Options for new front leaf springs?

[61Chevy454]

Well, I realized on my 1961 Chevy C20 Apache 4X4 (Converted to 4WD), there are lift blocks in the front. Obviously, I'm not gonna drive it till it's fixed. What are my options for buying new springs? How can I even tell if this is the original frame? If it's not, it would make my life way easier. If it is the original, what do I do?

[61Chevy454]

OK, so I did some more research. The rear and the front both have GM 10 bolts, probably 8.5"? The first year of the GM 10 bolt was 1979.

The first year of the 700R4 was 1982

The first year of the 454 was 1970 I think.

Is it safe to assume I have a 1982+ frame and leaf springs for a 1982-1986/87 4WD 2500 will fit!

[padresag]

this is what happens with a lot of these conversions; you don't know what you have. you will have to go by measurement of the springs plus the size of the pins. give us a picture.
ron

[61Chevy454]

Originally Posted by padresag

this is what happens with a lot of these conversions; you don't know what you have. you will have to go by measurement of the springs plus the size of the pins. give us a picture.
ron

Here is the rear leaf spring. I couldn't get a pic of the front spring pins.


Here is the front.

[franken]

Block lifts are generally considered less good and in front considered bad/dangerous. The front looks to me like a 71 or newer D44 w/ open knuckles and disk brakes, as well as the bowed up leaf springs.
Is it open knuckles, disk brakes, etc? You can snap a pic of the diff cover and compare w/ pics on the internet to figure out what it is.

My guess is the rear is stock w/ block lift and helper springs. Are the shocks staggered or on the same side? Id use the technique above to figure out what the rear diff is.

Pretty sure you can look at the body mounts to tell if the frame was swapped.

For spring specs, start w/ leaf width, length (centers), and diameter of bushings.

[61Chevy454]

Originally Posted by franken

Block lifts are generally considered less good and in front considered bad/dangerous. The front looks to me like a 71 or newer D44 w/ open knuckles and disk brakes, as well as the bowed up leaf springs.
Is it open knuckles, disk brakes, etc? You can snap a pic of the diff cover and compare w/ pics on the internet to figure out what it is.

My guess is the rear is stock w/ block lift and helper springs. Are the shocks staggered or on the same side? Id use the technique above to figure out what the rear diff is.

Pretty sure you can look at the body mounts to tell if the frame was swapped.

For spring specs, start w/ leaf width, length (centers), and diameter of bushings.

Here is a pic of the front pumpkin.
I probably misidentified as a GM 10 Bolt.

The rear has not only a lift block, but also a large piece of metal that looks like it came off a railroad tie or something.

The rear shocks are both on the same side of the axle, turned inward at the top where they mount to the frame.

[padresag]

that r/road track thing is standard in the 60-66 4 x 4 as a lift9spacer). you just need better springs and get rid of that front block.
a spring shop can put together a decent spring package for you. eliminate the extra spacers on the rear too. keep the r/road track looking one and get rid of the other 2 per side. spring shop can make them so they are right
ron

[61Chevy454]

Originally Posted by padresag

that r/road track thing is standard in the 60-66 4 x 4 as a lift9spacer). you just need better springs and get rid of that front block.
a spring shop can put together a decent spring package for you. eliminate the extra spacers on the rear too. keep the r/road track looking one and get rid of the other 2 per side. spring shop can make them so they are right
ron

Can I keep the rear spacers and then buy a lift spring for the front? As in a spring that will lift it as much as the lift block would but take the front lift block out. Is the truck lifted? Is it the stock frame. I'm so confused.

[padresag]

look thru this link. Jon converted this one over to 4 x 4 using the orig frame and later springs. you can see how his springs are sitting. no blocks in the frt and just the rear stock 4 x 4 (60-66) riser block in the rear. those 3 spacers on the rear are waiting for something to happen
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=448681
ron

[61Chevy454]

Originally Posted by padresag

look thru this link. Jon converted this one over to 4 x 4 using the orig frame and later springs. you can see how his springs are sitting. no blocks in the frt and just the rear stock 4 x 4 (60-66) riser block in the rear. those 3 spacers on the rear are waiting for something to happen
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=448681
ron

I'm on my phone and since there's no app, I can't actually read the whole thing easily... So he used his original frame and converted it to 4WD? I could remove the two spacers and keep the 60-66 riser block? The block isn't welded at all, correct. It's just kind of kept there, being compressed by the ubolts.

I messaged him asking him if he could. Maybe come take a look at it and help me figure it all out since he's in Missoula.

[padresag]

the block isn't welded. now you see on your rear spring there is a centre bolt in it. usually that aligns with the spring perch on the axle. that keeps everything from slipping out of place. that orig rear spacer block has allowances for that. now you have those 2 other spacer blocks and a scrap of spring for another spacer. wonder if they also have receptacles for alignment plus those long ubolts. that is where the problems will come from.
Jon should be able to advise you
ron

[61Chevy454]

Originally Posted by padresag

the block isn't welded. now you see on your rear spring there is a centre bolt in it. usually that aligns with the spring perch on the axle. that keeps everything from slipping out of place. that orig rear spacer block has allowances for that. now you have those 2 other spacer blocks and a scrap of spring for another spacer. wonder if they also have receptacles for alignment plus those long ubolts. that is where the problems will come from.
Jon should be able to advise you
ron

Sorry, I'm kind of a newb to all this stuff! I know that front lift blocks are illegal in most states and are dangerous, so I'm definitely going to replace my front springs to match the rears. I will most like replace the rears also so I don't have to worry about the lift blocks and the other spaces. I do wish it was a newer frame as I could just replace the leaf springs with the ones meant for the newer frame.

