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Old 03-10-2017, 02:17 PM   #1
Kartch1
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Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

Hello everyone! I have been lurking on the board for a long time and it's been a wealth of information. I have finally started to dig into by '56 project. I got a little ahead of myself on the teardown and removed front and back suspension. The problem is now I am getting ready to put on the Camaro front clip but I don't know where to place it because I can't measure wheelbase because rear axle is gone.

Does anybody have a measurement from front of body mount bracket to center of upper shock hole or something like that I can go off of? If there's another measurement you suggest instead that's great. I also want the center the wheel in the opening as well.

Thanks so much in advance if anybody can help me. I will post some pics of my build if anybody is interested.
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Old 03-10-2017, 02:33 PM   #2
MARTINSR
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

Ok, I am a little anal on something like this. I have only done one camaro clip but many similar projects and there is no friggin way I would do it without the cab and fenders on to set it up. A quarter inch one way or the other can be seen in the tire to fender fit, there is no way I would do it without having those fenders in place.

What I did was put all thread where the shock is and tighten up the nuts compressing the suspension until it is at ride height that it will have with the weight on it. This way you know exactly where you are welding it to put the truck at the height you want to, it gives you complete control and no surprise at the end.

Brian
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Old 03-10-2017, 02:34 PM   #3
ChuckDriver
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

This should help.

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Old 03-10-2017, 03:12 PM   #4
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

diagram above measurements reference the front of cab as a baseline, so the firewall. maybe gotta stick the cab back on with decent mounts or do the math so you can figure the centreline from the cab mount. be aware that the ride height of the truck will affect the axle centreline because the wheel opening is tapered at the rear and rounded at the front. if you install the clip with the stock centreline of axle, and you lower the truck in the process, then the wheel will look like it is too far back. wheel diameter also affects that look. take a look at some of the other camaro clip conversions on here and ask questions about the ones you like. usually an inch ahead of the stock mark is what i have heard guys are doing.
before you cut the frame do a check to make sure it is square and straight. measure corner to corner, you are allowed 1/8" out of whack. then run a stringline or laser down the centreline of the frame front to rear and measure to ensure the frame doesn't have a wow in it. these old trucks have been around for awhile so who knows what thwy have ben through.
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:37 PM   #5
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

My plan is to put the cab back on and one or both fenders. I read that the upper shock mount is the best place to measure from when determining where centerline of the tire is? I assume like you all stated it will depend on ride height and tire size. I just don't want to screw this up.
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:39 PM   #6
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
What I did was put all thread where the shock is and tighten up the nuts compressing the suspension until it is at ride height that it will have with the weight on it. This way you know exactly where you are welding it to put the truck at the height you want to, it gives you complete control and no surprise at the end.

Brian
Good idea! I thing I will go this route. I was worried about changes due to ride height and tire size.
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:40 PM   #7
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven View Post
diagram above measurements reference the front of cab as a baseline, so the firewall. maybe gotta stick the cab back on with decent mounts or do the math so you can figure the centreline from the cab mount. be aware that the ride height of the truck will affect the axle centreline because the wheel opening is tapered at the rear and rounded at the front. if you install the clip with the stock centreline of axle, and you lower the truck in the process, then the wheel will look like it is too far back. wheel diameter also affects that look. take a look at some of the other camaro clip conversions on here and ask questions about the ones you like. usually an inch ahead of the stock mark is what i have heard guys are doing.
before you cut the frame do a check to make sure it is square and straight. measure corner to corner, you are allowed 1/8" out of whack. then run a stringline or laser down the centreline of the frame front to rear and measure to ensure the frame doesn't have a wow in it. these old trucks have been around for awhile so who knows what thwy have ben through.
Thanks guys. I have that diagram but I have worried about where exactly "front of the cab" is actually measured from.
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:51 PM   #8
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

if the clip and engine are still in the car (in other words the car suspension is loaded as it would normally be), install the threaded rod before you take anything apart. that way the suspension will stay where ride height is supposed to be for that front end. otherwise I believe the lower control arms should be parallel to the ground, side to side, at ride height. the threaded rod would need to be tightened down enough to get that effect before you install the clip into the truck. you would want to do this so you know where the ride height of the truck will be. otherwise it is a crap shoot on what you end up with when it is all together and you may end up buying new spindles to get the look you want. I also believe that the lower control arms should be parallel to the ground fore to aft at ride height so you would want to set the truck up at the rake angle you want when it is complete. if not the front end alignment guys will not be happy (and neither will you if it has to be herded down the road)
anybody else have input on this subject before the cutting and welding starts?
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Old 03-10-2017, 05:12 PM   #9
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

