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Old 09-07-2010, 07:08 PM   #51
68GMCCustom
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Re: Make it handle

Great news Nate. Maybe you'll come up with a custom coil over/rack and pinion IFS for me!
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'68 GMC short step - NIB '09 LY6 6.0L crate motor w/mods, NIB '12 crate 4L85e w/billet 3k stall Circle D, 3.73 posi 12 bolt, DynaTech f-swap headers, 3/4 drop, handling mods, etc. - my toy
'72 Chevy LWB C-10 Highlander - 350/350 ps/pb/tilt/ac - not original but close
'06 Chevy TrailBlazerSS - LS2/4L70e - little black hot rod SUV - my DD
'16 Kia Sorento - wife's econo-driver

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Old 09-07-2010, 08:41 PM   #52
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Re: Make it handle

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Originally Posted by robnolimit View Post
SBTork, if your not going drasticaly low, use a Ridetech kit on the stock arms, upgrade to urathane bushings, pay for the good shocks, and add a rear sway bar.
Thanks for answering my questions Rob. Also, a big congrats on the truck doing so well, i'd love to see the looks on everyones faces when they saw the time you posted once the truck crossed the finish line

Also, if you get a chance, I have a few more. I am low now, maybe going lower but not laying frame anytime soon. I have a fully rebuilt front end, new energy suspension control arm bushings and sway bar bushings. CPP tie rod end sleeves. And I am about to put in some KYB GR2 shocks, not expensive but not the cheapest either. If I were to get some different/better shocks, any suggestions? It's lowered in the front about 5-5.5" thanks to stock cut springs and 2.5" drop spindles. It rides good, but why not make it better?

I'd like to add a truck/trailing arm rear suspension to it someday aswell. Does the CPP kit for the pickups work in the suburbans? Nate, would your newly designed rear touring style kit work in the suburban platform? Does anyone make a kit that would work with some modifications? Has anyone seen this done to a suburban? This would be a down the road type upgrade.

I have a feeling it's going to be a really big challenge to make this '85 Burb handle well. And maybe it's not realistic at all but I think it would be fun to surprise some people in an old suburban. I don't need to pull any g's in the corners but I would like to do some "autocross" type driving. I don't plan on being really competitive but don't want to be a joke either.
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Old 09-08-2010, 12:23 AM   #53
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Re: Make it handle

I'm in the same boat here just trying to decide where to start. When I start pricing out suspension, front ends, shocks, brakes blah blah etc etc then I look at a fully done chassis like Art Morrison or Jim Meyers or what ever for like $10G, the 10 g's isn't all that much more than I'd end up spending to make a 45 year old frame work. Am I on crack here or is the replacement chassis a better way to go? It's a lot of money all at once is the problem.

Have you guys seen this article? This truck sold this year at Barrett Jackson for $95,000.00 and really more like 105 after fees etc.


http://www.truckinweb.com/tech/1001t...dup/index.html



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Old 09-08-2010, 12:39 AM   #54
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Re: Make it handle

Hey Rob,

Whats a good universal sway bar kit to use on the rear of an airbagged truck (53' Dodge).

Also how stucturally rigid should a frame be? Im building a new frame for my dodge and i want it to corner and handle good but nothing crazy. Would something like this be good enough? (pic below)


(picture belongs to abadsvt)

Or

like the one in the back ground



Also what about a satchell Link, there suppose to lower your roll center if i remember correctly? Are the good for a rear suspension setup?


Thanks Justin

Last edited by FnLow69; 09-08-2010 at 01:12 AM.
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Old 09-08-2010, 04:03 PM   #55
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Re: Make it handle

SBTork - I like the KYB, its a good shock fot the money. I would rate my favorites as follows, $$ low to high. - Doetsch tech - KYB - Bilstien - Romic billit w/rebound adjust - QA-1 double adjustable. Ride tech is also working on some new shocks, but I haven't tested them yet.
M5, Complete frames can be a good solution and save soon time. We make a pretty nice a 63-72 chassis as well as our 47-59 Big 10 chassis. You can see then on our web site. Be carefull when choosing, some manufacturers do NOT include body, bed or bumper mounts.
FnLOW 69, ha I love this. Our bike shop is Fn'A cycle. - We tell some people it's for Fast & Accurate Ha Ha Ha. I would add a tube across the bottom of the drive shaft loop. I would guess there is a trans mount joining the front of your center section ? Pluss two small tubes, diagonally from the front side of the hoop, just in front of the rear bars - down to the top of your center section, at about 45 deg. All the mid-work is pointless if it's not joined together. I see many chassis (and get a laugh) that have very exotic center sections, with only one point connecting the two sides, may as well just run a tube across. Yours is lookin pretty good. The chassis in the background is a Morrison Tri-5, the one in the front is a Jim Myer 63-72. Chech out Speedway engineering for sway bar parts. they have all you need.
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:25 AM   #56
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Re: Make it handle

Thanks Rob, the picture isnt of my frame but was thinking of doing something similar to it in the center. What about a satchell link are they worth the effort or should i run a parallel 4 bar and panhard?

