shaft selector electronics on side.
Level trans tailshaft end with 4x4 or similar so pan is near level.
Remove pan and gasket - 13mm from memory around 12 bolts.
Remove 2-4 servo on sde. Get a soft hammer and tap and remove snap ring. Place locking pliers on lip of cover an pull out - get a pick and pull up on oring until it thens out enough whislt pulling pliers till assembly removes. Remove entire assembly (3-4 pieces and apply pin etc and bag).

Disconnect all wiring harness tabs you can see carefully with screwdriver.
Remove retaining clip on the Pulse Width Modulator which sits on top of the TCC solenoid on bottom left corner near dickstip hole. Its kinda tricky I used a pick and then a screwdriver. Remove PWM and retaining clip and bag.

Remove 2x10mm bolts on TCC holddown and bag. Twist and pullup TCC and move it over to the side of case (flip and hang).


Remove Detent spring by shift lever on top - 13mm.

NOW VB
======

17 bolts total. 3x8mm on lower right by rear shaft. Rest are 10mm. 3 on top of the manifold pressure switch are longer. The bottom 2 on same switch remain.
Lift VB carefully and slowly and turnover and place in pan.Remove manual link or if it falls bag it.

Remove 7 checkballs with a magnet and bag.

Remove 3x10mm bolts on 3/4 accumalator housing in bottom right. Hold main gasket near edge and tilt/pry off and remove and bag.
Remove stiffener plate - 3x 10mm bolts and bag.

Remove seperator plate and the 2 gaskets (1 each side) and place in pan.

Remove the #8 checkball near the 3/4 accumulator with magnet and place with others.

Remove the 3/4 accumulator piston spring, then gently rotate and pry on the piston using the pin by rotating and rocking. Had to remove pin to let air vacuum out but then came ok. Bag.

Remove wiring harness by pusing the connector through the transmission whilst gently pulling on wiring harness. Or use a large socket. Dont brake teh retaining clips. Bag.


PUMP and Iput/Reverse Assembly Removal
======================================

Remove the Pump by gently prying on inside of the case - you will seea few points - keep it even and gently pry out whilst supporting and pulling with other hand.
Mine had the case outer seal - removed that with a screwdriver.
Relaxed the band by prying against it with a screwdriver - band is now seperated from anchor.
Pulled the input/reversinput drum ut by hand whilst supporting.
Remove the Band.
Remove the band anchor.



Some pics.











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Old 05-20-2018, 12:36 PM   #2
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Re: 4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap



Upside down in reference to thread ..... 3/4 accumulator is in bottom right not top left - the large thing in top left in this pic (housing is removed - piston is still in) next to hole where trans harness plug was.
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Old 05-20-2018, 12:39 PM   #3
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Re: 4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap







PUMP OUT







Input/Reverse Input drum out and band out.


Stopping here ....... have a question ...... does the shift selector assembly need to be removed ? Not sure.
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Old 05-20-2018, 01:33 PM   #4
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Re: 4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap

You do not have to remove the linkage to go any further into the trans...

Once you remove the snap ring from the front 5 pinion planet you should be able to pull the front planet, 3/4 clutch hub, sun shell, and sun gear out of the case...the output shaft will come out at this time.

You can pull the snap ring for the center support to check the sprag and the low and reverse clutches/steels.

watch for the anti clunk spring between the case and center support.....having fun !!!
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Old 05-20-2018, 01:39 PM   #5
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Re: 4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap

Just want to add a note here to indicate that you don't have to remove the VB to change out the output shaft, some may want to install a shift kit to improve the trans which requires the VB to be removed...but if you are "only" changing the output shaft the VB does not have to be removed....Thanks.
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Old 05-20-2018, 01:45 PM   #6
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Re: 4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungPup1977 View Post
You do not have to remove the linkage to go any further into the trans...

Once you remove the snap ring from the front 5 pinion planet you should be able to pull the front planet, 3/4 clutch hub, sun shell, and sun gear out of the case...the output shaft will come out at this time.

You can pull the snap ring for the center support to check the sprag and the low and reverse clutches/steels.

watch for the anti clunk spring between the case and center support.....having fun !!!
Thanks for confirming on the shift linkage.
Snap ring for shaft might be my stalling point - dont have any lock ring pliers - might run out and see if I can find some. Its tight in there.

Thoughts on the amount of clutch material - seems about normal - but not a lot of reference points. Was just going to check 3/4 clutches ......


Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungPup1977 View Post
Just want to add a note here to indicate that you don't have to remove the VB to change out the output shaft, some may want to install a shift kit to improve the trans which requires the VB to be removed...but if you are "only" changing the output shaft the VB does not have to be removed....Thanks.
Good tip. Wasnt 100% sure because of some of those longer bolts through VB ...... but also thought I might end up replacing more than I think basically a full rebuild with all clutches depending how it rurns out with confidence level and making a few tools.
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Old 05-20-2018, 01:56 PM   #7
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Re: 4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap

Since you have it apart I would go ahead and pull out the 3/4, forward, and the overrun clutches/steels.....and the reverse input drum clutches and steels....if you planning on installing a shift kit you will have to take the reverse input drum piston out of the drum to drill out the orifices (shift kit instructions will indicate this)

As far as the bolts for the VB, there are three 8 MM bolts that you removed, these are critical to where they go back....once you start installing the VB we can address that at that time...

Great stuff....
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Old 05-20-2018, 02:05 PM   #8
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Here is pic of snap ring pliers you will need
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Old 05-20-2018, 02:56 PM   #9
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Re: 4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap

Those pliers YoungPup posted are $75 a pair. These amazon pliers are fine. Snap On pr15 works too.
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:45 PM   #10
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Re: 4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap

Thanks Youngpup/BigDav

Remove Planetary/Roller Gear Train and Shaft
==============================================

Remove Output shaft lock ring using special lock ring pliers. Tight and hard.

Remove 5 pinion (4l65e) planetary forward gear set.
Remove Ring gear hub and reassable on top of 5 pinion forward planetary on bench with bearings.

Remove Sunshell.
Remove large Centre Support/Roller clutch housing snap ring. Remove Rear 5 pinion planetary sun gear.

Remove Shaft
============

Small tap of shaft from behind witll push low/reverse clutch housing/center support forward and case silencer will fall to bottom.
You can now remove shaft from back. I found I had to pull from front and then bang it again to seperate from roller clutch housing.

Remove rear planet carrier and thrust bearing.
Remove reverse clutch pack - think it was 5 clutches and 5 steels and 1 wavy ring.

Remove output ring gear and thrust bearing and case silencer ring.


Lay all out in order on table.


This is it - ready for reassembly (unless you are replacing the low reverse piston which requires a compression tool).


pics













Shaft I pulled forward with the roller clutch housing hgub and banged again to seperate. typically could take out direct from back.






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Old 05-20-2018, 07:23 PM   #11
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Re: 4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap

So ...... from dissasembly looks pretty much as expected - clean transmission with no damage for 69k miles.
Only small question is amount of clutch material if normal or not.

So some questions.
I think I could get by with just a gasket/seal kit --- but I might go with more of a overhaul ...... stock HP (270 RWHP or maybe a cam 325RWHP).


q1) Since I cant see any heat on steels - reuse ?

q2) Thoughts on clutch material ?

q3) Either of these kits ? Or other ?


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trutech-Alt...19.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4L60E-4L65E...19.m1438.l2649

Not planning on replacing bushig baced on inspection. Pistons - not sure.


q4) Its a 4l65e with supposefly hardended sunsheel. Shall I jsut replace with sonnax smartshell anyway https://www.ebay.com/i/323070772591?chn=ps

q5) When I switch shaft and housing. What VSS do I use. Can I use the same 4WD one ...... or need a differnt one for 2WD.

q6) Stock, corvette or sonnax 2-4 servo.

Anything else for mild refresh/build ?

thanks !
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:52 PM   #12
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Re: 4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap

I had to post the pic of my snap ring pliers, I have owned those for over 35 years.....didnt have a clue on the 75 dollar hit, snap-on guy would love that....my pliers have paid for themselves thousands times over....

But as far as the kit, I would just buy a kit with clutches if I was you, this way you are not buying items you most likely will not use...you mentioned not replacing the bushings... how are the 3/4 steels/clutches ?

If you plan on replacing the bonded pistons in the forward drum you will need a spring compressor or fab one up.... not sure how much those cost so I leave that one up to you...

As far as the 2/4 servo, either corvette or sonnax is good stuff....are you buying the transgo shift kit, if you do it will instruct you on how to modify the 2/4 servo...

Do you have the tail housing for the 2wd ? the VSS bolts into the tail housing which I believe on the 4wd is it not in the Transfer case ?

