GM heritage info

[ho70]

This has probably been posted before, but has option prices and options for our trucks. Just change the year in the link for your truck

http://www.gmheritagecenter.com/docs...olet-Truck.pdf

[Keith Seymore]

Thank you;

here is the home page:

http://www.gmheritagecenter.com/

and the archive home:

http://www.gmheritagecenter.com/gm-h...ive/index.html

Clicking on the archive link takes you to the page shown by the original poster.

K

[72bowtiestepper]

Thanks for those links......Lot's of good info. !!

[Carl Spangler]

Those prices make me want to cry ~~~~~~~~~~

[butler57]

If you want information on Canadian made trucks you can contact Vintage Vehicles. For about $75 (used to be) they will track down all the info on your truck, list of options, date it was made, trim, dealer it went to etc etc. A little pricey but cool if you want to research the history of your truck. I believe it's for Canada only.

http://vintagevehicleservices.com/

[Carl Spangler]

Is there a database of build dates by S/N????

Edit: my 71 has a S/N of 622, 5xx and was built in Fremont Ca.

thanks
JohnG

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Carl Spangler

Is there a database of build dates by S/N????

Edit: my 71 has a S/N of 622, 5xx and was built in Fremont Ca.

thanks
JohnG

There is not a database maintained by General Motors. One of the guys here may be compiling something (which may be what you were asking).

By way of more info on your truck:

a) The "622": is that the number stamped on the cowl?

b) Chevy or GMC?

c) Can you share the next couple digits of the sequential portion of your VIN? (ie, 512xxx, or 573xxx or whatever).

K

[Carl Spangler]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

There is not a database maintained by General Motors. One of the guys here may be compiling something (which may be what you were asking).

By way of more info on your truck:

a) The "622": is that the number stamped on the cowl?

b) Chevy or GMC?

c) Can you share the next couple digits of the sequential portion of your VIN? (ie, 512xxx, or 573xxx or whatever).

K

My truck is a SWB 6 cylinder Chevy. The #'s on the frame, SPID, and door pillar all match. The VIN is CS141Z6225xx.

According to web info the S/N "for the plant" (Fremont Ca) start at 100,000 so this truck should be # 522,5xx produced at the Fremont assembly plant.

The engine has a casting date of Jan 1971 but that was in Flint so there would be some time to ship the engine to Ca. I'm guessing the truck's birth date is sometime in the summer of 71 but that's just a WAG at this point.

thanks
JohnG

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Carl Spangler

My truck is a SWB 6 cylinder Chevy. The #'s on the frame, SPID, and door pillar all match. The VIN is CS141Z6225xx.

According to web info the S/N "for the plant" (Fremont Ca) start at 100,000 so this truck should be # 522,5xx produced at the Fremont assembly plant.

The engine has a casting date of Jan 1971 but that was in Flint so there would be some time to ship the engine to Ca. I'm guessing the truck's birth date is sometime in the summer of 71 but that's just a WAG at this point.

thanks
JohnG

Ok - thank you. I misunderstood the format of your sequence number 6225xx so my questions are moot.

Sorry for the tangent...

K

[bruceman1968]

Carl, Here is a little fun fact. In 1971 the starting S/N, on chevy trucks was 600001. This is true for 1971 only. 1967-70 started at 100001, and 1972 started at 100001. But for whatever reason, the 1971 chevy trucks built in the US, started with 600001, for the main line.

[Carl Spangler]

Originally Posted by bruceman1968

Carl, Here is a little fun fact. In 1971 the starting S/N, on chevy trucks was 600001. This is true for 1971 only. 1967-70 started at 100001, and 1972 started at 100001. But for whatever reason, the 1971 chevy trucks built in the US, started with 600001, for the main line.

Ah............ that indeed is 'fun' fact!

So, it looks like my SWB C10 was # 22,5xx down the line at Fremont Ca.

Thanks!
JohnG

[1972SUPERSB]

It still bugs me that a lot more info is available for other gm cars like the 1967-1969 camaro, corvettes etc and not for our trucks. You can tell which month a camaro was built just by the vin #. Also how many V8 camaros were built with a certain engine. Everyone has said that the records were lost in a fire where they stored them? Can anyone elaborate on this? I'm sure somewhere out we these records are available.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 1972SUPERSB

It still bugs me that a lot more info is available for other gm cars like the 1967-1969 camaro, corvettes etc and not for our trucks. You can tell which month a camaro was built just by the vin #. Also how many V8 camaros were built with a certain engine. Everyone has said that the records were lost in a fire where they stored them? Can anyone elaborate on this? I'm sure somewhere out we these records are available.

The records were kept as financial documents, not as a future "find" for historically minded enthusiast.

As such, there wasn't a lot of thought taken back then to preserving them beyond their useful business life.

The records that were saved, for Camaros - and Pontiacs in particular - were more the result of "dumb luck" than any kind of conscious preservation effort.

I wouldn't hold out too much hope of all these "lost" records suddenly turning up.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Here's a little blurb I wrote about the creation of Pontiac Historic Services, the granddaddy of all these historic build archives.

It shows some of the twists, turns, coincidences, lawsuits and lucky breaks that are required in order to make these things come about.

Fred Simmonds was a Pontiac Motor Division salaried employee who went on to found the historic arm of PMD, and then represented Pontiac racing before his retirement in the early 90's. Jim Mattison was a Chevrolet employee in the COPO group before leaving the corporation to found PHS, which is still providing services to Pontiac enthusiasts today.

