110V or 220V how to tell

[FAKKY]

Here's a Pic of a hotub run at a new house we bought.

The spa itself is 110V but I always thought 50A breakers were 220V.

50A Breaker
20A left marked Garage
20A right marked Spa

Anyway - how do I tell ....... whats what

[Coley]

Is the jacuzzi....a jacuzzi tub?...vs. a 'Hot Tub' (much bigger)...which would make sense on a 110V system.
Most hot tubs run a 220V because they need that power to not only run the big pumps but also to produce the heat.
Looks like someone wired that in themselves maybe...which is perhaps why there is a 50 amp breaker in there...it looks to be a GFCI, so why is the jacuzzi listed on a small non-GFI breaker?

Is that black wire on the right the only 'feed' into the box? (12/2?...it almost looks like it doesn't have a ground, lol)
How far does the black wire run until it joins into its main feed?...and where does it originate from? (the main panel? or a junction box? or is it tapped off an outer house plug inside or outside?)
If it does connect into a larger (main?) panel of junction box is there a breaker on it to isolate this system and shut if off?

(note: the best way to tell what is going on inside there in terms of wiring is to remove that front plate...but unless you know what you are doing and confident around electricity its best to disable the panel first from the feeder panel that supplies it...noting that I don't think there is such a thing as a 50 amp breaker for a 110 volt system- nope)

Lets start with a bit more information so we can figure this out.

Coley

[Coley]

Something of note here:
It isn't uncommon for people to wire these things up themselves through variety of methods but most of all...through a variety of wire types and styles.
The wire needed to run a 220 volt hot tub (which is what 95% are) that is 40-50ft from the main panel is a pretty serious wire...usually a 6/3....and if you get off lucky it is an 8/3.
Now, whats the big deal?....price 60-75ft of either of these out at Home Depot or your local supplier. ....you will be surprised at how expensive they are...hence the improvisation by some home owners to try to work around this.
That said...the right wire....a big 6/3 is the way to go. (thats what I used....painfully paid for....but still used, lol)
You want to be safe....from fire and from electrocution....not the place to monkey around for sure.

All good
Coley

[Indian113]

I had a 110 volt Hot Tub, But it was only a 4 person tub. Electricity and Water = Death! I would hire someone that Knows what they are doing to fix it.

[jeffahart]

Two pole. Take off the dead front cover and look at it. My biggest concern would be if it is 50A and not over fused; and if the grounded neutral and grounding buses are setup correctly. I would get a different panel and add more breakers for more stuff too.


J

[100%Chevy]

I'm a retired licensed,bonded and master electrician.
The very best advice I can give is to call out the same type electrician to look at and verify that it is wired correctly!
When your life is involved,don't take chances or free advice(even well meaning)do it right!
For what it's worth---more people are electrocuted at home than anywhere else!
Mike.

[pritch]

Originally Posted by 100%Chevy

I'm a retired licensed,bonded and master electrician.
The very best advice I can give is to call out the same type electrician to look at and verify that it is wired correctly!
When your life is involved,don't take chances or free advice(even well meaning)do it right!
For what it's worth---more people are electrocuted at home than anywhere else!
Mike.

What he said.

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by pritch

What he said.

X2. You need to make certain that what is behind that panel is properly done. I have a friend who spent 9 months in a burn ward after building a natural gas heated sauna, with just one flaw.

[rpmerf]

110 will have 1 hot
220 will have 2 hots
Look for a model number on the tub and google for a manual.

[FAKKY]

Sorry guys been tied up.

1) Im not touching the electric [fixing anything] - just trying to work out whats what.
2) I know nothing.

It appears the main black thick wire is coming from teh main junction box inside the house. Its NOT marked ...... but Im *guessing* its the 50A at positions 28+30







I generally wont touch anything over 12V except for putting in light/fan fixtures etc.
But I would liek to understand more so when I converse with contractors I dont feel like an idiot. So a bit of

A) My current configuration
B) General how to .... links ... whatever.

Another Example is I have that 50A subpanel under the spa. An I have a 100A panel in the garage. No idea if the 100A is linked to the main panel or a seperate run .....but I dont see anything listed in the main house panel.

So on.

[Boog]

Difference between 110 and 220?
110 will buzz you and you can get loose. 220 can get you and you might not get loose from it. So i’m told. I’ve been buzzed a couple times.
Be careful.

[jeffahart]

It was probably installed and wired correctly, assume that. Why not just leave it alone? If you are concerned get a contractor to inspect it. If you are adding appliances and need more current or circuits... get a contractor. I install my own panels, but that's me, I pull permits. You can goto building and safety and see any permits. But if you are concerned, I'm sure a simple inspection will put your mind at ease

Like said above, most snake bites are on the hands of people trying to pick up a snake. Same applies to electricity.

Enjoy your home and be safe!


j

[Ol Blue K20]

You need to have an electrician trace out how things are run. Without tracing it out we're just guessing. Be safe.

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by jeffahart

It was probably installed and wired correctly, assume that. Why not just leave it alone?

j

AS mentioned ----- not trying to change or alter anything.
It started with a simple question from SPA company asking me if I had 110V or 220V existing RUN.

I said - no idea. Felt a bit dumb. Just wanted to learn a bit more.

Assume its something like .....

1) Disconnect the main breaker at the main panel box
2) Remove exterior panel to see fuse/circuit behind panelling at SPA 50A sub box.
3) use a basic electric detector to ensure no electricity (not hot)
4) Look for TWO BLACK wires plumbed in ...... together with a single white and single copper ?

Something to that affect ?


Just re-iterating ....... not doing anything if its HOT .... and even if not hot ..... still only validating .... not going to be responsible for wiring anything over 12V auto .

