Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

[ncpetersc]

CARB QUESTIONS:

The consensus seems to be that this carb is messed up. I am going to try to ask for a refund on the rebuild but want to make sure I have my ducks in a row.

Before AussieinNC noticed my distributor out of place, it was seeping fuel, and I did see fuel puddling at the accelerator pump. But since working on the timing, I have not seen it. So...

Question 1: Could the timing have cause the fuel seeping/puddling, or should a newly rebuilt carb basically never do this?

Question 2: Is this new problem with the carb making sucking sounds an indication that it was not done right?

Question 3: Are there other things you guys saw in pictures or my experience that lead you to believe the carb was not rebuilt correctly?

In the end, I am sure I will have to eat the loss, and chalk it up to "experience" as someone put it. But I am going to call them and try to get a refund. Gotta give it a shot. I just hope they don't say, "bring it in, we'll re-do it". Don't think I want to go back there.

So in the meantime I guess its time to start researching sources for a new one or rebuild deal. A GOOD ONE!

Thank you all again, and HAPPY 4TH OF JULY!

[dmjlambert]

Originally Posted by ncpetersc

Thanks again! It's way better than it was. Still taking steps backwards it seems, but I'll post the latest in another post.

Regarding the oil, I checked and level seems ok, but I do think the dipstick smelled like fuel. I'll try to remember to refer back to this when I get the carb taken care of. I gotta figure out how to proceed there.

The concensus seems to be that it is just wrong. Thanks to all for tips on where to potentially get a rebuild or a new one.

Fuel filter: It's a hard line going into the carb. Recommendation on where exactly to add one?

Thanks again, and happy 4th!

I think you will find it not too daunting to take the carburetor off and to the work bench, and take the top off of it, carefully remove the gasket, and check the needle where it clips to the float to make sure it is clipped right. This is what geezer#99 mentioned in post #40.

https://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/...at.2Ffuel_bowl

And check the float level and correct if necessary. You would not be getting into the inner workings of the carb very much. You may be closer than you think to taking care of the flooding issue. Post the carburetor part number, and post pictures of it, and ask questions if you need to as you go. Don't over-tighten screws on the carb.

The Quadrajet has the filter built in to the inlet, so you don't need to add an external filter. If you add a filter, don't use a clear plastic one, use a metal one, and put it inline with the rubber hose that goes between the frame and the fuel pump, that would put the filter on the no pressure side of the fuel pump. But I really don't think you need one with a Quadrajet. If the internal filter is getting too much rust or dirt in it too often, then you just have to fix that problem, such as clean out and seal up or replace your gas tank.

If you take care of the flooding, then change the oil and proceed with other things. My 2 cents.

[dmjlambert]

Originally Posted by ncpetersc

Question 1: Could the timing have cause the fuel seeping/puddling, or should a newly rebuilt carb basically never do this?

Timing would not cause the fuel problem. A newly rebuilt carb will not flood, however the rebuilder could have made a mistake such as clip the needle on the float improperly as geezer#99 said in post #40.

Just another 2 cents...

[AussieinNC]

The reason I always put inline filters between the pump and carb is to catch the tiny diaphragm pieces that flake off in these old fuel pumps and systems. Always use a metal style inline filter, never plastic...they split and leak fuel...usually at the worst of times.

Yes, Quadrajets usually have a filter in the inlet fuel fitting, but seeing the quality of the carb rebuild I can almost guarantee the inlet filter is not in place.

If the fuel inlet fitting filter is missing and junk has come thru and partially blocked the seat...the flooding will be an easy fix.

I would be willing to bet that if you can get the carb off and open on a clean bench space, take the top off and post us a pic of the top turned over so we can see the float and needle...we can guide you to fix it yourself...

I dont suggest you try and get the top off with the carb on the engine...too many small items could fall into the engine.

When you take the carb off, put a clean piece of rag over the manifold to stop items falling into the engine.

[AussieinNC]

You can simply cut the hard line where it comes up from the pump, usually near the water pump bolt...cut out about 4" of hard line to make room for the new filter. Use screw type hose clamps and good quality fuel hose. Usually 5/16" is a good fit on standard hard lines.

[panhead59]

You're getting very good info. The hei dist. Issue just gets rid of points, provides a hotter spark and eliminates other issues like worn bearings etc. A definite upgrade but not a necessity. Very cost effective though. Your carb issues can Possibly be fixed by you or someone else. A lot of people just replace the darn thing and be done with it. But you may want to attempt the repair yourself. You are getting so many responses because you do your homework and address things people suggest. You will get there. Keep up the good work.

