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Old 04-07-2017, 12:39 PM   #1
pwdcougar
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Rubbing sound when turning at low speed

Ok first off this isn't a truck or a chevy. It's on a 1969 Cougar. You guys here are much better than my Cougar forums.

At low speed the car feels/sounds like something is rubbing when turning. I am running oversized tires and wheels and it does not seem like the tires are actually rubbing. I jacked up the front end by the lower control arms turned the wheel lock to lock and there is plenty of clearance. The tires seem to turn fine and there is no movement when pulling on the top or bottom of the tire. This makes me want to rule out wheel bearings. All of the steering components are greased and feel solid. The rubbing feel is present at very low speed when there is no body roll.

What the heck am I missing?

Thanks

Paul
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:19 PM   #2
3drburb
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Re: Rubbing sound when turning at low speed

I would have guessed bearings but you somewhat ruled that out. So pull the front tires and check for rubbing on them or suspension parts and inner wheel wells etc also look for rubbing signs.
I would put smaller wheels and tires and run it around the block to see what happens.
Btw drums or disc brakes?
Sometimes the shake rest don't work on the drum brakes and It may also better to check while the tires are on the ground instead of in the air on jacks.
Also open the hood while you are doing this and check to see if the is coming from the power steering with the car running and turning the wheels.
Btw I am thinking as I'm typing so best order of checking stuff above before pulling the wheels.
Good luck.
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Old 04-07-2017, 03:40 PM   #3
Ghostwhite
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Re: Rubbing sound when turning at low speed

You need to look for issues with everything set to the ride height you are having problems with. Checking for rub marks is a great idea and can point you in the right direction.

Give us some more info on the suspension, is it stock with a bag or does it have a drop spindle, custom arms, etc. If the suspension isn't stock or even if it is, it may have a radical enough geometry change to cause one tire to scrub or slide across the ground due to bad ackerman or such.

If you can have someone else drive the car and you carefully check things out as the car creeps forward it may help find the problem.
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Old 04-07-2017, 09:34 PM   #4
pwdcougar
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Re: Rubbing sound when turning at low speed

Thanks guys for the tips I'll try walking next to it while someone drives it slow in a parking lot with the hood up.

The suspension is basically stock for the Cougar which is the same for the Mustangs of the same vintage. The only exception is poly bushings and stiffer springs and a wrist thick sway bar. The tires are much wider than stock. 235 or 225 50's on 15" rims. The rims have non stock backspacing and push the wheels out further.

When up on jack stands under the lower control arms there are no rubbing issues that I could see or feel. I ran my hand around the entire inside of the tire with no clearance issues. A friend said that he thinks the noise is more of a groaning noise. My hearing is shot and I wear hearing aids. They change the sound and even the location of the sound. Would rear wheel bearings make more noise on a corner? I've never changed them out.

Thanks again

Paul
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1969 Mercury Cougar Standard 4 speed
1969 Mercury Cougar XR7 convertible
1970 4WD Chevrolet Suburban
1968 2WD GMC Suburban
1997 4WD Chevrolet Silverado Extended Cab Short Bed (purchased new January 1997)
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Old 04-08-2017, 03:21 AM   #5
andrewmp6
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Re: Rubbing sound when turning at low speed

You sure your coil springs are fully seated ?And the spring perch on the upper control arm does it move freely and lubed if it has a fitting.And double check the strut rod on the body mount side.Don't tell anyone but im a early mustang fan lol.
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Old 04-08-2017, 11:34 AM   #6
chevy_mike
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Re: Rubbing sound when turning at low speed

My guess, with the wider tires and wheels offset out more, you have changed the Scrub Angle of the front end. Basically if you draw a line from the center of the top ball joint through the center of the bottom one (looking from the front) and see where that hits the ground, if it doesn't hit in the middle or inboard of the tire tread, this will cause more scrub and at low speeds you can hear/feel it.
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Old 04-08-2017, 02:04 PM   #7
pwdcougar
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Re: Rubbing sound when turning at low speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewmp6 View Post
You sure your coil springs are fully seated ?And the spring perch on the upper control arm does it move freely and lubed if it has a fitting.And double check the strut rod on the body mount side.Don't tell anyone but im a early mustang fan lol.