K

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Eric -

Have you or anyone ever written an article about the "pre-history" of PHS?

During our trip I asked Fred [Simmonds] about the technique he used to find the '62 and '63 Super Duty cars; before answering my question he framed the discussion by giving me the background of how he came to find the records and learn to use them, and how [Jim]Mattison came to found Pontiac Historic Services.

I was driving and couldn't write anything down but this is how I remember what he said:

Back in the middle 1980's he was "into" HO model trains but as he got older he was frustrated because he couldn't see what he was doing (apparently he has always had poor eyesight). He ended up selling all of his train stuff but found himself without a hobby. His wife suggested that he should get a car so after a brief search he found the '67 Lemans that he still has.

His initial introduction to the Pontiac records was through trying to find out information about his own car. He mentioned to one of the secretaries that he would like to know how his car was built and she said "oh, I can find that out". Sure enough, within a couple days she produced the invoice and option content (sort of a prehistoric "PHS" packet!). He asked her how she did that and she replied that the information still existed on property and that it was guarded by a financial person.

Fred later found out this financial guy was going to retire, so he began to visit with him and learn where the information was located and how it was stored. During this time (still mid 80's?) there was a lot of employee turmoil in the form of retirements and outright separations so there was a lot of stuff getting thrown out. Fred told all his friends he was interested in "right of first refusal" so anything they had that might be interesting was passed by him before being pitched. He said he would literally make a trip home every night with all kinds of photos, literature, memorabilia, hardware, trophies, paint samples, etc.

By this time they were receiving maybe a request or two a day from Pontiac enthusiasts (usually fellow employees) that had heard about this service. Between Fred or his friend they were able to fulfill these requests. Additionally, Fred would come in early and poke around, then maybe return at lunch time and finally spend some time in the records before heading home for the evening, just nosing around.

Eventually the requests got to be too much for one person to handle on a part time basis, maybe 20 or so a day. He and Jim Mattison had been friends before that and Jim had become quite familiar with the records and how they were organized (more on that in a minute). It was at that point that Jim approached Pontiac Motor Division and suggested that he could form a company (Automotive Services) and maintain the records and fulfill these requests for information. At that point the information would still belong to Pontiac (I'm guessing) but he would provide the service as a contractor (I'm sure). All of this was taking place while the records were down in the vault, in the basement of the Administration building.

Eventually, when the Administration building was "closed" (maybe not the right wording, but when the functions were rearranged or offices reallocated) that's when Jim and the records were relocated to Shows & Shoots (which is where I found him). I think you are familiar with the story about Pontiac taking the records back, and in their infinite wisdom they actually threw them out. Jim literally retrieved them from the dumpster which (I suspect) forms the foundation of the dispute over ownership which still exists today or was only recently resolved.

So - about the Super Dutys: The very first request had to do with one of the '62 Super Duty Grand Prix (Allan Gartzman's '62 Grand Prix; one of 16). Fred got a request to check into that car and, having been provided the VIN, he was able to confirm that it was in fact a Super Duty car. There was some variation in how the records were stored based on model year; the '62s were one way (maybe by VIN by Plant) and the '63s were different (like in VIN order by plant but grouped by body style). At any rate what he did was search for that car and then extend his search a little bit in both directions, looking for the engine option code. Eventually, he had a list of VINs going and so he expanded his search to include Catalinas and Bonnevilles (ie, non Grand Prix models) until he had a comprehensive list of 1962 cars. He looked through every 1962 invoice record; He said he continued on into '63 but did not actually look at them all - he went through 160,000 or so invoices but when he got out into the May or June timeframe it had been so long since he had seen any car that even remotely resembled a performance car that he gave up. Bottom line is that Fred literally went through hundreds of thousands of invoices, one by one (on the microfiche) in order to find those cars.

I thought it was fascinating and that others might also be interested. It might be a good idea to get this down on paper (accurately) before it's too late.

[1972SUPERSB]

Cool story! I like reading about stuff like that. I always wondered how do they know that there is a certain number of cars with this paint and interior like 1 of 15 or so on? Is there actually records of this for GM cars?

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 1972SUPERSB

Cool story! I like reading about stuff like that. I always wondered how do they know that there is a certain number of cars with this paint and interior like 1 of 15 or so on? Is there actually records of this for GM cars?

Well...yes; in the case of Pontiac it's because Fred sat down and counted them, one by one....

Some other GM production quantities exist but not many. Some of my friends have been mining the GM Heritage Center records and looking for information (which usually ends up being hand written spreadsheets created by Fred).

I wouldn't get too hung up in the "one of x" claims. The significant rare vehicle are known, typically because they are a special model or unique powertrain combination.

If you break it down far enough any vehicle is "1 of 1". I saw a Marti report which indicated a particular Mustang was "...the only blue car" of that model year and powertrain combination "which had the factory block heater".

I hope that makes my point.

K

[1972SUPERSB]

Yeah I know what you mean. Interesting stuff for sure.its like the COPO camaros with 69 only built. I can see that the info is known for that. I have seen cars for a sale at a well known auction stating a corvette with the L89 big block in a certain color. I know the there are numbers that show how many vettes were built with the L89 just not sure how they know how many were built with different paint colors or How many with standard or automatic trans