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Old 11-07-2009, 09:42 PM   #1
Scot_Douglas
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1966 C10 frame-off, er, sorta - resto, but with IRS?

I picked up a decent condition 1966 C-10 that a friend was selling for a friend. I was looking for a project that my wife and I could work on together (and she really likes single-cab pickups).

It was a Utah truck until a few years ago, and it still is pretty rusty in places - but the frame and everything else is in great shape - well, that is, before I spent some time lying beneath it changing oil. Truck looks like it was hit fairly hard in the front end and had to have the doghouse replaced. Frame rails ahead of the front suspension crossmember are hosed - need to take it to a frame shop and see what they have to say about it. Truck goes down the road good - but the bed looks a bit tweaked. All-in-all, it is a 43 year-old truck, and **** happens. Hoping the frame is fine or can be easily fixed - I will probably cut out the bent parts and weld in new frame rails ahead of the engine.

Here are some pictures:






It's a plain-jane 66 C-10 with a 195 hp 283 driving the rear wheels through a (I think) Saginaw 4-speed. Single-circuit 4 wheel drum brakes (the parking brake still works!) I found the build sheet wedged between the seat foam and springs of my seatback - I have to take photos of it, cause it's so brittle I doubt I could get it out without ruining it.

Plans:
  • Replace braking system with modern dual-circuit power MC and disc brakes
  • All new suspension bushings, TREs, springs, shocks and add swaybars
  • Power steering if I can find a setup that isn't over-boosted like the old GM setups I remember from growing up
  • Relocate fuel tank from cab to behind the rear axle (under the bed)
  • Cut out all rust and weld in patch panels
  • Redo the wiring harness
  • Lower 3" in front, 4" in rear
  • Blast and powdercoat frame and suspension
  • Nasty SBC to pose as the original 283

Looking for a MIG welder to get the party started - Though some research on the H.A.M.B. led me to THIS.

I just replaced the points/plugs/cap/wire/rotor/plugs/coil and it looks like #3 and #5 cylinders are pretty fouled. Good thind I just brought home a rebuilt 377 today. (standard bore 350 with a machined 400 crank).

Tomorrow, I'm going to go grab a friend's cherry picker and engine stand and plan what gets torn down first - we'll keep driving it until the snow flies before we tear it down.
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Last edited by Scot_Douglas; 03-21-2011 at 07:40 AM. Reason: thrilling new title.
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Old 11-07-2009, 09:42 PM   #2
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

Worked on a bit of the electrical system:

Wiring is a bit "custom" and the battery cables were in horrible shape - so I started out changing things I can w/o lots of work.

teeny cables....


Battery box in decent shape,


Cleaning everything with bicarbonate of soda:




Black hammer paint I had lying around - mostly just for short-term protection:


Finished:



(please note polish anti-theft device)

See ya!




One last thing - is a V8 tailpipe supposed to be this small? It sure is cute... :d:
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Old 11-07-2009, 09:45 PM   #3
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

I'm also trying to figure out which transmission I want to run with the stroker motor - I think the oem 4 speed might not like the power and it'll be a bit difficult to shift quickly (if needed ).

Are there any manual transmissions out there we can put n these trucks and have the shifter in approximately the stock location?

Thanks!
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Old 11-07-2009, 09:52 PM   #4
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

hi from michigan here to before i did all that work fixing that frame i would just find a different frame there around know where two short bed frames are but no long bed frames at the time good luck with the truck
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Old 11-07-2009, 09:57 PM   #5
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

Welcome to the site- a lot of good info here. Looks like a great project.
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Old 11-07-2009, 10:03 PM   #6
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

from AZ. I love wire nuts and clamps when I open a hood. I would check the frame to see if its square across some of the x-members. Rolling around underneath it for awhile will allow you to judge how much your wife is into it!!

Dont know about your trans question...all autos here.
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Old 11-07-2009, 10:10 PM   #7
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

Nice truck!

Here's hoping that your frame is straight so you can move on to the fun stuff!
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Old 11-07-2009, 10:23 PM   #8
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

I love the picture in the woods.
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Save the dinosaurs, use synthetic oil.

Last edited by Slow Build; 11-08-2009 at 03:19 AM.
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Old 11-08-2009, 02:27 AM   #9
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

Welcome to the board

By the look of things under the hood, it appears to be unmolested for the most part. Bummer about the frame. I agree that it may be better to get another frame.....that is if they are easy to find in your area.