I recommend checking the frame for square and straight first and doing any work that needs to be done there before going forward. then setting the truck at ride height and rake angle and also level side to side.(you may have to remove the front tires for this and just set them in the opening if you will be going lower than stock. also make sure the tires are aired up the same on all 4 corners).if you are lowering the truck you would want to have the rear end as low as you want for ride height at this point. then fab up some solid shock replacement struts for the rear end so the suspension can't move and the frame has no choice but to be where you set it. you will be able to see how the rear tires look in their openings and if you are not satisfied now would be the time to change the ride height back there. putting the truck on stands would be the best scenario so the frame can't move even when the front end is cut off. the tires could be just touching the floor so it will be easier to see if you like the ride height and rake angle when you mock up the clip before welding. put a stand under the frame in the cab area so it is out of the way but still holding the frame/truck solid and as far forward as will allow work to be completed. remember that when the weight of the front end comes off, the truck will try to teeter totter backwards and load the rear and you want to compensate for that now by setting the frame on a solid base that won't move when the weight is removed or added or you need to shift something around a bit for fitment of the clip. you should also have the truck sitting on a set of tires of the size you want to use in the end. that way you know how far forward, if at all, you will want the axle centerline to be for the look you want when done. that would include a set for the new bolt pattern in the front, unless you have already changed the rear out to match. when I was setting up my frame for a MII front end I used a set of modified axle stands that allowed the use of threaded rod to connect the stands to the frame. that way the whole thing could easily be adjusted for level and rake angle. I also suggest the use of a digital level over a bubble level. just to check that I used a bubble level and got the frame level side to side. then I used a digital level on top of the bubble level and it was actually out of whack a couple of degrees. no big deal I guess but I thought I might as well get it right because it is the base that the whole truck will be sitting on top of. digital levels are getting cheaper now anyway.
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Old 03-10-2017, 05:29 PM   #10
Kartch1
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

Well, what I have now is a stripped frame without any suspension. That's kind of the problem. I am going to do a four link rear end so I removed everything. I had some measurements but have no idea where they ended up. I was hoping to get some measurements from the front of the body mount bracket to some reference points on a completed camaro clip installation to make sure I'm close.
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:05 PM   #11
MARTINSR
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

I had a neighbor with the same Camaro as I got the sub frame from and I just measured the distance from the rubber bumper to the frame and put mine the same being they are close to the same weight.

As I remember it was very little, something crazy like an inch or an inch and a half or so. I think they were real close in to the frame under the spring so the movement isn't much there compared to out at the wheel.

Another thing that is very important is to put a protractor on the stock control arm shaft in the Camaro and make yours the same when you weld the clip on. If the rear end is at the proper height as well when you do this you now have a Camaro, not a truck with a different suspension for the alignment shop to freak about. You align it to the Camaro specs, done deal. But having that upper shaft at the right angle is very important, and it only takes a minute to do it right.


Brian
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Chopped, Sectioned, 1953 Corvette 235 powered. Once was even 401 Buick mid engined with the carburetor right between the seats!
Bought with paper route money in 1973 when I was 15.

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Old 03-10-2017, 11:04 PM   #12
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

I know this number, I just have to find it or measure it from my truck.

Can I talk you out of cutting the frame for a camaro clip? I understand why they were done 20 years ago, but now days we have other good options. Leaving the frame alone will make mounting the front sheet metal much easier. The camaro clip is slightly on the wide side. Stock geometry leaves more to be desired. If you add new control arms and big brake kits, brings you into the budget of other cross member kits. I thought I would just do a cheap camaro install.... In the end, I spent more than I would have on a C4 swap. I will never do another camaro swap. Look into C4 corvette, Heidts, or Porterbuilt.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:10 PM   #13
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

Here you go, post 43, Not mine, but I think I started with this number.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=411524&page=2

I may have used the above drawing, measured off the front of the firewall and added 3/4".
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Old 03-11-2017, 08:30 PM   #14
ChuckDriver
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

I second the thought of not cutting the stock frame. Too many options out there these days that are reasonably priced with better geometry and brakes!

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Old 03-12-2017, 01:48 AM   #15
MARTINSR
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

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Originally Posted by ChuckDriver View Post
I second the thought of not cutting the stock frame. Too many options out there these days that are reasonably priced with better geometry and brakes!

Bing Bing Bing, and we have a WINNA!


Brian
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:43 AM   #16
1958Warrior
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

The Camaro/ Nova clip is a good economical swap, OEM parts can be sourced easily and work fine. Subframes can be found $200 range and rebuilt for another $200 (labor not included)

Couple of different methods to install : No limit Way blends the subframe to the original frame, and the Stack/ Lux Blue way sets the original frame on the subframe.

