Building a 6.0

[mongocanfly]

And then there's always this..
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-...g-bang-theory/

[Overdriven]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

And then there's always this..
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-...g-bang-theory/

I remember reading that article in print, didn't think to go searching for it. Either way there's plenty of people out there making 700+whp reliably on the stock bottom end, stock heads and stock truck intake. It's basically become a matter of making sure you have enough injector and fuel pump to feed your combo.

That and finding a good tuner. A good tuner is especially important if running a stock computer as there's so many tables that can effect the tune. Plus from what I hear the higher you push the more unpredictable the stock ecu can get if you or your tuner aren't familiar with pushing them that far. No idea what power level that is exactly but there aren't too many 800+whp stock computer vehicles. That probably in part due to those at that power level wanting other features included like trans bump box, antilag, etc.

[NC_John]

Originally Posted by Overdriven

Either way there's plenty of people out there making 700+whp reliably on the stock bottom end, stock heads and stock truck intake.

I hear that all time time but have yet to see any. You can boost or spray a stock ls and make a ton of power but it wont stay together long. They even say in the last paragraph of the story that the longevity of their build is questionable. Any real, reliable power (500+ hp) with a lifespan of more than a season is going to require serious upgrades which requires cubic cash.

[ebaccm26]

Originally Posted by NC_John

I hear that all time time but have yet to see any.

If you've yet to see any you must not be looking. I see one everyday in my garage.

[NC_John]

Originally Posted by ebaccm26

If you've yet to see any you must not be looking. I see one everyday in my garage.

Well, it is true I don't get out much. What's your build?

[ebaccm26]

Originally Posted by NC_John

Well, it is true I don't get out much. What's your build?

Stock 5.3 truck motor with cam, valve springs, and eBay turbo. I won't get into it too much here because it's in a Ford truck

[mongocanfly]

A 5.3 is a 5.3..even if its in a fudd...haha..are you estimating hp or do you have dyno numbers?...just curious...

[NC_John]

Originally Posted by ebaccm26

Stock 5.3 truck motor with cam, valve springs, and eBay turbo. I won't get into it too much here because it's in a Ford truck

Ahhh.... it's s sloppy mechanics build. Lol. I was going to go that route too but can't find decent running engines for $300 like they seem to and it's honestly too much work putting them in and out.

I got persuaded (quite easily) into building a full road course spec (trans am series/Daytona prototype stuff) engine. It'll last forever on the street but it's costing me a fortune.
Posted via Mobile Device

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by Overdriven

Either way there's plenty of people out there making 700+whp reliably on the stock bottom end, stock heads and stock truck intake. It's basically become a matter of making sure you have enough injector and fuel pump to feed your combo.

This is going to be long...and I already have a headache.

GenIII blocks find their shortcomings at about 650whp, no matter what power adder your running..and n/a is out of the question. Depending how "stock" we're talking and whether or not things like ARP hardware, aftermarket gaskets are being used, you're gonna hit issues with things like; weak rod bolts, pushing water, valvetrain issues, and of course ring gap problems. Even if its running SD, you still are limited by the 87mm throttle inlet on the tb and intake.

GenIV stuff is still taxing stock iron blocks at around 700, but you gain the extra headroom with the L92/squareport heads and the GenIV truck intakes. Tradeoff is having he DOD/AFM stuff to deal with.

You've got 3 options to make the power, 3.5 if your separating blower types. You can either go turbo, procharger, or eaton/maggie....or nitrous.
Yes, you can make 700whp on a stock ass motor and a big shot our a couple of small kits. Guys make race b!tch motors all the time and do it...but they aren't designed to live. Assuming its got a decent exhaust, your still having to hit it with 3-400 in juice. You can totally run a stock motor and do it...but while it is semi predictable, its not a reliable "build it and leave it" motor. Its gonna eat plugs, and the actual hit from the nitrous is the most violent power adder.

If your going turbo, then ring gap is where your motor dies. If they have age on them and don't pinch, or are gapped, great...then you run into the amount of boost you need to overcome the natural restriction on the I/H/C. Its either going to lag, or have heat issues. So now you've got to go about running a larger IC, going a2w, or using n20 or meth to cool. So you might end up with a 1-run heat soak special, or a car that NEEDS to run off a bump because it takes so long to spool.

Blower, same deal with ring gap and heat..except that you have less cooling options, and the physical size and displacement limitations of the blower itself. You can cheat having a boost cam in the turbo setup, but to make the power on the blower, you're going to be at a disadvantage not having a blower cam. Again it means more boost and heat, and potentially a difficult to use powerband.

ANY of these options is going to be subject to the limitations of things like valve springs...depending on exactly how "stock" we are talking about.

Originally Posted by Overdriven

A good tuner is especially important if running a stock computer as there's so many tables that can effect the tune. Plus from what I hear the higher you push the more unpredictable the stock ecu can get if you or your tuner aren't familiar with pushing them that far. No idea what power level that is exactly but there aren't too many 800+whp stock computer vehicles. That probably in part due to those at that power level wanting other features included like trans bump box, antilag, etc.

This part...I just don't know what to do with.
Yes, a good tuner is insanely important. But it has nothing to do with running a "stock" computer. Yes there are lots of tables and I mean, EVERY table effects the tune...thats what a tune is.
As with my other comments, this is slightly dependent on exactly which version we discuss. There is nothing unpredictable about any of the stock computers, the OE hardware is incredibly stable. The OEM software is very conservative, but also very stable. Additionally, every aftermarket OS we've ever used versions of (including pre-release Alphas and Beta's we get from HP Tuners) have been virtually flawless in terms of actual stability.

And...there are all sorts of 800+hp factory computer vehicles...regardless of generation. There are cars running fully built motors, crazy boost, and OEM hardware with good tuning. GenIII has the fewest features but has no problem supporting the power levels. GenIV gained resolution and function, allowing for more delicate control. GenV stuff has turbo/supercharger tables built in, even if you don't need them for the sake of versatility, and is an INCREDIBLY robust setup on E92A ecms.

The only time aftermarket ECM systems are worth discussing is when you start running combo's that defy the control logic on the factory ECM. The huge cubic inch aftermarket block LS motors flow so much air that factory ECM's just don't have the range to account for those numbers, or don't have a compatible sensor and table to accurately measure it. A boosted car running over 3bar would also be something that creates issues for stock ECM's, many of which hit limits at that point in their MAP(s). Or for example a setup that needed direct ECM control of more than 8 injectors (fully independent) or a mix of fuel systems on one control system. At that point your talking about full race control and monitoring systems, which don't even work like factory ECMs and require constant logging and tweaking to function.