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Old 02-20-2013, 10:57 PM   #1
danw210
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Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

OK, since I am striking out on finding a way to add disc brakes to the closed knuckle, I am seeking an open knuckle. I have a line on a mid 70's set-up from a Chevy, from the looks of them it is a pretty easy swap. The shock mounts and spring perches look like they are where they need to be. I'm sure that there are plenty of you who have done this swap. I am looking for knowledge here, what do I need to know about this swap? Any info would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:27 PM   #2
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

A 72 K/10 dana 44 will swap right in place, then of course you need the master cylinder,prop valve and booster.

I have a disc brake dana 44 in my shop and am going to do this swap on mine this summer.
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:58 AM   #3
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

http://www.blackbirdscustomtrucks.co....html#balldisc
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:51 AM   #4
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

Any chevy solid axle will work, the corp10 bolt (79 and up?) has a slightly offset pumpkin but still no issue. The issue is the steering linkage, brake booster, prop valve additions that have to be done. Not a big issue just more to consider. My 68 has a corp10 bolt now, nothing else connected though. Don't forget to match gear ratios with your rear
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:27 AM   #5
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

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Any chevy solid axle will work, the corp10 bolt (79 and up?) has a slightly offset pumpkin but still no issue. The issue is the steering linkage, brake booster, prop valve additions that have to be done. Not a big issue just more to consider. My 68 has a corp10 bolt now, nothing else connected though. Don't forget to match gear ratios with your rear
I have all the disc brake stuff and a new disc/disc master cylinder and booster with the prop valve (already set up rear diff with discs). What is the issue with the steering?
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:37 AM   #6
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

Like msgross said any GM solid front axle up till 87 will bolt right in, just make sure it matches the rears ratio. As far as steering it will be a bolt in as well as long as you have the 3 piece draglink ( a short tire rod, a long tie rod and a sleeve), all 3 are available at any auto parts store. I always fab up new front brake lines when I do this swap, the frame fitting for the brake hose on drum brake trucks exits the frame farther back than on disc brakes, this makes for a longer than stock brake hose to be used. Instead I run the new lines with the exit in the frame farther up the frame almost inline with the caliper, I've also used the 73 up frame bracket for the line fitting, this moves the fitting out away from the frame and even closer to the caliper about 1.5" and works really well on lifted trucks plus has the correct hole for the caliper style brake hose you will need.
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:24 PM   #7
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

The steering issues were as stated, your original truck was manual steering with a solid drage link to the knuckle. You could also think of a power steering upgrade at the same time. The frame probably isn't "dimpled" for a power steering box but you can get adapter plates for that.
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:34 PM   #8
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

Thanks guys! So the steering arm on the left is a simple swap from the old diff as well? MSGROSS - I did upgrade the power steering a while back while I was driving it. Now it has become a complete restoration. The frame was dimpled so we are "all good" there. I think I used the same drag link from the manual set-up but changed out the pitman arm.
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:26 PM   #9
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

probably just need a new drag link then... the steering arms on the axles are different.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:51 AM   #10
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

Hey guys, one more question - Are the axles the same on both the open and closed knuckle?
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:41 PM   #11
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

you mean the internal axle shafts? No idea since I never cracked mine open...
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:54 PM   #12
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

Axle shafts are totally different, about the only parts that will interchange is ring and pinion, carrier.
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Old 02-23-2013, 11:17 AM   #13
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

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Axle shafts are totally different, about the only parts that will interchange is ring and pinion, carrier.
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Ah....thanks BLAZERMAN!
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Old 02-23-2013, 11:31 AM   #14
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

I thought that you had to get a housing that has a similar gear ratio, 3.73 and lower or 4.09 and higher. Any truth to that?
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Old 02-23-2013, 01:42 PM   #15
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

Hello, Great Build! On your disc set up it looks as though your caliper brackets are bent right there on the edge of the ear, it’s been awhile since I’ve run the D52 brake set up, but this was a common issue, they get bent when moving the axle around without the calipers on them… maybe, and I don’t think your issue is your closed knuckle housing, because imo the spindle out is where your difference is, from the pic you have the spindle on first and then the caliper bracket and this is correct, so if the brackets are not bent then it would be somewhere in the hub/rotor spindle area, the spindle that you are using is from the disc set up correct? Just something to think about… Again Great build!
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:14 PM   #16
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

Great info guys!
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:34 PM   #17
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