Justin
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:50 PM   #57
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Re: Make it handle

Thanks again Rob, keep up the good work!
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Old 09-09-2010, 08:46 PM   #58
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Re: Make it handle

Hmmmmm! Likin this!! Great info and sum nice work guys.
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Old 09-10-2010, 04:33 PM   #59
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Re: Make it handle

OK, lets get back to it. Here's the big question, AIR, or COIL???? I am sure that everyone has an opinion. I get this question everyday, and sometimes I'm not sure myself. EVERY trucker/trucker wants something a bit different. So, here are some of my thoughts. An bag is really an air-SPRING. And yes, they need SHOCKS. An air spring does the same job as a steel spring. So, the big question is, do you want to raise and lower it, or not. Also, are you looking for the smoothest ride, or are you thinking about totally hard-core performance? Remember that a properly set up air ride system needs a control package. This can mean swithes, guages..... and difficulty in tuning the stance for the driver. For this reason, I always use a 'smart' controller, such as the RideTech 'E' series, or the accuair. Level sensing is great for street and touring, as it is the most accurate to ride-height. But, I prefere pressure only, if it is a race/performance set-up. Lets think about the difference. In a street application, my goal is to build a real car, just like you can buy at the dealership. Think about that. Can your wife/girlfriend hop in and drive it? Can you toss the keys to a buddy and tell him to run down to the store? If they can't drive it, it's not a real car! This meansit has to be simple to opperate, and trouble free. - computer controlled level sensing. Now, no one would expect to toss the keys to a race car to a stranger and have them drive it, not without a rundown of the controls. on a street car you want the ride hieght to stay the same, on a performance car, you will set each corners weight based on track conditions. Think about that for now. - My lunch is over, back to work
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:44 PM   #60
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Re: Make it handle

well well well......... Look what the cat drug in......


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Old 09-10-2010, 08:36 PM   #61
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Re: Make it handle

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH , HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA (breath) HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH. OK, now I need a bit of help here, when its coming to air vs coil. You gonna help? For everyone else, this joke will take too long to explain, and would all pass the %^#$ out! Have a great weekend bro.
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Old 09-12-2010, 02:07 PM   #62
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Re: Make it handle

I made a Speedway Engineering sway bars for my Sub. I got a 1-3/4" bar on the front and a 1-1/4" on the rear. I ride my truck @ 3" with Slam RS 72 front and rear with Rancho Comp 9000 shocks. I can tune the shocks a little. They are pretty good for the price. I can throw the keys to anybody to drive it....I did @ the Goodguys West Coast Nationals...let my buddy and dad drive it to the show. They didn't need to mess with the air ride except to lay it out. Thanks to AccuAir E-level!!!!
I want to take it through the autocross and see what it does. It handle really well.... I just don't know what I will break. I should go practice driving it through some cones...
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Old 09-12-2010, 07:22 PM   #63
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Re: Make it handle

Thats good to hear. Nice to know you have a 'real' truck, isn't it. I have used the rancho shocks before, and I like them. There are many good shocks out there. If you can, try setting your caster at 6+ deg. you'll be shoched at how it drives.
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:52 AM   #64
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Re: Make it handle

I agree with you there Rob ....... 5-6 degrees of caster and .5 Camber....
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:54 AM   #65
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Re: Make it handle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony@AirRideTech View Post
I agree with you there Rob ....... 5-6 degrees of caster and .5 Camber....
-.5° camber right? Not being specific might confuse some people....
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Old 09-13-2010, 03:37 PM   #66
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Re: Make it handle

Negative on the CAMBER, positive on the CASTER. yep
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:18 PM   #67
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Re: Make it handle

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Originally Posted by robnolimit View Post
Negative on the CAMBER, positive on the CASTER. yep

Like you know anything about getting a truck to handle in the corners Hey man, Are you displaying at Scottsdale Goodguys this fall ?
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:00 AM   #68
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Re: Make it handle

So for starting from scratch with a new frame for cornering. Any suggestions on what to start with? Tube size and thickness?Design suggestions beyond what you've already covered. The truck will be on coilovers, and I'm not in a rush, I'm starting with the research now. I've been going off of Chassis Engineering and reading that book front to back, but wanted to know about where to begin, besides with paper and then some small models to test bracing and such.

Last edited by leftcoast66; 09-14-2010 at 02:29 AM.
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Old 09-14-2010, 09:27 AM   #69
68GMCCustom
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Re: Make it handle

as long as we have the caster and camber specs......whats the toe?
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'68 GMC short step - NIB '09 LY6 6.0L crate motor w/mods, NIB '12 crate 4L85e w/billet 3k stall Circle D, 3.73 posi 12 bolt, DynaTech f-swap headers, 3/4 drop, handling mods, etc. - my toy
'72 Chevy LWB C-10 Highlander - 350/350 ps/pb/tilt/ac - not original but close
'06 Chevy TrailBlazerSS - LS2/4L70e - little black hot rod SUV - my DD
'16 Kia Sorento - wife's econo-driver

my '68's powertrain and chassis build -links broken
A surprise phase - carb to efi -links broken
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:57 AM   #70
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Re: Make it handle

Tony @ Ridetech.