Just want to be more "versed", better understanding of whats going on in my home etc.

[jeffahart]

They should be on site to do the estimate. Then they can tell you what you have and what you need as far a electrical or gas upgrades. They will/should include it in their estimate. They should tell you if you need permits and pull any necessary permits.

Don't feel dumb. You can't possibly know everything. Ask the contractors when they are on site. You will learn more and more about your home overtime.


j

[100%Chevy]

Actually,you're one of the smarter ones!
You've asked first!
I only posted because,I don't want to see anyone hurt when they seem a little unsure of themselves.
If you want to know for sure what's what and what is required,you can call your local code enforcement office(inspections dept.)
They will usually come out and check your new home for you for a small inspection fee.Less than an electrician would charge.
Be aware,they will also probably make you repair any problems they find.
A great reference book for anyone is "Ugly's Electrical References".
should be able to find it on-line,although I haven't tried myself,because I have it.
Mike.

[truckster]

IF the box is correctly labeled, it's 110v. The breaker labeled "Jacuzzi" is a single pole breaker, and it would only be carrying 110v.

[cypressbog]

Aren't the plugs different? 110 is your normal looking household plug. The 220 plug is larger and has various different terminals.

[100%Chevy]

Originally Posted by cypressbog

Aren't the plugs different? 110 is your normal looking household plug. The 220 plug is larger and has various different terminals.

There are over 200 NEMA specific receptacles and plug ends on the charts!
Each has it's own voltage and amperage rating.Unless it's where you can read the numbers on it,it's really hard to guess what it is.
Just from the pic,I believe it"s a 120 volt,single phase box.the GFCI breaker appears to be a double, but more than likely it's just using 2 tabs off the same 120 volt bus to get more amperage than a single tab can provide.But,I'm just guessing!
Mike.

[FAKKY]

Thanks guys.

[pritch]

You know, that 50 you're pointing at in the picture-it's not installed correctly and, help me with this sparkies, I'm not even sure it's correct for that panel, and that could be why it's not snapped in. All the others are clearly marked Square D, that one is not.

[Coley]

Some good advice and insight here.....some opinions lighter, some heavier...but all good.
It looks like its worth taking a little closer look at.
Maybe see if you can find a buddy (or an electrician) to take a quick peak at this and see if its going to work for you and be safe.

All Good
Coley

['63GENIII]

Fakky, one important thing to remember is it only takes 5 milliamps to interrupt the signal that makes the heart work. Period. Regardless of the voltage.

Ive been bit by 480v that scared the bejezuz outta me yet stayed at work, and then been "hung up" by the 48 - 90 volts DC that runs on our phone lines and been sent to the hospital. Its all about the 1000s of variables that come together when you get lit up that determine whether you get a second chance to respect it.

The cable that is run into your Jacuzzi sub panel is an 8-3 or 6-3 Romex. Might even be a 4-3. In any case it is a 3 wire. If connected by an electrician, should be 120/240 volt present. There should be 2 hot phases, a neutral and a ground in that wire. And yes, its still called a 3 wire even though there are 4 conductors in it.

I would get an inductance or "tick tracer" (a good Fluke is reasonable $$ and as accurate as you can get) and check to see which breaker feeds that sub panel. Yes, could be a few trips back and forth between the main panel and that sub panel feeder (the 3 wire cable)and you should be able to tell when the sub panel is dead. A good tick tracer will read through the jacket on that cable. Spend the money (20$) and get the fluke.

Once you can determine which breaker de energizes that sub panel, you can shut it off, CAREFULLY open the sub panel and check with a real voltage tester - Wiggy or Knopp to be absolutely sure there is no voltage present. This cannot be stressed enough. No voltage present at any of the wire terminations to ground or to neutral. If you cannot check this correctly or feel uncomfortable doing it, call an electrician.

For that main panel, same rules apply. Open the main (the 4 pole breaker on the top). I would strongly consider getting a qualified AND trusted electrician to do this. There's not a lot of room for learning here and the learning curve is like a wall when it comes to not making mistakes.

One thing I will say is that it looks as though you have Square D Homeline breakers in an ITE / Siemens or Cutler Hammer Panel. Different manufacturers. Likely why that 2 pole 50 doesn't fit and would certainly void any kind of liability from either manufacturer and quite possibly your insurance should something happen. Each manufacturer has its own breakers that their panels are UL tested with. Most of the time they just don't interchange or fit well. Sometimes they won't do their job right when mixed. That is where the problems start. If you do have a City Inspector look at your panel and he doesn't call it out, he doesn't know his head from a hole in the ground and should be sent packing...with all due respect of course.

An easy way to safely identify what is controlled by which breaker is to set aside a little bit of time, turn off one breaker at a time and see what turns off / on. It is way cheaper for you to do this than it is for you to pay someone to do it for you. This will give you a little better knowledge / insight into what you have which will also make it easier to communicate to the electrician what your desired end result should be.

One other good tester is made by Gardner Bender and is a "plug in" tester. They are great for testing u ground (the type in your house) receptacles. Most will let you know if the plug polarity is right, ground and neutral isn't reversed and most these days will test the operation of a GFCI plug.

Feel free to PM me with any ???s you may have. Been an electrician for 30 years this year. Wired everything from turbine generators to swimming pools to playhouses and have seen and repaired some of the strangest homeowner installs in that time.

Be safe.

[FAKKY]

['63GENIII]

Looks to be nothing connected to the GFI breaker? I would make sure there is a GFI in between the single pole 20 that is marked jacuzzi and the jacuzzi itself. There needs to be one to be protected.