Do your homework and take your time, do a search lots of info on the installs. Take pics for your records and write your measurements down in a note book for your reference, bag and tag all nuts and bolts and parts

No limit sells a video also, here is a link
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=440771

Lux link:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t...ne-day.148978/

Last edited by 1958Warrior; 03-12-2017 at 02:53 AM.
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Old 03-12-2017, 03:53 AM   #17
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

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Here are my measurements

I moved mine out 1" ,wheel base is 115"

Last edited by 1958Warrior; 03-12-2017 at 04:12 AM.
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:25 AM   #18
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

I just went thru this. Ride height , tire diameter and personal preferance come into play . I think that the only way to be sure you get it exactly the way YOU want it is to mock it up . Set the ride height with the tire size you want to run and hang the fenders . Stand back and look at it awhile. If you have to reassemble to mock it it will be worth it in my opinion . Here are a couple of pics of mine. The first pic shows the clip moved 1" forward of the original location . The second pic is moved forward an additional 3/4''. It's really all about how you want it to look. That's why I wouldn't use somebody elses measurements.
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:36 AM   #19
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

When you do measurements try to be precise. Measuring by eye to the ecntre of a shock bolt, for instance, may not be as pre ise as you think. Remember the shock mount hole in the frame is quite a bit larger diameter than the shock bolt and there is a rubber bushing to insulate and take up the slack. That means the bolt that you may be referencing may not be in the centre of the hole.
Just a thought, but while the clip is apart for rebuild, a straight edge could be placed between the shock mount holes and a mark made,the same on each side, for reference upon assembly to the truck frame. Inaccurate reference marks may place the new clip off parallel to the old truck frame.
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:41 PM   #20
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rapid49 View Post
I just went thru this. Ride height , tire diameter and personal preferance come into play . I think that the only way to be sure you get it exactly the way YOU want it is to mock it up . Set the ride height with the tire size you want to run and hang the fenders . Stand back and look at it awhile. If you have to reassemble to mock it it will be worth it in my opinion . Here are a couple of pics of mine. The first pic shows the clip moved 1" forward of the original location . The second pic is moved forward an additional 3/4''. It's really all about how you want it to look. That's why I wouldn't use somebody elses measurements.
YEP!

I tacked mine into place with all the measuring and THEN I installed the front fenders and took a look. I had to cut it loose and move it forward a half inch or so. There is NOTHING that looks worse than the tire not in the proper position in the fender arch.

Brian
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Bought with paper route money in 1973 when I was 15.

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Old 03-12-2017, 02:37 PM   #21
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

When I measured mine out I used a good set of trammels, and measured to the leading edge of the shock mount hole. You can make up a set or 3 with different measurements to have consistent measurements on both sides.
1" + forward is needed when lowering to be centered for your liking.

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Old 03-12-2017, 02:43 PM   #22
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

Another good idea is to make a jig for your front bumper/ sheet metal mount.
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Old 03-14-2017, 01:00 PM   #23
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

You all are awesome!! Thanks so much for the recommendations and advice. It it greatly appreciated. I had cut the frame about a year ago in anticipation of doing the camaro clip. If I was starting fresh I would probably go with a M2 kit. At this point I have everything do the the camaro clip so am moving forward with that. It will also free up some funds to put into engine and tranny. I'm planning on going with a 5.3 with carb.

I've ordered a body mount kit so I can get the cab put back on in the right location so I can mock everything up with a fender in place. I'm not sure how I'm going to address the ride height estimation since I don't have anything to go off of. May just have to try and get close by visual estimation.

Thanks again for the replies. I'm sure I will have more questions as I go forward. I should probably make a build thread so I can keep bugging you all for advice.
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Old 03-14-2017, 01:03 PM   #24
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rapid49 View Post
I just went thru this. Ride height , tire diameter and personal preferance come into play . I think that the only way to be sure you get it exactly the way YOU want it is to mock it up . Set the ride height with the tire size you want to run and hang the fenders . Stand back and look at it awhile. If you have to reassemble to mock it it will be worth it in my opinion . Here are a couple of pics of mine. The first pic shows the clip moved 1" forward of the original location . The second pic is moved forward an additional 3/4''. It's really all about how you want it to look. That's why I wouldn't use somebody elses measurements.
That's crazy how much of a difference 3/4" makes! Wow! What size tires/rims are you running? If you get a chance can you get me a measurement of ride height you are at?
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Old 03-14-2017, 01:04 PM   #25
Kartch1
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Re: Camaro Clip Measurement. Help!

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Originally Posted by 1958Warrior View Post
Another good idea is to make a jig for your front bumper/ sheet metal mount.
Attachment 1631523
I'm too late for that since I cut the frame a long time ago. That's a great idea though and would have made things a lot easier.
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