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Old 04-17-2017, 01:14 PM   #1
NeoJuice
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What Rear End to Use?

Hello Everyone,

I need some help to determine if I should swap out the 1980 Pontiac Trams Am rear end/10 bolt that is currently in the truck. The problem is finding all the parts to get it driveable. I need new rotors, calipers, ebrake cables, brake lines etc etc. The truck has the TCI Parabolic Leaf Spring Rear Suspension.

Problem is some of the parts are not available at retailers and some of the needed parts are not made by aftermarket manufacturers.

I thought I was being smart and thought if I couldnt find all the disc brake parts I would just buy a rear disc swap kit. After talking with Ed at http://www.getdiscbrakes.com/ he said the kit will not fit. I got the correct 3 1/8" flange at the end of the axle tube but the problem is with the brake gap.

Ed said "THIS MEASUREMENT IS FROM THE OUTBOARD SIDE OF THE AXLE TUBE FLANGE TO THE OUTBOARD SIDE OF THE AXLE SHAFT FLANGE (WHERE THE WHEEL BOLTS ON) WE ARE LOOKING FOR 2.5 TO 2.6"

Mine is way more then that, I'm at 2 5/8" plus the thickness of the rear caliper plate ( I didnt have time to remove the rear axels) so this is a rough measurement. Apparenlty the disc brake rear ends are slightly different as read below and verified by getdiscbrakes.com

http://transamcountry.com/community/...?topic=40451.0



I'm lost on what to do because a local retailer is going to be having a sale with all the needed parts for pretty cheap then me paying even more then that to try and piece it all together.



So now the question is.....If I look for a s10 rear end, which are available pretty much at any junk yard and online kijiji/craigs list. What rear should I put in the truck? I would like to eventually run some 18-20" wheels and something with posi would be nice. Truck has origional frame under it and really if I can use the existing rear I would but I dont know if it will be possible. It's already been sand blasted and painted to match the frame.

Thank you for your time. Here is a link to my build thread for referance pictures.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=723325
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:05 PM   #2
1project2many
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

Centrix shows most of the parts including pads, rotors, and calipers. https://centricparts.centriccatalog....&uid=ANR&sid=0

It appears that cables are available on Ebay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/190822088750?rmvSB=true

As far as swapping parts from another application, the answer would be to compare the original rotor hat depth with others and try to build a kit around those numbers. The S10 rear disc is different for certain:

Camaro:
https://centricparts.centriccatalog....7&i=1&uid=ANR&

Blazer 2WD:
https://centricparts.centriccatalog....7&i=1&uid=ANR&

If you want to swap rear axles the best choice may be a ZR2 optioned S10 axle. It has an 8.5" differential and is wider than the 2wd version.

Last edited by 1project2many; 04-17-2017 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:23 PM   #3
mongocanfly
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

And the zr2 comes with the gov-loc diff and 3.73 gears..if you are willing to step outside the gm family I think the 8.8 expolerer is another popular rear
on Eds rear measurement can you run a spacer on the axle end to get your measurement down to 2.5? Wouldnt need to be but about 1/8-3/16" thick...
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:25 PM   #4
Russell Ashley
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

I have an 80 TA rear in my 57 truck. When I got the rear the calipers, rotors, and all of the other brake parts had been lost. I bought a disk brake kit from SpeedWay Motors to get the main parts but also the small parts like fasteners and everything else needed. It is the perfect fit for my truck and centers the wheels in the fenders.
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:10 AM   #5
la hi
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

I put a 95 camaro rear end with positraction, 321 gears and I have a problem. The rear end is two wide and the tires will not fit into the wheel wells. Cost about $400.
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:58 AM   #6
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