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by dmjlambert

I think you will find it not too daunting to take the carburetor off and to the work bench, and take the top off of it, carefully remove the gasket, and check the needle where it clips to the float to make sure it is clipped right. This is what geezer#99 mentioned in post #40.

https://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/...at.2Ffuel_bowl

And check the float level and correct if necessary. You would not be getting into the inner workings of the carb very much. You may be closer than you think to taking care of the flooding issue. Post the carburetor part number, and post pictures of it, and ask questions if you need to as you go. Don't over-tighten screws on the carb.

The Quadrajet has the filter built in to the inlet, so you don't need to add an external filter. If you add a filter, don't use a clear plastic one, use a metal one, and put it inline with the rubber hose that goes between the frame and the fuel pump, that would put the filter on the no pressure side of the fuel pump. But I really don't think you need one with a Quadrajet. If the internal filter is getting too much rust or dirt in it too often, then you just have to fix that problem, such as clean out and seal up or replace your gas tank.

If you take care of the flooding, then change the oil and proceed with other things. My 2 cents.

Okay, well I am going to call the shop and see what they'll do for me. I plan on telling them that besides finding an unplugged port, and choke not connected (sloppy) the thing appears to be flooding. Just going to say I paid for rebuild, and it is clearly not right. Then ask for a refund. I'll let you guys know how that goes.

I found the $198 carb on the net, and I can keep mine for $88 more. Any good or bad experiences with guaranteedcuarberators? I'll keep looking around (thanks for all the suggestions).

Pulling the carb off? Now I am getting worried. But with you're support maybe I'll give it a shot this weekend.

BTW any thoughts/theories of my latest symptom of it running rough and the carb hissing (vac bouncing around 15). But if I cover the air horn it smooths out, stops hissing, and vac returns to 20. Is this another sign the carb isn't right? My divorced choke is still disconnected.

THANKS AGAIN!

[geezer#99]

Look in the carb when it’s running. Use a small flashlight. If you see any fuel at all then it’s flooding.

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Look in the carb when it’s running. Use a small flashlight. If you see any fuel at all then it’s flooding.

Will try to do this today.

Thanks!

[dmjlambert]

The hissing is probably it just drawing in air, which is is supposed to do. When the engine is warmed up, the smaller top choke plate should be fully open and the big one closed. If you cover it to block some of the air from going in, you are changing the air to fuel mixture. The mix should be set properly for good idle, and that is a carb adjustment. So, if you are covering the top of the carb or partially closing the choke plate and it runs better, that is because the engine is not warmed up yet, or the carb is set to run too lean or it is gunked up inside again already, or you have a vacuum leak somewhere that if you fixed it would richen the mixture. A vacuum leak can be around the edges of the carburetor where it mounts to the engine, or in a vacuum device that you have hooked up, or an unplugged vacuum port that you are not using. How many ports do you have on that carburetor, and are the unused ones plugged?

It makes a difference which port you use for the distributor. There is ported vacuum, which has no vacuum at idle, and manifold vacuum, which has vacuum at idle. If your distributor is connected to ported vacuum and then you change it to manifold vacuum port, it will idle faster and probably smoother. The factory put the distributor on ported vacuum to retard the timing and make it more fully burn the fuel when sitting at stop lights, to reduce pollution. Move it to a manifold vacuum port and see how it performs. You may need to turn down the idle speed after doing that.

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by dmjlambert

The hissing is probably it just drawing in air, which is is supposed to do. When the engine is warmed up, the smaller top choke plate should be fully open and the big one closed. If you cover it to block some of the air from going in, you are changing the air to fuel mixture. The mix should be set properly for good idle, and that is a carb adjustment. So, if you are covering the top of the carb or partially closing the choke plate and it runs better, that is because the engine is not warmed up yet, or the carb is set to run too lean or it is gunked up inside again already, or you have a vacuum leak somewhere that if you fixed it would richen the mixture. A vacuum leak can be around the edges of the carburetor where it mounts to the engine, or in a vacuum device that you have hooked up, or an unplugged vacuum port that you are not using. How many ports do you have on that carburetor, and are the unused ones plugged?

It makes a difference which port you use for the distributor. There is ported vacuum, which has no vacuum at idle, and manifold vacuum, which has vacuum at idle. If your distributor is connected to ported vacuum and then you change it to manifold vacuum port, it will idle faster and probably smoother. The factory put the distributor on ported vacuum to retard the timing and make it more fully burn the fuel when sitting at stop lights, to reduce pollution. Move it to a manifold vacuum port and see how it performs. You may need to turn down the idle speed after doing that.