Thanks I'll check the movement of the upper arm and the strut rod

Paul
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1969 Mercury Cougar Standard 4 speed
1969 Mercury Cougar XR7 convertible
1970 4WD Chevrolet Suburban
1968 2WD GMC Suburban
1997 4WD Chevrolet Silverado Extended Cab Short Bed (purchased new January 1997)
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Old 04-08-2017, 02:08 PM   #8
pwdcougar
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Re: Rubbing sound when turning at low speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevy_mike View Post
My guess, with the wider tires and wheels offset out more, you have changed the Scrub Angle of the front end. Basically if you draw a line from the center of the top ball joint through the center of the bottom one (looking from the front) and see where that hits the ground, if it doesn't hit in the middle or inboard of the tire tread, this will cause more scrub and at low speeds you can hear/feel it.
Thanks Mike the explanation of scrub angle makes a lot of sense. I've had this wheel/tire set up on the car for 20 years now though and I've never had a problem till the last year or so. I don't think I've put 10K on the car since the restoration and the suspension components were put on. It was aligned last year too.

Maybe tomorrow when it is nice out I'll get someone to drive it around while I look and listen.

Thanks for all the suggestions

Paul
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1969 Mercury Cougar Standard 4 speed
1969 Mercury Cougar XR7 convertible
1970 4WD Chevrolet Suburban
1968 2WD GMC Suburban
1997 4WD Chevrolet Silverado Extended Cab Short Bed (purchased new January 1997)
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Old 04-14-2017, 02:11 PM   #9
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Re: Rubbing sound when turning at low speed

Finally had a day off with good weather and test drove while a friend walked next to the car. The noise is coming from the rear of the car! You can actually see the rear wheels shudder. I'll order up a set of rear wheel bearings and see if anyone in the area can press them on. Thanks for the help and suggestions!

Paul
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1969 Mercury Cougar Standard 4 speed
1969 Mercury Cougar XR7 convertible
1970 4WD Chevrolet Suburban
1968 2WD GMC Suburban
1997 4WD Chevrolet Silverado Extended Cab Short Bed (purchased new January 1997)
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:03 PM   #10
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Re: Rubbing sound when turning at low speed

And now for the follow up. The night before pulling the axles out and having new bearings pressed on I was out drinking with a friend. Told him the story and he said maybe the friction material in my posi (Ford Trac Lok) rear is locking up. I swapped in an open center section and presto, no chattering or rubbing sound. The open rear is a 3.0 and the posi is a 3.50. I miss the off the line snap but on the highway it should be much better.

Thanks for all the help!

Paul
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1969 Mercury Cougar Standard 4 speed
1969 Mercury Cougar XR7 convertible
1970 4WD Chevrolet Suburban
1968 2WD GMC Suburban
1997 4WD Chevrolet Silverado Extended Cab Short Bed (purchased new January 1997)
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:23 PM   #11
darrellyates
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Re: Rubbing sound when turning at low speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwdcougar View Post
And now for the follow up. The night before pulling the axles out and having new bearings pressed on I was out drinking with a friend. Told him the story and he said maybe the friction material in my posi (Ford Trac Lok) rear is locking up. I swapped in an open center section and presto, no chattering or rubbing sound. The open rear is a 3.0 and the posi is a 3.50. I miss the off the line snap but on the highway it should be much better.

Thanks for all the help!

Paul
You should have tried just adding friction modifier. My C10 did the same thing. The friction modifier at the parts house is worthless. I only use Ford friction modifier in all the rear ends. It's clutch chatter. The Ford friction modifier fixed mine. (I run it all my cars with posi rear axles...)
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:37 PM   #12
pwdcougar
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Re: Rubbing sound when turning at low speed

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Originally Posted by darrellyates View Post
You should have tried just adding friction modifier. My C10 did the same thing. The friction modifier at the parts house is worthless. I only use Ford friction modifier in all the rear ends. It's clutch chatter. The Ford friction modifier fixed mine. (I run it all my cars with posi rear axles...)

That's what I tried first. Using my vacuum pump I got out 90% of the old fluid, added the friction modifier and topped off with gear oil. I drove it for a few days and there was no change.

Paul
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1969 Mercury Cougar Standard 4 speed
1969 Mercury Cougar XR7 convertible
1970 4WD Chevrolet Suburban
1968 2WD GMC Suburban
1997 4WD Chevrolet Silverado Extended Cab Short Bed (purchased new January 1997)
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