47-55.1 Camber angle

[mick53]

I am having the straight front axle on my 53 1/2 ton pickup altered along with 57 Bel Air 2" drop spindles so I can put my 12.88 Wilwood disk brakes on them. This is a driver that might end up on the strip if I am passing by at check in time. I have done some searching and some say negative and some say positive angle. I'm running EPAS electric power steering. I plan on running 8" wide tall tires. I believe the blown 292 weighs less than the 235 even with the 4-71 blower. I need an angle to give to my fabricator. Thank you for your time and advice.

[MARTINSR]

I am very confused, a truck axle and 57 "drop spindles" don't go together, what am I missing here?

Brian

[mr48chev]

There is no possible way 57 Car spindles will fit on an I beam axle. At least without completely reworking them. Cars 55 and later had ball joints top and bottom and not king pins.

I just have to ask who told you that would work? Then I hope you didn't blow the money on the spindles already.

The only dropped spindles I have seen on I beams were some that guys were cobbling together in the 80's by Machining the stub off the spindle on the I beam and making a plate that bolted to what was left of the stock spindle and bplting an AMC spindle to the plate. Pretty much a Rube Goldberg setup at best.

[mick53]

I realize these won't work. I bought them to see what I need to get to. The problem I have is nobody makes a spindle for a 53 that will accept the 12.88 Wilwood 6 piston disk brakes. I like the fact that members here don't call me stupid for thinking outside the box like another forum that I won't mention, (SB). I'm trying to understand how all this works so I can understand my engineers questions. If they need to CNC a new spindle and axle from scratch Then so be it. I have a friend that owns an orthopedic machine shop. He would make them out of Titanium if I ask him to. If I don't need the spindle I will donate them to someone on this site. I have never been a "they don't make that" kind of guy. This is a once in my lifetime build on a truck I've owned for 39 years. Thank you everyone for your time and thoughts. This is how I learn.

[Cautrell05]

As for you original question, I would aim for around 0 camber. Positive camber was common back with bias ply tires but is not needed with radials.

Nick

[mick53]

Originally Posted by Cautrell05

As for you original question, I would some for around 0 camber. Positive camber was common back with bias ply tires but is not needed with radials.

Nick

Thank you.

[Cautrell05]

No problem

[mr48chev]

The reason no one makes them is that there is not a viable demand to warrant the expenditure.

If you have the machine shop capabilities both skill and equipment wise available It should come down to designing a caliper bracket that bolts to the stock spindle and holds the caliper where you need it to be. That may be as simple as a plate machined to bolt to the spindle and hold the Wildwood bracket. Then it becomes a "how do I get from here to there without compromising safety.

With credit to SSBC for the photo, this is a pretty much standard disk brake caliper bracket that puts a Chevy caliper on a 53 spindle. You aren't looking at how the caliper attaches to the bracket, what you are looking at is how the bracket attaches to the spindle and if you made a bracket blank that started out larger but bolted to the spindle so you could trim away what you didn't need to attach the bracket you have to it or design your own bracket using the Wildwood bracket as a pattern to machine out your own bracket for the six piston caliper. That has to be a lot simpler than building an axle out of a mega dollar titanium billet.

[mick53]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

The reason no one makes them is that there is not a viable demand to warrant the expenditure.

If you have the machine shop capabilities both skill and equipment wise available It should come down to designing a caliper bracket that bolts to the stock spindle and holds the caliper where you need it to be. That may be as simple as a plate machined to bolt to the spindle and hold the Wildwood bracket. Then it becomes a "how do I get from here to there without compromising safety.

With credit to SSBC for the photo, this is a pretty much standard disk brake caliper bracket that puts a Chevy caliper on a 53 spindle. You aren't looking at how the caliper attaches to the bracket, what you are looking at is how the bracket attaches to the spindle and if you made a bracket blank that started out larger but bolted to the spindle so you could trim away what you didn't need to attach the bracket you have to it or design your own bracket using the Wildwood bracket as a pattern to machine out your own bracket for the six piston caliper. That has to be a lot simpler than building an axle out of a mega dollar titanium billet.

I need the newer spindle for the roller bearings. I don't think my friend would charge me. we do things back and forth. Thank you.

[hogfarm]

Originally Posted by mick53

I realize these won't work. I bought them to see what I need to get to. The problem I have is nobody makes a spindle for a 53 that will accept the 12.88 Wilwood 6 piston disk brakes. I like the fact that members here don't call me stupid for thinking outside the box like another forum that I won't mention, (SB). I'm trying to understand how all this works so I can understand my engineers questions. If they need to CNC a new spindle and axle from scratch Then so be it. I have a friend that owns an orthopedic machine shop. He would make them out of Titanium if I ask him to. If I don't need the spindle I will donate them to someone on this site. I have never been a "they don't make that" kind of guy. This is a once in my lifetime build on a truck I've owned for 39 years. Thank you everyone for your time and thoughts. This is how I learn.

Nothing to do with your post,but I saw the Titanium remark and reminded me of when I worked for the Air Force at McCellan AFB I got a project to manufacture a part out of titanium the stuff machined like butter until you got it to hot,then you were done

[mr48chev]

There are plenty of roller bearing kits out there for the 51 hubs and spindles from the Ebay cheapies to those from the Truck shops and specialty shops.
That shouldn't be an issue outside of how much you want to spend on bearings.

I see that Wildwood has a 4 piston brake kit for the 49/54 cars and 54/62 Corvettes but the bolt pattern on the spindle is different where the bracket would bolt on.
That kit is here https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Br...ck&option=Base

That won't work but I wonder how close the basic bracket design is.

[MARTINSR]

One thing that just hit me, are you talking about "camber" of the wheel or are you talking "King pen inclination." the angle of the king pin? Those are two completely different things!