You can reuse the sunshell, it has the torrington bearing and would hold up to your application.
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:00 PM   #13
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Re: 4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap

No worries on snapring - gives me a better idea of "style". The ones I got worked but had an interference think I will take back and get a better pair used off ebay.

Thinking the same on the clutches/reseal gasket kit only. Not sure on pistons only I saee a few hairlines things on reverse piston and hard to discern if hairline crack or poor casting. I think poor casting but to be safe -- etc.

Not planning on shift kit (dont want to mess around with line pressure - figure I can always do it later if I have to). Unless the consistent vote is I am a fool to not do so

Thanks on the sunshell. Its what I heard for 4l65e just wasnt sure.

I will buy the 2WD tailhousing, seal and shaft locally. There is a VSS in transfercase - just not sure if same as the shafts are different etc.

thanks agin youngpup - appreciate yours/others experiences here to help make decisions and help spot issues. !!
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Old 05-21-2018, 07:01 AM   #14
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Re: 4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by FAKKY View Post
No worries on snapring - gives me a better idea of "style". The ones I got worked but had an interference think I will take back and get a better pair used off ebay.

Thinking the same on the clutches/reseal gasket kit only. Not sure on pistons only I saee a few hairlines things on reverse piston and hard to discern if hairline crack or poor casting. I think poor casting but to be safe -- etc.

Not planning on shift kit (dont want to mess around with line pressure - figure I can always do it later if I have to). Unless the consistent vote is I am a fool to not do so

Thanks on the sunshell. Its what I heard for 4l65e just wasnt sure.

I will buy the 2WD tailhousing, seal and shaft locally. There is a VSS in transfercase - just not sure if same as the shafts are different etc.

thanks agin youngpup - appreciate yours/others experiences here to help make decisions and help spot issues. !!
I would suggest to install a shift kit in this transmission since you have removed the VB, it makes these 4L60E's last much longer. transgo "orange box" shift kit....its not hard to install and its under 50 bucks, its worth the money spent....

The VSS are different on the 4wd vs 2wd, on the 2wd the VSS bolts into the tail housing, not real sure if they have the same electrical plug.
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Old 05-21-2018, 07:40 AM   #15
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Re: 4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap

Thanks.

I guess I can compare the size and teeth on the shafts to see if they are different ...... but makes sense ........ not sure what needs to be flashed in PCM either from 4WD to 2WD. Will find out.
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:42 PM   #16
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Re: 4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap

If I wanted to change the bushings ....with the brass ones in kit

Would a HF bearing driver kit and a press do most of them ?

Just debating on forking out $140 on press and $40 on drivers to have one and use for this job. Then be useful for others.

You like any clutch over another for 3-4.
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:18 PM   #17
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Re: 4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by FAKKY View Post
If I wanted to change the bushings ....with the brass ones in kit

Would a HF bearing driver kit and a press do most of them ?

Just debating on forking out $140 on press and $40 on drivers to have one and use for this job. Then be useful for others.

You like any clutch over another for 3-4.
No need to buy a press, the bushings do not require a press to install them...people who use a press to install bushings most likely break things. The case bushing, the sun gear bushing (sonnax wide bushing) and pump bushing needs replaced, those are the most critical ones, so start there. the Stator bushings that fit onto the input shaft should be OK to use, but check them anyways.

I use red eagle clutches in my builds but you can use others if you like. not required...
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Old 05-30-2018, 10:36 PM   #18
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Re: 4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap

If you rebuild the pump you can test fit onto the torque converter snout. That way you know it fits prior to installation. Also test fit the sun gear (with new bushing)on the shaft it runs on.
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Old 05-30-2018, 10:42 PM   #19
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Re: 4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap

Always change the pump bushing
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:18 AM   #20
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Re: 4l60e/4l65e/4l70e 4WD to 2WD shaft swap

Its like installing cam bearings in a engine, always use a camshaft to test fit your cam bearings in the block.....most can relate to engine building technics which are no different with trans building.....no one needs a tight bushing/bearing on a rebuild....

how about always replace all bushings in a transmission, when you say rebuilt, what are you going to do only rebuild half of it.... when people rebuild an engine do they only put main bearings in it, oh wait, we are talking about this forum correct ? LOL!!!!! ego's to add....

Last edited by YoungPup1977; 06-03-2018 at 11:05 PM.
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