I took this off the Ridetech website but it doesn't state the caster angles. Does this mean the Strong arms have the needed caster correction?

M5


Geometry - Geometry of a suspension starts with the position of the frame mounts and the height of the spindle, not the shape of the control arm. However, there are a few small things in control arm design that can make a big difference in how a vehicle drives and performs.

•We create extra caster potential by adjusting the fore and aft position of the ball joints. At the same time we make sure the wheel is properly positioned in the wheel-well so your new 18" wheels fit like they should!
•The balljoint camber travel is re-centered to accommodate the new lowered ride height so the ball joint doesn’t bind during extreme suspension movement.
•The perimeter of the StrongArms is contoured to allow maximum wheel clearance and turning radius.
•All shock mounts, airspring mounts, and swaybar mounts are integrated into the design so you don’t have to finish the engineering in order to enjoy your ride!

StrongArms™ are optimized to allow proper camber adjustment at your new lowered ride height without using a large stack of shims.
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:46 PM   #71
Tony@AirRideTech
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Re: Make it handle

Quote:
Originally Posted by M5- View Post
Tony @ Ridetech.

I took this off the Ridetech website but it doesn't state the caster angles. Does this mean the Strong arms have the needed caster correction?

M5


Geometry - Geometry of a suspension starts with the position of the frame mounts and the height of the spindle, not the shape of the control arm. However, there are a few small things in control arm design that can make a big difference in how a vehicle drives and performs.

•We create extra caster potential by adjusting the fore and aft position of the ball joints. At the same time we make sure the wheel is properly positioned in the wheel-well so your new 18" wheels fit like they should!
•The balljoint camber travel is re-centered to accommodate the new lowered ride height so the ball joint doesn’t bind during extreme suspension movement.
•The perimeter of the StrongArms is contoured to allow maximum wheel clearance and turning radius.
•All shock mounts, airspring mounts, and swaybar mounts are integrated into the design so you don’t have to finish the engineering in order to enjoy your ride!

StrongArms™ are optimized to allow proper camber adjustment at your new lowered ride height without using a large stack of shims.

Yes, They will allow you to achieve those alignment specs
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:47 PM   #72
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Re: Make it handle

Quote:
Originally Posted by 68GMCCustom View Post
as long as we have the caster and camber specs......whats the toe?

Toes are on your feet

Sorry..... I guess i could have gave you an answer.... 1/8" Toe-in unless you are running old school Bias plys... then you can go a little more.

Last edited by Tony@AirRideTech; 09-14-2010 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 09-14-2010, 03:48 PM   #73
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Re: Make it handle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony@AirRideTech View Post
Toes are on your feet

Sorry..... I guess i could have gave you an answer.... 1/8" Toe-in unless you are running old school Bias plys... then you can go a little more.
Is the increased caster 'potential' on Ride Techs a-arms from both top & bottom arms or ?? I didn't know if the uppers or lowers were responsible for the increases.
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod
64SWB-Recycle
89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck
90SWB Driver
All Fleetsides

Building a small, high rpm engine
with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive...
like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar.

Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol....

Last edited by SCOTI; 09-14-2010 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:04 PM   #74
68GMCCustom
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Re: Make it handle

I thought it was the uppers....at least thats what I understood and went with.
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Kurt -

'68 GMC short step - NIB '09 LY6 6.0L crate motor w/mods, NIB '12 crate 4L85e w/billet 3k stall Circle D, 3.73 posi 12 bolt, DynaTech f-swap headers, 3/4 drop, handling mods, etc. - my toy
'72 Chevy LWB C-10 Highlander - 350/350 ps/pb/tilt/ac - not original but close
'06 Chevy TrailBlazerSS - LS2/4L70e - little black hot rod SUV - my DD
'16 Kia Sorento - wife's econo-driver

my '68's powertrain and chassis build -links broken
A surprise phase - carb to efi -links broken
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:07 PM   #75
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Re: Make it handle

Yes, we'll be in scottsdale. - Dirty Dog Saloon!!!. 1/8" toe in is just right on the street. If you go autocrossing (autoX), take some wrenches with you. When you get to the track, loosen the lock bolts on the tie-rods, and turn them to toe out one full rotation each. this will toe the truck out a bit, and it WILL turn in a bit faster. When your done, set it back and drive home.
LeftCoast, Start with a plan. Wheel and tire size are important to know so you can establish axle/spindle center hieght and ride hieght. Give yourself 3 to 4" above the axle for travel, then lay out your rear step design. Do your best to keep the lower A-Arm level or running downhill 3 to 5 degrees at ride height.
but a copy of Herb Adams suspension book. If your a computer guy, buy a copy of "suspension geometry pro" Knowledge is power, and it is way cheaper to do it right the first time.
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