Brian

[mick53]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

One thing that just hit me, are you talking about "camber" of the wheel or are you talking "King pen inclination." the angle of the king pin? Those are two completely different things!

Brian

I'm confused as usual. I guess king pin inclination. Maybe I should just leave it to the designer/engineer. I like to understand what is going on. I thought king pin angle was camber. Have them make an autocad file and give it to my friend.

[mick53]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

There are plenty of roller bearing kits out there for the 51 hubs and spindles from the Ebay cheapies to those from the Truck shops and specialty shops.
That shouldn't be an issue outside of how much you want to spend on bearings.

I see that Wildwood has a 4 piston brake kit for the 49/54 cars and 54/62 Corvettes but the bolt pattern on the spindle is different where the bracket would bolt on.
That kit is here https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Br...ck&option=Base

That won't work but I wonder how close the basic bracket design is.

I already have my 6 piston 12.88 disk kit from Wilwood for the front (Nickle plated). I have 4 piston on my Frankland rear end. I worked with Wilwood engineer Eric to get the rear end made from Frankland to take their brakes. I knew I had this hurdle to get over. Thank you.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by mick53

I'm confused as usual. I guess king pin inclination. Maybe I should just leave it to the designer/engineer. I like to understand what is going on. I thought king pin angle was camber. Have them make an autocad file and give it to my friend.

Nope, the king pin inclination has translated on a modern IFS as "SAI" or "Steering axis inclination."

That measurement is NOT the same as Camber. It doesn't change with alignment right? On a modern car it's the angle created by the knuckle in relation to the earth. The camber is adjusted at where the control arm mounts to the frame, so camber changes and included angle stays the same.

This gets crazy but I will go there. LOL

The KPI or SAI is measured against the earth, (in this drawing the "Vertical Reference") the camber is measured against the earth, the "Included angle" is the difference between the KPI or SAI and the Camber.

Brian

[mick53]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

The reason no one makes them is that there is not a viable demand to warrant the expenditure.

If you have the machine shop capabilities both skill and equipment wise available It should come down to designing a caliper bracket that bolts to the stock spindle and holds the caliper where you need it to be. That may be as simple as a plate machined to bolt to the spindle and hold the Wildwood bracket. Then it becomes a "how do I get from here to there without compromising safety.

With credit to SSBC for the photo, this is a pretty much standard disk brake caliper bracket that puts a Chevy caliper on a 53 spindle. You aren't looking at how the caliper attaches to the bracket, what you are looking at is how the bracket attaches to the spindle and if you made a bracket blank that started out larger but bolted to the spindle so you could trim away what you didn't need to attach the bracket you have to it or design your own bracket using the Wildwood bracket as a pattern to machine out your own bracket for the six piston caliper. That has to be a lot simpler than building an axle out of a mega dollar titanium billet.

Sorry I haven't responded sooner. You got me thinking. As usual I think I may have been overthinking this. I was hung up on the spindles. Wilwood makes the spindle for my 53 axle, get a 4" drop axle. I have an end mill in my shop. I could make this, how cool. So if I made a plate. that mounted on the stock spindle holes I believe it's milled flat there? Then figure the offsets and make it match the caliper . Might be able to use the supplied one. I have been thinking about this for a year. I posted this on four different forums and you are the only one to suggest this. Looks like I will have a pair of Bel Air spindles to donate. Thank you.

[Matt_50]

All the companies that made disk brake kits to work with our trucks started with the stock spindles. They made adapters to fit over the spindle so that they could make bearings and rotors from other years fit.

Maybe you could do the same? What rotor or rotors can you use? Maybe an adapter could be made for bearings and once the rotor is on, figuring out how to mount the caliper should be simple enough.

[mick53]

Originally Posted by Matt_50

All the companies that made disk brake kits to work with our trucks started with the stock spindles. They made adapters to fit over the spindle so that they could make bearings and rotors from other years fit.

Maybe you could do the same? What rotor or rotors can you use? Maybe an adapter could be made for bearings and once the rotor is on, figuring out how to mount the caliper should be simple enough.

Wilwood makes a spindle for their bearings on the big brake kit for my 53 it just won't mount the big brake kit. They make a spindle for a 57 Bel Air that will mount the brakes. I got completely hung up on making the Bel Air spindle mount on the 53 axle that it never crossed my mind to just make the brake fit the spindle. If you knew how much time I have spent on this you would understand how silly I feel, but happy. Thank you.

[bootman49]

Originally Posted by mick53

Wilwood makes a spindle for their bearings on the big brake kit for my 53 it just won't mount the big brake kit. They make a spindle for a 57 Bel Air that will mount the brakes. I got completely hung up on making the Bel Air spindle mount on the 53 axle that it never crossed my mind to just make the brake fit the spindle. If you knew how much time I have spent on this you would understand how silly I feel, but happy. Thank you.

Now your on the right track, build it yourself. Have done it plenty. Here is a 29 Ford to disk using Ford F150 rotor. Turned rotor O.D. down and made a bearing adapter. Caliper bracket is hand made. Last pic is racing spindle with Impala hub/rotor with Willwood caliper on hand made mount. See matching mount on vice handle. Speedway Supply might have what you need.

[mick53]

Originally Posted by bootman49

Now your on the right track, build it yourself. Have done it plenty. Here is a 29 Ford to disk using Ford F150 rotor. Turned rotor O.D. down and made a bearing adapter. Caliper bracket is hand made. Last pic is racing spindle with Impala hub/rotor with Willwood caliper on hand made mount. See matching mount on vice handle. Speedway Supply might have what you need.

Very nice thank you. sometimes I have to get out of my own way.