Is the restorer legally responsible ??

[Coley]

I wonder what this liability stuff means for all the trucks currently being shortened/cut down into short wheel base trucks and lowered with suspension and steering modifications.
A lot of these are resold I imagine....

Coley

[Grumpy old man]

The question I have is these kits sold by aftermarket parts houses to cut a frame Who's liable ?. Z cuts made to drop a frame ? What about the fact these trucks were only designed to have low HP engines and guys are dropping 6-800 hp in a frame designed for 200 ? I'm sure we'll see many lawsuits coming down the pike from buyers who never turned a wrench yet wonder why someone shouldn't cover their inexperience with a modified truck ? It's not really going to boil down to who's "right" but who has the better lawyer ? Sad state of affairs in today's world ...

[jim-bob]

Originally Posted by Coley

I wonder what this liability stuff means for all the trucks currently being shortened/cut down into short wheel base trucks and lowered with suspension and steering modifications.
A lot of these are resold I imagine....

Coley

Thanks Coley for getting back to the OP

[factorystock]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

NOTHING WENT WRONG ! does anyone actually read the entire thread before posting ? This is a WHAT IF thread .

What if a handshake actually ment anything anymore ?

What if someone actually took responsibilities for their own actions ?

What if You actually had insurance to cover your own butt ?

OK OK OK nothing went wrong! However lets try to answer the question if something actually went wrong. This is a great legal question, especially if someone modded a vehicle and sold it. Even if it was sold with an " as is note". Will that hold up in court?

[jocko]

Originally Posted by harpo231

release of liability . helps to have an official hardcopy.

Release of Liability (standard DMV form in most, if not all, states) does not protect you from something like this. It only protects you if the truck you just sold is used by the buyer in an illegal way.

[In The Ten Ring]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

The question I have is these kits sold by aftermarket parts houses to cut a frame Who's liable ?. Z cuts made to drop a frame ? What about the fact these trucks were only designed to have low HP engines and guys are dropping 6-800 hp in a frame designed for 200 ? I'm sure we'll see many lawsuits coming down the pike from buyers who never turned a wrench yet wonder why someone shouldn't cover their inexperience with a modified truck ? It's not really going to boil down to who's "right" but who has the better lawyer ? Sad state of affairs in today's world ...

I see where you're coming from but I also see something else. If a person puts a much more powerful engine into a vehicle designed for much less power and does so knowingly or they should have known (if they are doing the work then they should have known) then I could easily see where that person would be liable, not the buyer. I'm not versed in law but I could see the argument made that a buyer has reason to expect certain things.....

I've done a lot of work on my ski condo but every bit of electrical and plumbing modifications were done with county permit office approval and passed inspection...that was the only way to make sure the insurance paid if there was ever a problem. I'll also bet I am the only condo owner on that mountain that has done so. Anything else I did out there was done on the maxim that it had to take more stress than it took to break it or that it could take more stress than it could ever face.

There are no guarantees in anything these days...people seldom read anything nor do they accept responsibility. CYA is a rule to operate by.

[Aberdare]

OK, I don't know much about OTHER jurisdictions, BUT... here in Canada, the OWNER of a motor vehicle is the one held legally responsible to ensure their vehicle meets the Minimum Requirements for safety... NOT the Contractor, or Sub-Contractor hired to perform the work. FURTHER, As Part of a Safety Inspection, Modifications MUST be Certified by an Industry Professional even BEFORE a Safety Certificate is Issued.

Here in Canada... if you, the owner... do stupid things to, for, with, etc... expect your insurance company to run away from you faster than a mouse chasing a cockroach.

[ho70]

Depends on what it was....did you\they not hook up the brakes. What was the intent of the repair or lack of it? Can they prove it was you\they that did the work or didn't do the work-Hard to prove as maybe someone else removed the item or undid the work. If they can prove you intentionally did something illegal to the vehicle or did unsafe work then yes, but if you were a friend helping out a buddy then probably no. IF you are a certified shop and did illegal work and they can prove it was you-yes. Hard to prove all of that. Good luck

[ls1nova71]

Originally Posted by jocko

I do the release of liability online in case I just sold a getaway vehicle to bonnie & clyde.

You're from Texas, you should know bonnie and Clyde would have never bought a getaway car!

Originally Posted by factorystock

In the mid 70's, GM had a problem with the location of there gas tanks on there pickups. After serious explosions, GM was sued for bad design. Ford had a similar situation with there Pintos. I'm sure GM and Ford said they weren't responsible. But, they were the builders of the product that was claimed to be unsafe. Did I forget to mention the Corvair in the 60's? Again, we need to know exactly want went wrong to go any further.

Pretty sure all of these have been proved over the years that they were not as bad as they were made out to be. Just the companies paying people off to get them off their backs. Some of the tests were rigged on the Chevy trucks, and Corvairs were not an unsafe car despite what Ralphie said...

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

What if a handshake actually meant anything anymore ?

What if someone actually took responsibilities for their own actions ?

What if You actually had insurance to cover your own butt ?

What?? Be responsible for my own actions?? By myself??

