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Old 06-27-2018, 09:19 PM   #1
WOLFMANmike
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beating my head trying to figure this out please help

ok so here is the Situation i have a 350 SBC in my 65 c10 i have replaced the cooling system with as fallows a new radiator aluminum champion 2 row for the bigger 1 inch cooling tubes .. i have replaced the water pump with a new HV water pump . i have a new electric 3000 cfm fan and a shroud . i have a new Tstat 180 deg and T stat housing i also drilled a few holes in the Tstat flange in case of Tstat failure .. i have also checked all freeze plugs and replaced with brass ones . the fan is on a auto switch set up so as soon as it hits 180 it kicks on . done a leak down test checking for bad head gaskets all is good. new fuel pump n new filters new carb a Holley 600 vacuum secondary . new plugs and new wires .. so now you know all i have done . here is my issue if its a warm day sitting in traffic or driving in town im just fine she sits at just 190 to 195 .. BUT the moment i start any kind of incline no matter how small she gets to the 210 mark not happy with that not when im running a 180 Tstat but here is where it gets really weird remember i have a fan shroud . so lets say im on the incline its a slight one but on the freeway and im not slowing down im doing 65 the whole time she gets to 210 but then as soon as im at the top of the incline and start going down still the same speed she starts dropping her temp back to 190 - 195 so please guys what am i missing here ? what is causing this and how can i fix it ? i mean if it was the fan not being enough it would over heat on any driving and if it was the radiator ? then i would think the same any driving would cause this .. and at speeds on the freeway as long as im forcing that air into it climbing or not i would think she would not over heat ? so yeah please help me figure this out
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:40 PM   #2
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

Is timing correct?
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:45 PM   #3
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

12 initial and 30 full on timing
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:49 PM   #4
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

Verify your temps with a 2nd source. Laser gauge, 2nd temp gauge, etc. Just because it has numbers doesn't mean it is accurate. Plus the gauges are not always consistent. It might be spot on at 180 and +10* at 210. I chased a 'bad tstat' for 3 tstats only to find out the sender would sometimes just read full scale hot even though the 2nd gauge I finally installed in the opposite head was reading normal.

Assuming the numbers are good, 210 is perfectly acceptable for a sbc 350. Its where they will normally run with a 195 tstat.

The temps should go up a bit on an incline, more power needed = more gas burned.

What happens on a long steep incline?

Can you hear the fan come on while driving?
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:01 PM   #5
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

Why the need for a HV water pump? Could be moving water faster than the system can cool it. Especially with a load on the engine.

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Old 06-28-2018, 12:50 AM   #6
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

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Verify your temps with a 2nd source. Laser gauge, 2nd temp gauge, etc. Just because it has numbers doesn't mean it is accurate. Plus the gauges are not always consistent. It might be spot on at 180 and +10* at 210. I chased a 'bad tstat' for 3 tstats only to find out the sender would sometimes just read full scale hot even though the 2nd gauge I finally installed in the opposite head was reading normal.

Assuming the numbers are good, 210 is perfectly acceptable for a sbc 350. Its where they will normally run with a 195 tstat.

The temps should go up a bit on an incline, more power needed = more gas burned.

What happens on a long steep incline?

Can you hear the fan come on while driving?
Fan comes on but it never shuts of when driving .. I have parked an left the key on and watched the temp guage and as soon as it cools to under 180 the fan shuts off so I'm sure it works I don't know why it never gets below 180 to shut off but that's how its always been
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Old 06-28-2018, 12:55 AM   #7
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

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Why the need for a HV water pump? Could be moving water faster than the system can cool it. Especially with a load on the engine.

Gary
It was what I changed to from a stock pump trying to chase this problem so unfortunately in other words it did it with a factory style pump as well
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Old 06-28-2018, 08:44 AM   #8
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

Add more initial timing.

I had the same issue. I'm more like 18-20 initial 36 total(mechanical), vacuum advance adjusted to just keep it from pinging.
Carb could be a little lean, check the plugs. They are not perfect out of the box.

Went back to factory AC water pump. The HV pump was doing more harm than good.
A 165 thermostat will give you more temp room to play with. Also only use one vent hole 1/8" if there is not a check valve in it already. The water flow around the tstat affects its opening.