if you plan on more power at some point and/or tire roasting then the 8.8 ford is a better choice because it is stronger. they are available from an explorer but will have the centre section offset to one side. if you already have some stuff mounted under your truck then that may interfere. there is an 8.8 in a mustang with a centred center section though. they have drum or disc brake set ups. you would have to cut the old suspension brackets off so you have a bare axle tube and then weld on your own mounts for springs, available at a spring/trailer axle shop for cheap. you would also have to redrill the axle flanges for your wheel bolt pattern and install chevy sized wheel studs but that isn't a huge deal either. if you get an 89.8 from somewhere try to get the rear part of the driveshaft as well because they are a flat flange yoke that mates to a flat flange on the driveshaft which houses ther ujoint. there is a regualr yoke availlable for a normal chevy style ujoint I believe. also grab the park brake cables and their centering link.
one thing to watch for is the size of the disc rotors so you will get the right bias front to rear. also you need a disc/disc master cylinder if you go the disc front and rear.
there is really nothing wrong with drum rear brakes if you already have drum set up on the camaro axle. the brake bias is more brakes on the front than the rear anyway.
I went the same route as you, got an s10 rear with discs etc, mocked it up, found it was too narrow for my likings. sure, a huge offset wheel could be used with more stress on the wheel bearing and axle. research found they are not as strong as I thought. sold it.
went to the camaro diff. had the disc brakes etc.mocked it up then researched and found they aren't any stronger than the s10. sold it.
looked for a 12 bolt truck axle from late '60's. found not that readily available and also usually only have drum brakes and need a total rebuilt. was stuck on disc rear. scrapped that idea.
cruised through pick n pull with a tape measure. went with the 8.8 from an explorer. 3.73 gears, posi, disc brakes, big axles, easy park brake connections, offset wasn't a big deal for me. will re-bearing it later when the truck is near completion. redrilled the axles and discs for the chevy pattern and installed same sized studs as the front. would have gone with the mustang 8.8 but didn't find one that day.width is really close.
for more info on the 8.8 go to

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech...8_8-axle.shtml

there is a full article on the 8.8, what it came in, how to mod for hp, how guys take the offset and narrow the housing on one side for a centered section using stock axles etc etc. if you go to the home page there is more info

if you are doing it on the cheap, like me, then a trip to pick n pull may reveal the camaro parts you need for stock rear disc as well. maybe need a whole new axle but that won't break the bank if you have time to cruise the yard, or craigslist or local parts store classified board. grab the master cylinder as well as the park brake cables etc
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:39 PM   #7
Port&PolishMan
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

NeoJuice : First Off If Your taking Measurements like that You would have to
do Both ( Inside & Outside ) Moves with the Tape - as Your Loosing 1/16 at Least
due too End of the Tape .. Movement . Have to do 2 Measurements Add them then Divide by 2 . .

Real Choice is to be Way more Accurate - use - Better Measuring Equipment .
That's First Thing .
Second Thing on Wheels - Most Vendors of Wheels will have a Disc Brake - Fitting
Template .. for Down Loading - which usually Pattern to be Applied to Thin
Cardboard or Thin Under Layment Wood . . for Cutting out - Fitting Tool ..

It would be much more Accurate to Wire Bush then Measure & Cut pc. Wood
see which - One Fits . . Just saying as many get in Trouble Not being Accurate Enough is all .
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:26 PM   #8
NeoJuice
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Ashley View Post
I have an 80 TA rear in my 57 truck. When I got the rear the calipers, rotors, and all of the other brake parts had been lost. I bought a disk brake kit from SpeedWay Motors to get the main parts but also the small parts like fasteners and everything else needed. It is the perfect fit for my truck and centers the wheels in the fenders.
Do you remember what kit you bought?

Thank you,
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:29 PM   #9
NeoJuice
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongocanfly View Post
And the zr2 comes with the gov-loc diff and 3.73 gears..if you are willing to step outside the gm family I think the 8.8 expolerer is another popular rear
on Eds rear measurement can you run a spacer on the axle end to get your measurement down to 2.5? Wouldnt need to be but about 1/8-3/16" thick...
I was told the zr2 is a good choice. Ultimately I would like to keep the TA rear. If the weather is decent this weekend I'll check out the local pick & pull
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:31 PM   #10
NeoJuice
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by la hi View Post
I put a 95 camaro rear end with positraction, 321 gears and I have a problem. The rear end is two wide and the tires will not fit into the wheel wells. Cost about $400.
Wow that is a pretty wide rear diff. What you going to swap it out with? Get it shortened?
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:49 PM   #11
NeoJuice
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Port&PolishMan View Post
NeoJuice : First Off If Your taking Measurements like that You would have to
do Both ( Inside & Outside ) Moves with the Tape - as Your Loosing 1/16 at Least
due too End of the Tape .. Movement . Have to do 2 Measurements Add them then Divide by 2 . .