As for the trans, any other trans that has the same shifter location isn't going to shift much better than the SM420 that is most likely in there now. If quicker shifts are what you're after, then you will need to look for a car 4 speed. They will fit without a lot of work, although the shifter will be close to the seat. If your budget allows I would consider something like the Tremec 5 speeds.
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Old 11-08-2009, 03:01 AM   #10
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

cool build
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Old 11-08-2009, 08:09 AM   #11
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

Quote:
Originally Posted by c.brown View Post
hi from michigan here to before i did all that work fixing that frame i would just find a different frame there around know where two short bed frames are but no long bed frames at the time good luck with the truck
I tend to agree with you - but I'm going to get it on a frame jig before I pass final judgment. If you could see how clean the rest of the frame is - you'd see why I want to save it. I'm sure you know what a rarity a rust-free *ANYTHING* is in Michigan! lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by DPowers View Post
Welcome to the site- a lot of good info here. Looks like a great project.
Thanks for the welcome, and expect some stupid questions and ideas along the way. =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by protrash64 View Post
from AZ. I love wire nuts and clamps when I open a hood. I would check the frame to see if its square across some of the x-members. Rolling around underneath it for awhile will allow you to judge how much your wife is into it!!

Dont know about your trans question...all autos here.
She's already concerned about my OCD on the truck. I tend to learn everything about something that I can, figure out what I want to do, then do it - and I don't let much get in my way. An excellent example is her latest mountainbike; she's really been getting good and was starting to get held back by her older bike and the fact she's so small - a "regular" bike doesn't fit her well.

I've been building and riding bicycles for a long, long time, so I squirreled away some money, then built her this:



In a nutshell, it is a long-travel "all-mountain" bike with disc brakes that weighs just over 22 lb. I used every trick I've learned from racing bikes and building them to build this (but was too heavy to use).

And, um...the wire nut was my quick fix to repair something I messed up. heh heh - there was stray wires that led from the battery (with one being connected to that spring clamp) to the electric fan the P.O. put in for the woodward dream cruise. I cut both back, then learned the one line was the +12V for the whole truck! Of course, that will change, but alas - the wire nut was my doing for a couple of days. =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by monolith View Post
Nice truck!

Here's hoping that your frame is straight so you can move on to the fun stuff!
Thanks! Me too! =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow Build View Post
I love the picture in the woods.
That's my yard! lol Here's other angles:





It's all in the angle.... =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainfab View Post
Welcome to the board

By the look of things under the hood, it appears to be unmolested for the most part. Bummer about the frame. I agree that it may be better to get another frame.....that is if they are easy to find in your area.

As for the trans, any other trans that has the same shifter location isn't going to shift much better than the SM420 that is most likely in there now. If quicker shifts are what you're after, then you will need to look for a car 4 speed. They will fit without a lot of work, although the shifter will be close to the seat. If your budget allows I would consider something like the Tremec 5 speeds.
I'm hoping for the best on the frame, expecting the worst. =)

As for the trans - I was also thinking a NV4500 would be nice to have, just because it would be a 5 speed with a granny and an O.D. gear. I have no idea what gearing I have in the truck now - assuming it is stock, as everything else is.

The biggest problem with using a different trans is the shifter needs to be far enough forward in the cab for my wife to move the seat forward when she drives. I'm not sure we'd have the option of a car transmission. Also, my wife HATES AUTOMATIC TRANMISSIONS!!! She really likes the gear whine of the stock box too - I tell her it's the only thing I've ever heard that whines more than her!


Quote:
Originally Posted by jgh64pkup View Post
cool build
Thank you, young master Gage. In all honesty, I hope to develop a lot of the skills you show in your build thread (and a little less enthusiasm for building my own mufflers, lol ). A compliment from you (and everybody else I've seen on this forum) is truly an honor.


Thanks for all the great responses.

Scot
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:09 AM   #12
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

Okay.

I now am the proud owner of a rebuilt 377 stroker that didn't come with the flywheel or damper - so I'm about to have the rotating assy balanced when I realized one thing:

What problems am I going to run into with a different flywheel/clutch assy bolting this up to the stock SM420?

I guess I'm in the dark about flywheel size/tooth count/clutch size (10.5"/11"/12"). I need to use a 400 SBC flywheel, as that is what is sitting in the 377.

Any idears?

Scot
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Old 11-12-2009, 06:00 PM   #13
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

what kind of 377
a 350 block or a 400 block
i think the 400 block uses a 350 balancer and flywheel the crank should be internally balanced already
and if you have a 350 block then you will use the 400 externally balnced stuff
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Old 11-12-2009, 06:27 PM   #14
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

Welcome!! Cool build and pics.
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:29 PM   #15
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

Welcome. I grew up right next door in Pinckney before I moved to San Diego about 6 1/2 years ago. I really miss the woods and seasons.
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:12 AM   #16
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

The SM420 with the stock cast iron bellhousing is designed to use the 168 tooth flywheel. The size of clutch will depend on how the flywheel is drilled. Some will accept a 12" clutch, others will only accept an 11" clutch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scot_Douglas View Post
Okay.

I now am the proud owner of a rebuilt 377 stroker that didn't come with the flywheel or damper - so I'm about to have the rotating assy balanced when I realized one thing:

What problems am I going to run into with a different flywheel/clutch assy bolting this up to the stock SM420?

I guess I'm in the dark about flywheel size/tooth count/clutch size (10.5"/11"/12"). I need to use a 400 SBC flywheel, as that is what is sitting in the 377.

