Timing marks

[Jake1074]

Not exactly sure what I am looking at, but I got a photo while using the timing light. The balancer has a MSD tape on it and the timing tab has this red indicator arrow. (not my additions)

So as I look at the timing appears now to be set at 25-28 degrees after with vacuum line plugged. Prior the vacuum advance was hitting the intake and I could get little or no advance. I moved it a tooth and was able to get advance. At 12 degrees it's very hard to start and backfires, easy where it is now. However hard to start when hot.

SBC 350, mild cam, Edelbrock 1406 electric that is working.

Thoughts?

[HO455]

Try to location the factory mark on the balancer and check it against those marks. It is possible you have the wrong tape installed. Timing tapes are designed to fit a specific diameter of balancer. If you have a tape made to go on a 6" balancer and it is installed on a 7" balancer it will read high at the correct timing. Its a geometry thing. The larger the diameter the greater the distance between one degree increments.

[jocko]

Is that picture upside down? I hope so
- Does the zero mark on the tape line up with the indented timing mark on the balancer?
- Is the timing pointer in approx the same location as the original (approx 10 o'clock on the balancer as you look from the front - like I said, can't really tell from the pic)?

Since it was hard to start/run before but is ok now, hmm.. do you have an advance timing light and have advance dialed in?

Bottom line, I'd remove the cap and rotate the engine until the rotor tip is pointing at the #1 distributor wire tower (trace it back from the #1 plug wire). That should correspond to approx 10 deg BTDC (give or take 5or6 deg) with the engine not running. See how that compares with what the aftermarket pointer/timing tape indicates.

Also, when you say you "moved it a tooth" - do you mean you pulled the distributor and rotated it and re-inserted - or something else?
Have to ask - can you confirm you are clamped onto the #1 plug wire when checking timing?

[Jake1074]

Originally Posted by jocko

Is that picture upside down? I hope so
- Does the zero mark on the tape line up with the indented timing mark on the balancer?
- Is the timing pointer in approx the same location as the original (approx 10 o'clock on the balancer as you look from the front - like I said, can't really tell from the pic)?

Since it was hard to start/run before but is ok now, hmm.. do you have an advance timing light and have advance dialed in?

Bottom line, I'd remove the cap and rotate the engine until the rotor tip is pointing at the #1 distributor wire tower (trace it back from the #1 plug wire). That should correspond to approx 10 deg BTDC (give or take 5or6 deg) with the engine not running. See how that compares with what the aftermarket pointer/timing tape indicates.

So no it’s not upside down. The pic was taken with the timing light next to the power steering pump and the camera at the same view. I have moved the distrubutor at least a tooth to get a the vacuum advance from being stopped by the intake.

[garyd1961]

You need to start over. Get the #1 piston TDC on the compression stroke and make sure your balancer marks are zeroed. Next remove and install your distributor so the rotor is facing the #1 terminal on the cap. The best way is to install the distributor with the rotor pointing at the #1 spark plug and put your #1 terminal in line. If you draw a line from your rotor to the #1 plug your rotor, #1 terminal, and spark plug all should be in that line.

[Jake1074]

Originally Posted by garyd1961

You need to start over. Get the #1 piston TDC on the compression stroke and make sure your balancer marks are zeroed. Next remove and install your distributor so the rotor is facing the #1 terminal on the cap. The best way is to install the distributor with the rotor pointing at the #1 spark plug and put your #1 terminal in line. If you draw a line from your rotor to the #1 plug your rotor, #1 terminal, and spark plug all should be in that line.

Yes I did that. Moved the distrutor a tooth so it’s spot on. Just don’t know about the balancer markings vs the actual timing. Where it’s at there is minimal power and hard to start hot I know the engine has much more balls than it’s producing. 3.73 rear should smole the tires but it’s dead out of the hole. 🐷

[geezer#99]

Your timing tape is on wrong.
Timing tape is installed with zero at your balancer line and rest of the tape (up to 30 or more degrees)goes clockwise.
Yours shows 30 and then I assume descending to zero in a clockwise direction. That’s backwards.
Correct that and it’ll be easier to set timing.

[Grumpy old man]

It's probably the picture but how is the timing mark on the left ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4WRL513Gx4

[Jake1074]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

It's probably the picture but how is the timing mark on the left ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4WRL513Gx4

I’ll get a pic not running to compare

[jocko]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Your timing tape is on wrong.
Timing tape is installed with zero at your balancer line and rest of the tape (up to 30 or more degrees)goes clockwise.
Yours shows 30 and then I assume descending to zero in a clockwise direction. That’s backwards.
Correct that and it’ll be easier to set timing.

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

It's probably the picture but how is the timing mark on the left ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4WRL513Gx4

The pic is upside down.

Jake - regardless of how/where you took the picture from (i.e. by the steering pump), it's upside down as posted in here.

What Gary is saying is to start from scratch and disregard the current timing tape and pointed for the time being. Was the truck running properly when you bought it? Just moving the distributor one tooth, by pulling it up and out and then reinserting, doesn't normally solve a timing problem unless that is what was done wrong in the first place (which could be the case, but we don't know how long you've had this and what's been done to it).