Let's hope he can! It would be super awesome.

Thank you for your help! I guess having the original frame if I do makes the thing more valuable. I'm gonna run the vin and see if it's an original 4X4 truck.

[61Chevy454]

Originally Posted by 61Chevy454

Sorry, I'm kind of a newb to all this stuff! I know that front lift blocks are illegal in most states and are dangerous, so I'm definitely going to replace my front springs to match the rears. I will most like replace the rears also so I don't have to worry about the lift blocks and the other spaces. I do wish it was a newer frame as I could just replace the leaf springs with the ones meant for the newer frame.

Let's hope he can! It would be super awesome.

Thank you for your help! I guess having the original frame if I do makes the thing more valuable. I'm gonna run the vin and see if it's an original 4X4 truck.

VIN says it came from the factory as a K25.

[padresag]

don't know what year frame that you have. looks like you have the 68-72 4 x 4 under engine cross member in there. later frames are a give away at the front bumper mounting and cab mounts if you know what the 63-66 looks like the front and rear spring hangers are different to and usually whether the spring hangers are bolted or riveted, also if it is a later frame 117.5" vs a 115" w/base(swb but long would present the same type of problem, they won't have altered the frame to shorten it and the wheels will not be centred properly
ron

[61Chevy454]

It has to be a Corp 10 bolt 6-lug...the case doesn't match the Dana 44 case.




The top photo is a Corp 10 bolt 6 lug out of an 82 3/4 Suburban with the same drivetrain as what's in mine now.

[Captainfab]

From what I can see this is what I think you have. The frame and rear springs are original. If the rear differential is a 10 bolt, it is not original and likely the mater to the front. The front differential is a '79-'91 Corporate 10 bolt. The front springs are likely from the same year and application as the front differential. However the front spring hangers appear to be original but I don't know how the later model springs are mounted to them. The original springs and the '79-'91 springs have a completely different spring pin and bushing assembly. Hopefully I am wrong about the spring hanger. What you likely need are 4" lift springs for a '73-'87 K10.

[61Chevy454]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

From what I can see this is what I think you have. The frame and rear springs are original. If the rear differential is a 10 bolt, it is not original and likely the mater to the front. The front differential is a '79-'91 Corporate 10 bolt. The front springs are likely from the same year and application as the front differential. However the front spring hangers appear to be original but I don't know how the later model springs are mounted to them. The original springs and the '79-'91 springs have a completely different spring pin and bushing assembly. Hopefully I am wrong about the spring hanger. What you likely need are 4" lift springs for a '73-'87 K10.

Would taking more photos of the spring hangers in the front and back help determine which to buy? I refuse to drive the thing with front lift blocks.

[andyh1956]

It looks like he has a later model set of front shackle brackets that fit in the middle of the frame instead of cast brackets that mount under the frame. He also has negative arch front springs.
Look at your cab mounts & see if they have been bolted / welded to the frame. If the frame is later the mounts would have to have been changed. Also the frame will be indented for the later steering boxes.
Maybe he has a late model front welded to an early model rear? I've seen stranger...

[61Chevy454]

Originally Posted by andyh1956

It looks like he has a later model set of front shackle brackets that fit in the middle of the frame instead of cast brackets that mount under the frame. He also has negative arch front springs.
Look at your cab mounts & see if they have been bolted / welded to the frame. If the frame is later the mounts would have to have been changed. Also the frame will be indented for the later steering boxes.

Its wet and dark outside at the moment, so I will check on the cab mounts tomorrow.

I know that the steering Column on my truck leaves the side of the cab and goes to the power steering box that is mounted on the outer part of the driver side frame rail, all easily seen from the driver front fender.

Hopefully this isn't a stupid question. I'm sorry if it is, I just need to know so I can fix the lift block and get a proper set of springs. Also one, of the shocks is broken, and I can't get the correct one without knowing what frame I have...

[padresag]

Originally Posted by andyh1956

It looks like he has a later model set of front shackle brackets that fit in the middle of the frame instead of cast brackets that mount under the frame. He also has negative arch front springs.
Look at your cab mounts & see if they have been bolted / welded to the frame. If the frame is later the mounts would have to have been changed. Also the frame will be indented for the later steering boxes.
Maybe he has a late model front welded to an early model rear? I've seen stranger...

do mean the frt spring mount that is riveted to the frame which takes a spring pin. the shackle is at the back of the front spring and the top pin goes through the frame.
the orig frt spring is 2 1/2" wide 64-66 while the later ones are 3" wide which won't fit the 64 spring hanger. the front spring hanger in the pic appears to be riveted to the frame.
the rear springs appear to be narrower than the front
ron

[61Chevy454]

Originally Posted by padresag

do mean the frt spring mount that is riveted to the frame which takes a spring pin. the shackle is at the back of the front spring and the top pin goes through the frame.
the orig frt spring is 2 1/2" wide 64-66 while the later ones are 3" wide which won't fit the 64 spring hanger. the front spring hanger in the pic appears to be riveted to the frame.
the rear springs appear to be narrower than the front
ron

This is the front, driver side spring mount.

[padresag]

that is the front shackle
that cab mount bracket of what I can see looks different too
ron

[61Chevy454]

Originally Posted by padresag

that is the front shackle
that cab mount bracket of what I can see looks different too
ron

I'll take more pictures of that general vicinity in the morning.

[61Chevy454]

Originally Posted by 61Chevy454

I'll take more pictures of that general vicinity in the morning.

Here are pictures of the front cab mount, the steering box location, and the leaf spring hangers on both sides.

[padresag]

appears to be a later frame.
ron