Any idears?

Scot
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Old 11-13-2009, 08:25 AM   #17
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgh64pkup View Post
what kind of 377
a 350 block or a 400 block
i think the 400 block uses a 350 balancer and flywheel the crank should be internally balanced already
and if you have a 350 block then you will use the 400 externally balnced stuff
350 block / machined 400 crankshaft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan's Classic View Post
Welcome!! Cool build and pics.
Thank you Alan! I look forward to your critique of our bodywork once it starts!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlisabeth View Post
Welcome. I grew up right next door in Pinckney before I moved to San Diego about 6 1/2 years ago. I really miss the woods and seasons.
I love Michigan, but hate our Governor and how the government exploits our natural resources. Anyway, HI!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainfab View Post
The SM420 with the stock cast iron bellhousing is designed to use the 168 tooth flywheel. The size of clutch will depend on how the flywheel is drilled. Some will accept a 12" clutch, others will only accept an 11" clutch.
THANK YOU!!! This is the info I needed but couldn't find!
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Old 11-13-2009, 03:18 PM   #18
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scot_Douglas View Post
350 block / machined 400 crankshaft
so its a standard bore 383
okay you will need to use a 400 balancer and flywheel
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Old 11-13-2009, 03:51 PM   #19
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

""It was a Utah truck until a few years ago, and it still is pretty rusty in places - but the frame and everything else is in great shape - well, that is, before I spent some time lying beneath it changing oil. Truck looks like it was hit fairly hard in the front end and had to have the doghouse replaced. Frame rails ahead of the front suspension crossmember are hosed - need to take it to a frame shop and see what they have to say about it. Truck goes down the road good - but the bed looks a bit tweaked. All-in-all, it is a 43 year-old truck, and **** happens. Hoping the frame is fine or can be easily fixed - I will probably cut out the bent parts and weld in new frame rails ahead of the engine.""

that more than likely explain the GMC grille
ron
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Old 11-13-2009, 08:21 PM   #20
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgh64pkup View Post
so its a standard bore 383
okay you will need to use a 400 balancer and flywheel
LOL, I knew that. Actually, looks like I'm going to use one from a 454 and my machinist will alter that one to work (it is also externally balanced)

Quote:
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that more than likely explain the GMC grille
ron
Hey Ron - I love that GMC grille.
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Old 11-14-2009, 12:39 AM   #21
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scot_Douglas View Post
LOL, I knew that. Actually, looks like I'm going to use one from a 454 and my machinist will alter that one to work (it is also externally balanced)
Since you're having it balanced, you can start with a regular internally balanced flywheel......that is unless you already have a 454 flywheel.
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Old 11-15-2009, 08:35 PM   #22
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

Well, today I started to tear down the engine I bought - these are the specs that were listed:

Quote:
The motor is a 377-CID stroker combination :
- 350 block STD bore and a 400 crank machined to fit the 350 journals.
- 5.565" rods and STD 350 pistons
- 4 bolt main block with fresh cylinder hone
- Hydraulic flat tappet cam, 224 Int/ 234 Exh @ 0.050" lift
- All new bearings and gaskets.
- Heads are GM 882 casting with mild port and polish job,76cc. 9.5:1 compression, with 2.02/1.60 valves
- Intake is gasket matched to the heads
- Engine is painted blue
- Intake is powder coated oxide red
I'm much more versed in rebuilding motorcycle engines, but I don't think a few things are right...

These "new bearings" sure look funny...


Must have used a different gasket to do the matching...


I got cheated on my dial gauge! Clearly, I have 2.02" intake valves, but my calipers must be off...



Something for no extra charge!


These must be for improved oiling:



Sigh. What a BLEEPING mess. "Fresh hone" must mean knocking down the ridge until you go through a set of stones.

I bought this engine from someone that bought it from someone else that traded something for it in the beginning - so, I'm not about to go trying to get my money back. Looks like I'll have a bit more work to do.

I haven't plastiguaged the mains yet - just the four of the rods... and they are from 0.007 to 0.03. (that's NOT a typo). I hope to hell the mains are in spec and I can get away with having the crank cleaned up and the rods resized - though who knows what else is hosed with this damn thing.
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Old 11-15-2009, 08:42 PM   #23
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

Wow!!!! That sucks bro! Sorry to hear that.
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Old 11-15-2009, 08:46 PM   #24
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

um............
is the crank at least a 400 crank
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Old 11-15-2009, 11:29 PM   #25
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Re: Starting my first build - 1966 C10

Is that bike a Blur? My buddy rides a few of those in Nor Cal. When i would visit him, we would ride for a week straight. He still has a V10, and a Heckler. I think he sold his Blur for a Ellesworth.

Anyway, I like your truck. Its the same colors as mine. Except mine has a white roof. My frame is good, but the body is packed with bondo. I tore mine down too. It's been 4 months. About 1 or 2 weeks from having it put back together. Good luck on yours!
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