Wow! A lot of information here, thanks!

I am fairly certain the distributor advance is connected to "ported" vacuum.

I'll try to answer more of your questions about # of ports etc. when I get home. I'll take some pictures.

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by Mikes68C10

? If not.... You might want to bite the bullet and pay a pro to do it right.
Here is a highly recommended source specializing in Q-Jets. They can also tune the carb to your application.

FREE QUOTE:
https://cliffshighperformance.com/request-a-quote

BTW: Nice Truck! Sounds like you're on the right track to get the issues resolved. If you can get your money back from the place that rebuilt it, you may have most of the money needed for Cliff's to get it right!

Good luck & Happy Independence Day to all!

Unfortunately Cliff's is showing a rebuild turnaround time of 12 weeks right now. Not sure I want to wait that long, if there are other decent options.

Looking at guaranteedcarbeurators right now, as I have the option to buy and keep my original. Maybe try to learn something on the bench someday.

[geezer#99]

Originally Posted by ncpetersc

Will try to do this today.

Thanks!

When you do also look for the two screws you need to remove when you pull the top off the carb.
Here’sa Quadrajet manual in this list for you. Just open the one you need.
http://www.carburetor-parts.com/Free...ls_ep_274.html

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by dmjlambert

The hissing is probably it just drawing in air, which is is supposed to do. When the engine is warmed up, the smaller top choke plate should be fully open and the big one closed. If you cover it to block some of the air from going in, you are changing the air to fuel mixture. The mix should be set properly for good idle, and that is a carb adjustment. So, if you are covering the top of the carb or partially closing the choke plate and it runs better, that is because the engine is not warmed up yet, or the carb is set to run too lean or it is gunked up inside again already, or you have a vacuum leak somewhere that if you fixed it would richen the mixture. A vacuum leak can be around the edges of the carburetor where it mounts to the engine, or in a vacuum device that you have hooked up, or an unplugged vacuum port that you are not using. How many ports do you have on that carburetor, and are the unused ones plugged?

It makes a difference which port you use for the distributor. There is ported vacuum, which has no vacuum at idle, and manifold vacuum, which has vacuum at idle. If your distributor is connected to ported vacuum and then you change it to manifold vacuum port, it will idle faster and probably smoother. The factory put the distributor on ported vacuum to retard the timing and make it more fully burn the fuel when sitting at stop lights, to reduce pollution. Move it to a manifold vacuum port and see how it performs. You may need to turn down the idle speed after doing that.

Just found this article online (2nd post in the thread), very interesting read. It's got me believing that there is no good reason at all that it shouldn't be on manifold vacuum.

https://www.bangshift.com/forum/foru...vacuum-advance

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

When you do also look for the two screws you need to remove when you pull the top off the carb.
Here’sa Quadrajet manual in this list for you. Just open the one you need.
http://www.carburetor-parts.com/Free...ls_ep_274.html

Thanks geezer#99!

[bMr]

Another rebuilder is http://quadrajetpower.com/ out of Texas. They rebuilt mine, including re-bushing of the throttle shafts and I was happy with the result.

Lots of great advice in this thread, the biggest thing is to just keep at it. It sounds like several variables are in play and methodically working your way through them is the best approach. I agree with others that solving the flooding issue is priority 1.

If you have the time to dive into it--and to be methodical doing it--do what someone else suggested and remove your carb to the bench and check it out. Lots of good material out there on rebuilding to get you through the assembly, including the very important but often overlooked tip about how the needle hangs on the float.

IMO the Qjet isn't complicated but it is nuanced, patience and understanding of its systems will go a long way.

[thedudeabides86]

Originally Posted by Steeveedee

If I was on your side of the continent, I could lend a hand. It just grinds my gears that stuff like this happens and the owner can't get decent help.

Steeveedee,

I'm glad there's guys like you out here on this forum. I'm at my whit's end with a rear brake drum job I'm working on on my C20 and would love to have a volunteer to lend me a hand. I'm a rookie at doing brakes on this truck, even though I changed the motor myself. I never in a million years would've thought I'd change the motor but I did with the help of friends and family. It's reassuring to see people like yourself that feel the pain of struggling gear-heads, so thank you for understanding. I'd fly you and your family out to MN for a semi fabulous vacation out here if I had the money. Haha!