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Hello, Great Build! On your disc set up it looks as though your caliper brackets are bent right there on the edge of the ear, it’s been awhile since I’ve run the D52 brake set up, but this was a common issue, they get bent when moving the axle around without the calipers on them… maybe, and I don’t think your issue is your closed knuckle housing, because imo the spindle out is where your difference is, from the pic you have the spindle on first and then the caliper bracket and this is correct, so if the brackets are not bent then it would be somewhere in the hub/rotor spindle area, the spindle that you are using is from the disc set up correct? Just something to think about… Again Great build!
Spicer - I looked into your suggestions. The caliper mounting plates are as they should be. The picture does make you wonder though. The spindle however, is the issue. I was using the 69 spindles. I still have the 72 spindles laying around so I messed with them today. They push the caliper out 3/8 of an inch and that is just what it needs. But...........the 69 spindles have a brass bushing in them allowing the fat part of the axle tofit. The 72 spindles have what looks like some sort of bearing in the place where the brass bushing on the 69 is. The bearing reduces the diameter of the opening and the axle doesn't fit.
My latest question - does that bearing thing-a-ma-bobber come out? And if so, can the spindle have a bushing pressed in to make it like the 69 spindle?

That is the only case where I think that the closed knuckle will work. Axles are different so that's not an option. The picture with the caliper mounted is with the 72 spindle, on a 72 hub with no axle shaft in the housing.
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:24 AM   #18
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

It sounds like you're on a good track here. I hope you can get this figured out.

That bearing in the '72 spindle will come out. And if you can find, or make, or have made a bushing the right size it will press in just fine.

I don't know the difference between the closed vs open axle shafts, but would it be possible to mate the closed('69) inner shaft with the open('72) stub shaft? (according to the rockauto catalog they use the same u-joint, but that may be wrong.) Then you could leave the needle bearing in the '72 spindle and have the matching stub shaft with it.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:31 AM   #19
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

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It sounds like you're on a good track here. I hope you can get this figured out.

That bearing in the '72 spindle will come out. And if you can find, or make, or have made a bushing the right size it will press in just fine.

I don't know the difference between the closed vs open axle shafts, but would it be possible to mate the closed('69) inner shaft with the open('72) stub shaft? (according to the rockauto catalog they use the same u-joint, but that may be wrong.) Then you could leave the needle bearing in the '72 spindle and have the matching stub shaft with it.
According to the Dana/Spicer axle chart that I found, the axles take a different u-joint. I have a standard duty Dana44. I am going to see if the local 4x4 shop in town can help with the bushings in the spindles.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:59 PM   #20
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

Well I took the spindles to the 4x4 shop in town and he suggests that I take the axles to a machine shop and have them turned down to fit the 72 spindles. The amount of material to be cut is probably a few hundredths of an inch. Does anyone see a problem with this approach?
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:42 PM   #21
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

I guess it would depend upon how much "interference" there is, and how much would need to be removed?
Personally, I would rather see the bushing turned (enlarged) if there is enough material there to do it. Modifying something like the axle makes it harder to get a replacement if you would happen to break one. You are more likely to need a new axle someday than the bushing.
I am always careful about which part gets modified when multiple parts need to fit together.
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:51 PM   #22
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

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I would rather see the bushing turned (enlarged) if there is enough material there to do it.
I agree with longhair on this. Also the bushing should be faster and cheaper to have machined since brass(or bronze or whatever) is softer than the axle. I would think the machinist should be able to mount up the whole spindle and bore out the bushing right there in it.

You're so close, man.
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:44 AM   #23
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

Did you ever get these bushings made for your spindles or did you end up turning the axles down?

I have a 1962 GMC K1000 that had disk brakes installed by the previous owner. The install had some issues, namely the bearing/bushing issue you're having to deal with.

I got in touch with R&P 4WD in Oregon and they got me squared away. What I ended up doing is aquiring a second set of outer axle stubs to have modified to fit the later model bearing spindle. It was explained to me that only a very minimal amount had to be removed and the hardening process they due on that part of the axle stub extends quite a bit deeper than what was removed so no issues should be found.

I plan on going back to drum brakes to make the truck original, but turning the axle stubs has been done.

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Old 04-07-2013, 11:57 AM   #24
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions

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Well I took the spindles to the 4x4 shop in town and he suggests that I take the axles to a machine shop and have them turned down to fit the 72 spindles. The amount of material to be cut is probably a few hundredths of an inch. Does anyone see a problem with this approach?
danw210,

Here is what I ended up doing for mine. Like I said, I located an extra pair of outer stubs for a closed knuckle front driving axle, then sent those off to a machine shop to have them turned down a hair in order to fit the later model spindle with bearing rather than the bronze bushing.

I will likely end making the truck original and reinstalling drum brakes, but I had this done just in case I couldn't find parts or decided to keep the disks. As you can see, the spindle bearing fits just fine on the stub after work has been done on it. I hope this helps.

The other picture shows what i found when I originally took mine apart. The outer axle stub was jammed into the bearing and while it would spin/rotate just fine, the stub was actuall stuck within the spindle bearing and had jammed the bearing pretty far into the spindle when the previous mechanic made the swap.

Jonathon
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