Have you had this truck long? Has it been hard to start/run as long as you've owned it?
How did you find TDC?
Once you found TDC, where was the rotor pointing (i.e. approx to which cylinder's plug wire tower)?
Have you confirmed that the plug wire installation matches the firing order?
At this point, I think the timing tape is just throwing the discussion off the rabbit trail - I'd ignore it and indeed start over from scratch as Gary mentions - his instructions are spot on

[Jake1074]

Originally Posted by jocko

The pic is upside down.

Jake - regardless of how/where you took the picture from (i.e. by the steering pump), it's upside down as posted in here.

What Gary is saying is to start from scratch and disregard the current timing tape and pointed for the time being. Was the truck running properly when you bought it? Just moving the distributor one tooth, by pulling it up and out and then reinserting, doesn't normally solve a timing problem unless that is what was done wrong in the first place (which could be the case, but we don't know how long you've had this and what's been done to it).

Have you had this truck long? Has it been hard to start/run as long as you've owned it?
How did you find TDC?
Once you found TDC, where was the rotor pointing (i.e. approx to which cylinder's plug wire tower)?
Have you confirmed that the plug wire installation matches the firing order?
At this point, I think the timing tape is just throwing the discussion off the rabbit trail - I'd ignore it and indeed start over from scratch as Gary mentions - his instructions are spot on

I just got the truck and it ran horrible from day one. Looking for advice to work out the gremlins.

[jocko]

Ok, that's actually good news. I bet the previous owner just gave up. In that case, I would absolutely do what Gary describes. Several methods to find TDC, recommend google on the site to search - it's important that it's TDC on the compression stroke, not 180 out from that (which also shows as 0 deg TDC on a stock timing pointer). Then I'd do what Gary mentions. Here are some more details, if it helps:

1. Find TDC on compression stroke - and leave it there, no more engine rotating after you get it there.
2. Since previous owners can do ALL kindsa wacky things when they choose which distrib cap tower to put the #1 cyl plug wire on, I'd remove ALL the plug wires from the distributor cap (but not from the spark plugs). Remove the distrib cap.
3. Remove and then re-install the distributor (cap off) with the vac advance can nipple pointing approx at your passenger side headlight (ignore the rotor for now)
4. Put your distributor cap back on and, with a sharpie or something, mark on the distributor body just below the bottom edge of the cap - in the location beneath the center of the plug wire tower that is closest to the #1 cylinder (i.e. kinda physically closest to your driver's side headlight).
5. remove the cap.
6. pull the distributor back out (straight up, without rotating it) about an inch, just enough to be able to rotate the rotor freely (to disengage the gear) and rotate the rotor tip to where it almost lines up with the mark you made in step 4.
7. stick the distributor back in. Note that as it engages the cam gear, the rotor tip will rotate, that's normal. So, you may have to do this a few times. Note how much it rotates, and when you pull it back out to re-rotate the rotor tip, offset it by about that much so that when you re-engage it, the rotor tip will line up with the mark you made on your distributor body. Again, may take a few tries, but will make more sense when you're doing it (if it doesn't right now). Remember to keep the distributor body oriented as described, remove/install it by moving it up/down only (without rotating) and let the rotor move when it engages the cam gear - goal is to keep the vac can pointing to your passenger side headlight and the mark you made on the distrib body pointing toward the #1 cyl/driver's side headlight.
8. Reinstall distrib cap.
9. Install #1 plug wire on the terminal that you marked below. Then, per standard firing order, reinstall the remaining plug wires on around the cap. (Note: if you aren't sure which direction to go from #1, remove the cap, turn the engine over a little with a wrench on the balancer bolt (clockwise as viewed from the front) and observe the rotor tip movement. Then just reinstall the cap. Doing this doesn't mess up any timing - and continue installing the 7 other wires in the direction of the rotor movement)

Drive and enjoy. Hopefully ! Well, almost... You'll still have to set your initial timing, but it should only take a few degrees of rotation to fine tune it. Unfortunately, your timing tape/pointer may require that you guess a little bit. But look where it is (running with a timing light) when you re-start it - and you shouldn't need to adjust it much from there. If everything was perfect (which it does NOT have to be), i.e. exactly TDC, exactly centered rotor tip, etc etc - then you should need to advance the timing about 8-12 deg to have the proper initial timing set.

EDIT: Btw, I may have missed it, but do you have a points distributor or HEI? (process is same regardless, but if you have a points distributor, probably worth changing the points & condesner once you get this running again. I'd do it after it's running fairly smoothly, in order to avoid throwing yet one more variable into the mix here, i.e. incorrect point gap). If HEI, then disregard the points discussion.

[garyd1961]

If your distributor doesn't sit all the way down you will need to take a long screw driver and reach down in the hole that the distributor shaft goes in and align the shaft in the oilpump to match the shaft on the distributor.

[Sheepdip]

One quick timing trick is a vacuum gauge. Unplug your vacuum advance and plug in the vacuum gauge, run your rpm's up to about 2500 and adjust your distributor until you reach peak vacuum then lock it down....you are now timed to optimum performance of any tired, worn or less than stellar cam/valve train components.