[geezer#99]

Originally Posted by thedudeabides86

Steeveedee,

I'm glad there's guys like you out here on this forum. I'm at my whit's end with a rear brake drum job I'm working on on my C20 and would love to have a volunteer to lend me a hand. I'm a rookie at doing brakes on this truck, even though I changed the motor myself. I never in a million years would've thought I'd change the motor but I did with the help of friends and family. It's reassuring to see people like yourself that feel the pain of struggling gear-heads, so thank you for understanding. I'd fly you and your family out to MN for a semi fabulous vacation out here if I had the money. Haha!

There might be someone in your area.
I say this link somewhere.
You might get lucky and only cost you a beer or three!
https://global.nextdoor.com/?country=in

[thedudeabides86]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

There might be someone in your area.
I say this link somewhere.
You might get lucky and only cost you a beer or three!
https://global.nextdoor.com/?country=in

No such luck in my neighborhood. Thanks for the attempt though.

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by ncpetersc

Wow! A lot of information here, thanks!

I am fairly certain the distributor advance is connected to "ported" vacuum.

I'll try to answer more of your questions about # of ports etc. when I get home. I'll take some pictures.

Attaching pics of ports:
Pic 1: front of carb. The port on the left behind the fuel line is for the choke vac can. Fatter hose under fuel inlet is PCV (drivers side) and smog cannister I think it is referred to. The one on the right T's off to smog cannister and then to PIC 2.

Pic 2: is the solenoid I believe that cuts vacuum at idle as you were talking about? This then goes to the distributor advance can.

Pics 3 & 4: plugged ports, one on passenger side (that was not plugged when I got the truck home from the shop), and one in the rear at the base.

Pic 5: While taking these pictures I think I found the source of the severe hiss/sucking. I think this goes back to my trans vac modulator. Clearly self induced! Feeling pretty stupid I couldn't find that yesterday.


So reconnecting the hose eliminated the hiss and the motor is idling pretty well again. Still shows close to 12 advance at a nice idle around 700 rpm.

THANKS!

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Look in the carb when it’s running. Use a small flashlight. If you see any fuel at all then it’s flooding.

I definitely see something. Got some pictures, but a video may be more informative. I have to figure out how to get one up, we can link to youTube correct?

Thanks!

[Steeveedee]

That carburetor does not appear to have been rebuilt. At all. It certainly shouldn't have all that soot in the primary bores, in any event. If you get any guff from the shop who claims they rebuilt this, refer to your state's version of the Bureau of Automotive Repair. You got ripped off, imo.

The item in Pic 2 is the Transmission Controlled Spark solenoid. It limits vacuum advance until the engine is warmed up (there is a thermostatic switch in line, which may have been removed), and the transmission is in high gear. It helps with quicker warmups and to lower hydrocarbon emissions.

[AussieinNC]

How long ago was this carb supposedly "rebuilt"?

That pic showing inside the air horn tells me the carb was not dipped as part of the rebuild process...I would never perform a rebuild without dipping the entire carb body and top...

There is a considerable amount of built up crud inside the air horn, the air bleeds are filthy and the general condition is poor.

I can see fuel dampness inside the air port indicating the fuel float level is way too high...obviously not correctly set during rebuild.

Its no wonder you are having issues...

Re guaranteedcarburetors experiences...I have purchased 4 Quadrajets over the past 12 months from them...nothing but good results from these guys...
I use these on engine builds for clients and usually supply a wrecker yard second hand one in exchange...(why dont I build them myself ?...sometimes I do but its usually a time crunch situation...I order online, it turns up and works...)

I would be demanding a refund from this shop of horrors....

Just my two cents worth...

[dmjlambert]

Originally Posted by ncpetersc

...reconnecting the hose eliminated the hiss and the motor is idling pretty well again. Still shows close to 12 advance at a nice idle around 700 rpm.

THANKS!

OK so it is all better now? I don't tend to be very harsh on shops, I just don't return for more punishment. But that's me. If they described in detail what they were going to do, and then it is apparent they didn't do it, then that would be cause for me complaining. I like to find shade tree mechanics, like them much better than any shop. Shops have too much overhead and too many people there just clocking hours and thinking it's 5:00 somewhere...

[ncpetersc]

Originally Posted by AussieinNC

How long ago was this carb supposedly "rebuilt"?

I just picked it up a week ago yesterday. June 27th.

I tried to call them today, but got no answer. Hopefully they are just closed for the holiday still... oh man... I am so disappointed.