Mine is one of the GM 290HP crate motors with eldebrock 600 carb. Added vortec heads, but heating problems started with originals.
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Old 06-28-2018, 08:45 AM   #9
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

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Originally Posted by WOLFMANmike View Post
12 initial and 30 full on timing
Is that a verified 12 initial?
Is your balancer/timing tab accurate?
What rpm do you check timing at?

Retarded timing builds heat fast especially under load.
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Old 06-28-2018, 09:57 AM   #10
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

Where did you put the temp switch for the fan?

Keep in mind that the temp rating of a tstat is the temp they start to open. Normal operating temps should run 10~20* higher.

If you have the fan switch in the tstat housing or in the radiator near the hot water inlet, would explain when your fan stays on as it will always see temps > 180 once things warm up.
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Old 06-28-2018, 12:24 PM   #11
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

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Is that a verified 12 initial?
Is your balancer/timing tab accurate?
What rpm do you check timing at?

Retarded timing builds heat fast especially under load.
Yes my buddy came over with his back to zero timing light and checked everything is dead on
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Old 06-28-2018, 12:26 PM   #12
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

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Where did you put the temp switch for the fan?

Keep in mind that the temp rating of a tstat is the temp they start to open. Normal operating temps should run 10~20* higher.

If you have the fan switch in the tstat housing or in the radiator near the hot water inlet, would explain when your fan stays on as it will always see temps > 180 once things warm up.
Hmmm ok. That makes sence the fan switch is in the top of the intake
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Old 06-28-2018, 12:35 PM   #13
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

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Add more initial timing.

I had the same issue. I'm more like 18-20 initial 36 total(mechanical), vacuum advance adjusted to just keep it from pinging.
Carb could be a little lean, check the plugs. They are not perfect out of the box.

Went back to factory AC water pump. The HV pump was doing more harm than good.
A 165 thermostat will give you more temp room to play with. Also only use one vent hole 1/8" if there is not a check valve in it already. The water flow around the tstat affects its opening.

Mine is one of the GM 290HP crate motors with eldebrock 600 carb. Added vortec heads, but heating problems started with originals.
Plugs have a great burn to them .. so carb seems right . I dont have a lean bog off the line and it runs hard through 1 to 3 pulling you into the seat as it does i used a vac gauage to adjust the carb . Ok i will try a 165 Tstat ill will also try to throw more timing at it . But im not sure this will be good as i live in CommieFornia where our gas crap and sold for a mint to us lol
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Old 06-28-2018, 01:11 PM   #14
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

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Originally Posted by WOLFMANmike View Post
Yes my buddy came over with his back to zero timing light and checked everything is dead on
That doesnít tell you your tab is accurate to tdc #1. You need to use a piston stop to verify it.
If you likely havenít adjusted the mechanical then your 12 initial with 30 all in suggests your initial is incorrect. Most distributors run near 24 degrees in mechanical.
Depending on what rpm you set your timing at then you might have an actual 2 degrees initial or less.
You didnítsay What rpm you set initial at.
BTW the crap gas we have now needs way more timing to burn right.
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Old 06-28-2018, 01:28 PM   #15
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

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That doesn’t tell you your tab is accurate to tdc #1. You need to use a piston stop to verify it.
If you likely haven’t adjusted the mechanical then your 12 initial with 30 all in suggests your initial is incorrect. Most distributors run near 24 degrees in mechanical.
Depending on what rpm you set your timing at then you might have an actual 2 degrees initial or less.
You didn’tsay What rpm you set initial at.
BTW the crap gas we have now needs way more timing to burn right.
Dont quote me on this but i think it was checked at 2000 rpms my bro with his back to zero timing light knows his stuff as far as that goes .. on the piston stop i dont have a stop tool but when i stabbed the new dist in i used my cylinder whistle im pretty sure they are the same thing mostly once i got my sound i then moved the crank by hand to the mark and then checked with a small pen screwdriver to make sure i could feel the Piston at TDC then i stabbed the dist . All marks were on the nose . Hmm i guess maybe ill try throwing in more timming to see if that helps then . I thought if i did that with the garbage they sell us here ide be looking at a pinging issue .. and i know the most deadly ping is the ones you cant hear so i was being careful

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Old 06-28-2018, 01:54 PM   #16
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

Some reading for you.

http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm/...d=76/prd76.htm
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Old 06-28-2018, 02:40 PM   #17
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

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Ok thank you geezer
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Old 06-28-2018, 03:31 PM   #18
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

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12 initial and 30 full on timing
With more timing you will have a slightly cooler running engine. Check the depth of fan in the shroud. There is a spec something like half in and half out.