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

The question I have is these kits sold by aftermarket parts houses to cut a frame Who's liable ?. Z cuts made to drop a frame ? What about the fact these trucks were only designed to have low HP engines and guys are dropping 6-800 hp in a frame designed for 200 ? I'm sure we'll see many lawsuits coming down the pike from buyers who never turned a wrench yet wonder why someone shouldn't cover their inexperience with a modified truck ? It's not really going to boil down to who's "right" but who has the better lawyer ? Sad state of affairs in today's world ...

This pretty much sums up this whole thread.

Originally Posted by jocko

Release of Liability (standard DMV form in most, if not all, states) does not protect you from something like this. It only protects you if the truck you just sold is used by the buyer in an illegal way.

Well damn..... This thread is making my head hurt......

Originally Posted by In The Ten Ring

I see where you're coming from but I also see something else. If a person puts a much more powerful engine into a vehicle designed for much less power and does so knowingly or they should have known (if they are doing the work then they should have known) then I could easily see where that person would be liable, not the buyer. I'm not versed in law but I could see the argument made that a buyer has reason to expect certain things.....

There are no guarantees in anything these days...people seldom read anything nor do they accept responsibility. CYA is a rule to operate by.

I think that most people buying a vehicle that has been modified with a more powerful engine are aware of it, and actually get what they expect. But, if they do something stupid, that you could do with any car, and wipe it out, they want to pass the blame onto someone else...... So you're right, need to CYA, but after reading this whole thread, there is no real answer in how to do so?

Originally Posted by ho70

Depends on what it was....did you\they not hook up the brakes. What was the intent of the repair or lack of it? Can they prove it was you\they that did the work or didn't do the work-Hard to prove as maybe someone else removed the item or undid the work. If they can prove you intentionally did something illegal to the vehicle or did unsafe work then yes, but if you were a friend helping out a buddy then probably no. IF you are a certified shop and did illegal work and they can prove it was you-yes. Hard to prove all of that. Good luck

Good point! It would be hard to prove that any of the work that was done was done by the seller, since it's custom work. Unless you have very detailed pictures of everything I guess. But even then, it doesn't mean someone didn't come behind you and re-do something improperly. It really would boil down to who has the better lawyer........ FML....

[davepl]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

NOTHING WENT WRONG ! does anyone actually read the entire thread before posting ? This is a WHAT IF thread .

What if a handshake actually ment anything anymore ?

What if someone actually took responsibilities for their own actions ?

What if You actually had insurance to cover your own butt ?

I've been alive long enough to know that the difference between a handshake in 1967 and a handshake in 2017 is the sideburns on the guy in 1967.

This notion that people all used to be upstanding, trustworthy citizens is hilarious to me.

[Rich69shortfleet]

Originally Posted by davepl

I've been alive long enough to know that the difference between a handshake in 1967 and a handshake in 2017 is the sideburns on the guy in 1967.

This notion that people all used to be upstanding, trustworthy citizens is hilarious to me.

Ain't that the truth!

[bill3rail]

Originally Posted by jim-bob

... I'm having two being restored now, ones a shop for total restorations only and the other is a BackYard Garage.
nothing mention on it.
I'm going to ask them what their take is on this..thought I get some of your happenings on it..like I said at the beginning..just wondering

Thanks Fellows

Do Not Ask Anything! You may be hauling your projects to other shops.

Bill

[bill3rail]

Originally Posted by Coley

I wonder what this liability stuff means for all the trucks currently being shortened/cut down into short wheel base trucks and lowered with suspension and steering modifications.
A lot of these are resold I imagine....

Coley

I am not an attorney, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night!

Get an attorney!

[weq92f]

Originally Posted by Rich69shortfleet

Kind of sad that he won in a way (sorry that he got hurt but I'm making a point here). If he wasn't aware of the capabilities of a modified vehicle before he swung a leg over it and drove away I'd think he AT LEAST should share in the liability.

But honestly, who designs a modified bike that can't take a reasonable corner without dragging the frame on the ground? (which is what I suspect was the problem) But then, who buys and rides one without knowing what it can and cannot do?

Just for a bit of clarification:

In this case, it was a frame modification. The turn radius reduction was unknown until the accident, by all parties involved. It was not a dealer or shop but rather a sale between individuals.

The reduction wasn't much as the frame was lowered only slightly. The accident site was on a very tight curve on a mountain road and it occurred quite a while after the original sale of the bike. Experienced rider. He knew the bike should have made the turn.

-klb

[raggedjim]

This is my new reason for never selling anything.

Rg

[StorminNorman]

Make a sticker and put it on the visor like the Mfg's did to SUV's back in the 90's.
"Caution this vehicle is dangerous do not drive it at all"

[truckster]

In today's litigious USA there are plentiful personal injury attorneys who will sue anybody for any reason or for no reason at all. If you ship a product on FedEx and the FedEx truck gets in an accident, if the attorney thinks you have deep pockets he might just come after you. And juries are absolutely insane when it comes to injury awards.

The correct answer is that anyone who owned, worked on, supplied parts for, or had anything to do with the truck (or failed to do something), whether they're the owner, driver, mechanic, or a buddy who helped someone out, could be held liable in a US court.

Sad but true.