Real Choice is to be Way more Accurate - use - Better Measuring Equipment .
That's First Thing .
Second Thing on Wheels - Most Vendors of Wheels will have a Disc Brake - Fitting
Template .. for Down Loading - which usually Pattern to be Applied to Thin
Cardboard or Thin Under Layment Wood . . for Cutting out - Fitting Tool ..

It would be much more Accurate to Wire Bush then Measure & Cut pc. Wood
see which - One Fits . . Just saying as many get in Trouble Not being Accurate Enough is all .
Port&Polishman,

Thank for the information. Really what I need to do is pull the axles and get a proper measurement. As shown I'm roughly 2 5/8" plus the thickness of the calliper backing plate witch attaches to the axle flange. I'm sure it's at least 1/8" thick. I'm finding out from Ed is I can use a spacer of some sort. Or my measurements could be completely off. See around here there are not a lot of old cars left at the pick n pull, it all never stuff.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:21 AM   #12
dsraven
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

have you seen this?

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...l_measurements

maybe interesting for you to choose a donor from. there are other sites as well.
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:39 AM   #13
Russell Ashley
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoJuice View Post
Do you remember what kit you bought?

Thank you,
It was Speedway Motors kit number 91031924. Cost was $429. The hose kit also came from Speedway and it was p/n 617-8563 @$39.99. I believe there was also adapters to make the emergency brake cables connect to the arms on the calipers but can't find any p/n for those.

It wasn't cheap but my truck definitely has good brakes now.
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:35 AM   #14
NeoJuice
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven View Post
have you seen this?

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...l_measurements

maybe interesting for you to choose a donor from. there are other sites as well.
Thank you.
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:36 AM   #15
NeoJuice
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Ashley View Post
It was Speedway Motors kit number 91031924. Cost was $429. The hose kit also came from Speedway and it was p/n 617-8563 @$39.99. I believe there was also adapters to make the emergency brake cables connect to the arms on the calipers but can't find any p/n for those.

It wasn't cheap but my truck definitely has good brakes now.
I'll check it out. Thank you for the information. If I have any other questions I'll let you know. Do you have any pictures you can show me?
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:25 PM   #16
dsraven
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

maybe you can swap in an s10 rear disc onto your Camaro diff. check this out. dunno if it totally relates but talks about 2nd gen swap to s10 discs. should be able to find some s10's at pick n pull and maybe even grab the whole thing for parts. it also talks about ebrake connections and what backing plates to use for what, eg 4x4 or 2wd right and left applications. maybe worth a look. good luck.

http://nastyz28.com/threads/blazer-s10-rear-disc.94303/
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:28 PM   #17
dsraven
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

here is another Camaro site that talks about the differences in brakes over the years of Camaro builds.

http://www.geocities.ws/diels12000/RearDiscBrakes.html
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:41 PM   #18
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

this may be interesting as well. it gives some mounting flange dimensions.

http://www.littleshopmfg.com/content...%20install.pdf
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:49 PM   #19
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

here is a swap specific to 77-79 Camaro rear drum to disc brake conversion. the parts are from 77-79 Cadillac Seville. maybe interesting as well. pick n pull has an online inventory check so you can look before you waste time cruising the yard.

http://www.speedbarnracing.com/page11.html
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:11 PM   #20
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

here is a link to the Camaro guys page who talk about the different swaps for 2nd gen f body. a parts list is included. maybe usefull for somebody.


http://nastyz28.com/threads/s10-blaz...ersion.109454/
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:14 PM   #21
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

here is a superchevy write up on the topic. may be usefull to somebody as well.


http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/brakes/0509sc-rdisc/



ok, I'm done. haha. keep us posted with what the outcome is.
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:41 PM   #22
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

Thanks dsraven for all the information. I'm going to have to decide what I'm going to do. I just heard back from the local retailer about the disc brake kit. They said it wont fit because the rear axle "had" disc brakes already and has the incorrect offset/backspacing. I don't know how a stupid spacer couldn't fix that.