A 180 will have a variance in it. Its mechanical, not perfect. Flush your cooling system, including taking out the drain plugs in the block. You will be surprised at what comes out.

Do not use tap water with your coolant. Use a recovery tank with 16 lb radiator cap. There are many other tricks also.
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Old 06-28-2018, 06:11 PM   #19
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

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With more timing you will have a slightly cooler running engine. Check the depth of fan in the shroud. There is a spec something like half in and half out.

A 180 will have a variance in it. Its mechanical, not perfect. Flush your cooling system, including taking out the drain plugs in the block. You will be surprised at what comes out.

Do not use tap water with your coolant. Use a recovery tank with 16 lb radiator cap. There are many other tricks also.
ok so i see alot of you are calling for more timing . so that is where im going to start .. so on my birthday this month i hope to be getting my new plug n play Pertronix Flame thrower III Dist not that i am saying there is anything wrong with my HEI i get that. but i want this new Dist because it has much more room being a design of the old points style for movement and ease of taking off the cap for tuneups and stuff so when i get that i will throw in more timing this is like running a MSD pro billet dist without the need for a box. i will also change to a 165 deg Tstat and i will do a engine flush .. i never run tap water i always use Distilled Water Coolant and Water Wetter .. as far as the shroud goes .. its not that kind of shroud mine is for a electric fan the its a shroud that covers the whole radiator accept where the fan goes so that the air is forced into the radiator only and the fan then pulls it into the engine bay ... but i know what you mean about half in on a stock shroud . i do run a over flow tank as well . as far as the cap its the one that came with the radiator so maybe i should check and see the psi of it . i did slip on that one till now
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Old 06-28-2018, 06:44 PM   #20
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

210* isn't boiling/overheating even w/ water (don't use just water), and more w/ real coolant. 180* is when the 'stat open, and closes. It has nothing to do with things once the temp goes over 180.
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Old 06-28-2018, 09:46 PM   #21
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

Going up an incline and the temp goes up? Where are your trans lines going? If they are in the radiator, I would add a trans cooler and take the lines out of the radiator. 210 is not hot if the engine maintains 210. A small block chevy makes its most hp at 210. My 6.2 Silverado runs 210 all the time.
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:01 PM   #22
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

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Going up an incline and the temp goes up? Where are your trans lines going? If they are in the radiator, I would add a trans cooler and take the lines out of the radiator. 210 is not hot if the engine maintains 210. A small block chevy makes its most hp at 210. My 6.2 Silverado runs 210 all the time.
i use a trans cooler B&M
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Old 06-29-2018, 01:43 AM   #23
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

Don’t make the mistake of going to the 165 thermostat. Once it opens, it is open until the engine cools back down below 165 degrees. Past 165 degrees It won’t really regulate flow and will be fully open. You are running a 180 thermostat with 3 holes drilled in it (what size?). It is just as or even more important to restrict the flow and keep it in the radiator as it is to let the coolant flow. The more holes allow more unregulated flow which makes it harder for the thermostat to keep up with.
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Old 06-29-2018, 01:55 AM   #24
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

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Donít make the mistake of going to the 165 thermostat. Once it opens, it is open until the engine cools back down below 165 degrees. Past 165 degrees It wonít really regulate flow and will be fully open. You are running a 180 thermostat with 3 holes drilled in it (what size?). It is just as or even more important to restrict the flow and keep it in the radiator as it is to let the coolant flow. The more holes allow more unregulated flow which makes it harder for the thermostat to keep up with.
There are 3 the size of the head of a ball point pen
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Old 06-29-2018, 05:32 PM   #25
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Re: beating my head trying to figure this out please help

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That doesnít tell you your tab is accurate to tdc #1. You need to use a piston stop to verify it.


This is something most people look past.
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