Option 1 - Had offer already to sell rear end for $350

Option 2 - Get rear end out of 4x4 or zr2 from pick n pull. Then figure out how much it will cost to put all new rotors/brakes/shoes/hoses on it.

Option 3 - Try and source OEM parts.

This is really stressing me out LOL.

Last edited by NeoJuice; 04-19-2017 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 04-19-2017, 04:40 PM   #23
mongocanfly
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

Keep in mind the s10 4x4 and the zr2 rearend are different widths..zr2 is 3in wider..unless you've got a pile of money and parts in the 80s t/a rearend I'd dump that in a heartbeat if offered $350
Looking at lkq it looks as if most standard s10 axles are under $300.. complete

Last edited by mongocanfly; 04-19-2017 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:01 PM   #24
dsraven
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

I would say that if you already have the axle in and driveline etc built for it then keep the axle in there, just to save some cash. if you want to upgrade to disc and have some extra cash then cruise the pick n pull for the parts. try to find a zr2 S10 because they are nearly the right track width and will have disc, posi and lower gears due to larger tires sized for that model. this may require a driveshaft mod though if the pinion is longer as well. if you can't find a zr2 then look for a disc rear from a s10 and grab all the disc brake stuff or the whole diff, take it home and mock up the caliper mounts on your diff. you may need to have some spacers made up like the superchevy article shows. notice they have a full circle adapter that bolts on to the diff flange, then some spacers to get the caliper mount out there where it needs to be. if you have the complete diff then you have oodles of time to measure etc etc so you get the dimension right. I believe the article said something about right and left side backing plates to get the ebrake in the right location so maybe do a read first so you end up with the right parts. strip off the stuff you need at tjhe wrecker and quickly assemble the diff so it is in one piece before you truck on through the till. that way you also get to check the bearings, gears and locker quickly as well. if you need parts later or wanna rebearing the unit because you can try the gear centre for a bearing kit, they are usuallyu reasonable. if it were me i would grab the master cylinder, proportioning valve, ebrake cables and foot pedal anything else brake related for the swap.
that is why I went with a ford 8.8 on my truck (originally) because the 10 bolt was weaker or not the right width, the 12 bolt was non existant in the right width and anything that didn't need a total rebuild, a ford 9" was too much cash outlay and the explorer 8.8 is at every wrecker I was at. the choice seemed easy. I gathered up the ebrake cables and equalizer connector, the pads, rotors, stabilizer bar etc had grabbed an extra brake rotor as well. when I got home I cut the extra rotor down so all I had left was the mounting flange, then had a buddy with a lathe mark out the wheel bolt pattern I needed to match the front end on the donor rotor flange, and he drilled 1/4 inch holes at the right places between the ford holes. then I simple bolted that flange onto the axle using the ford pattern like usual and tightened it down with some wheel nuts, drilled through the ford axle flange using the pilot holes in the template, removed the template part and then drilled the pilot holes with the right sized drill for some new studs to match the front size. after that the rotors need to be redrilled as well, and the ford studs taken out. no biggie. keep the template with the truck so if you have a brake issue down the road the template is there at all times. you need to cut off all the ford brackets etc and weld on some new spring pads at the right location for the old truck. spring pads can be sourced at a spring/trailer shop like Standens. just need the axle tube size. just don't weld the whole thing at once or the diffcan get "bent" from the expansion/contraction process of welding. the driveline flanges are different as well but grab what you need at the wrecker and have the driveshaft modified for the end purpose. you could look for a mustang 8.8 as well because the diff center section is in the middle, not offset.
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:17 PM   #25
Russell Ashley
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Re: What Rear End to Use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoJuice View Post
I'll check it out. Thank you for the information. If I have any other questions I'll let you know. Do you have any pictures you can show me?
Nothing up close, and truck is 250 miles away so can't take any now. Here's a couple.
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