47-55.1 Converting stomp starter to push button

[51 3600]

Does anyone have any pics/diagrams/instructions/howto/parts list showing how to use the stomp starter button(?) as a push button starter? Want the vintage look but a more modern push button function. Will still have a key switch on the dash. I know it's been done, even someone on this forum I think, but I can't find info on it. Thanks in advance for the help.

[dsraven]

uh, you might have to clarify exactly what you want.
-getting rid of the stomp starter unit itself, the actual starter on the engine, completely. replace it with a more modern solenoid operated starter but still have the same original engine and trans etc. you want to use the original stomp mechanism to operate the new electric starter switch instead of having a push button on the dash or a key operated starter function to energize the new starter on the old engine.
-you have a newer engine and you don't have a starter with the mechanics to be operated by a stomp starter. you do, however, like the old fashioned foot pedal starter look so you want to use that linkage to operate an electric starter switch somehow
-some other scenario which will need to be explained better?
-some pics might help to let us know exactly what you have there without looking through a build thread or searching somehow.

maybe some answers here?
https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads...77706&page=all

[mongocanfly]

Youll need this..
http://www.partdeal.com/wiring-elect...xoCXMoQAvD_BwE
I assume it's for the LS..
You use the key switch to supply power to the electronics..the foot starter switch needs 12v supply and then on to the starter solenoid

[51 3600]

Ok, let me see if I can better describe what I want to do.
As shown in my sig my truck is an LS swap so I'm dealing with a modern starter not the original style with mechanical linkage between the stomp switch and the starter.
I kind of assumed the switch mongo described is what I need. But my question is how do I combine that switch with the old stomp switch (the rod with the mushroom top and the flexible rubber cone) so the result is a starter switch that looks old style and depresses but works with the momentary type switch.
Hoping someone has done this before and can describe/show how they linked the two together. Some kinda bracketry holding the momentary switch, something stabilizing the stomper, attaching the stomper to the momentary, etc.
Hope that clarifies it. I'll never be a tech writer for sure.

[mr48chev]

Foot starter switch for a tractor. It looks like there should be a tractor supply store in your town. This switch should do it if it clears the engine. A go into the store and look at it would indicate that.
You won't need real heavy cables like it is set up for. They were on a lot of 50's tractors.

There are cheaper ones but Cole Hersee has a great reputation and you should be able to find it locally or get an oem switch from a tractor dealer. https://www.elecdirect.com/cole-hers...s&ppc_keyword=


You just wire it hot wire to the switch, wire from the other side to the S pole on the starter.

A bit of artful fabricating with a short piece of steel tubing that slips over the top of the switch with a set screw should let you use the top part of the stomp button for an authentic look.

[dsraven]

some power tailgate motors use a switch like that as well, commercial truck places may have one. probably just a cole hersey switch though.

[mr48chev]

Tractor supply where you live has a cheap one about 7 bucks but the feed back wasn't great. The guys giving feedback had it hooked in the battery cable to the starter though. They had the full amp draw from the starter going though them same as a ford solenoid on the fenderwell would May not be an issue with just kicking in the solenoid.

[BlouDon]

Suggestion:

Retain the stomp starter for starting for oddity/novelty/aesthetics?

In simple terms:
From 12V switched ignition -> stomp switch -> solenoid activation terminal.

(It would be prudent to to also have the neutral safety switch in this circuit)

The starter's main current will come directly from the battery to the large terminal on the starter solenoid. Only the solenoid activation current will come via the stomp switch to the smaller solenoid activation terminal.

[mongocanfly]

i don't see why you couldn't mount the switch I showed above somewhere around the starter ..a simple linkage or similar would mash the button when you push the stomp start...

[51 3600]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

A bit of artful fabricating with a short piece of steel tubing that slips over the top of the switch with a set screw should let you use the top part of the stomp button for an authentic look.

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

i don't see why you couldn't mount the switch I showed above somewhere around the starter ..a simple linkage or similar would mash the button when you push the stomp start...

These are the two possible solutions I've imagined. Wondering if anyone here has done this. Trying to keep travel of the stomp switch similar to original which might be a little more involved with a direct link to floor switch. In other words, push on stomp directly pushes on floor switch.

Linkage might be better answer. Easier to have long travel stomp linked to short travel floor switch. (BTW, all original stomp linkage is gone.)

Don't have the truck close by at the moment so unable to answer the question whether there's space for the stomp switch with the LS and 4L60e in place. I get ahead of myself sometimes....a lot.

Lot of helpful info here, thank you. Any creative input related to the two above solutions still welcome.

[dsraven]

mechanical linkage bolted to firewall/floor from under side with bellcrank and pushrod (or direct, adjustable, contact) to remote mounted switch, possibly under floor? for more stroke on the pedal have a longer bellcrank (or adjustable bellcrank with different holes for the pushrod or simply an adjustable contact bolt on the bellcrank). include a return spring if the switch is unable to overcome the friction of a floor grommet on the pedal etc.
think old school. fuse the circuit. wire into the ign so it only gets power with the key on (less hazard of accidental operation with somebody under the hood). wire into neutral safety switch and/or clutch pedal if equipped.

[1project2many]

Trying to keep travel of the stomp switch similar to original which might be a little more involved with a direct link to floor switch. In other words, push on stomp directly pushes on floor switch.

Keeping a foot switch for original appearance is a great idea. From time to time folks ask about doing this after an engine swap and generally the same switches are suggested. The tractor starter switch is fairly durable. Many school buses use them to activate warning lights so the driver does not have to remove hands from the wheel. The tractor starter switch looks just like the dimmer switch and mounts on the floor inside the cab.

I would weld a post roughly the same diameter as the button on the switch to the bottom of the original starter pedal then use a clamp similar to a tie-rod clamp or bicycle seat clamp to attach the original button to the starter switch.

The "through the floor" switches are used on school buses to start the warning lights. Look at LK3112 and 3113 on this page for examples: http://www.busparts.com/assets/image...hes-thumbn.jpg

[mr48chev]

There wouldn't be any linkage, the button would fasten to the floor though the same hole that the original pedal went though. A hot wire would hook to one side and a wire (same as the purple wire in a key switch setup) would run from the foot switch to the starter solenoid. The big issue is if you have room in that spot for the switch to stick out on the other side of the firewall. Some engine swaps take up all the room in that area. The Tractor Supply one is about 7.95 and you could stick it though the hole upside down from the inside to mark the spots to drill the holes to mount it. About a 15 minute job start to finish if you have someone who can hold it while you put the screws in.

[51 3600]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

There wouldn't be any linkage, the button would fasten to the floor though the same hole that the original pedal went though. A hot wire would hook to one side and a wire (same as the purple wire in a key switch setup) would run from the foot switch to the starter solenoid. The big issue is if you have room in that spot for the switch to stick out on the other side of the firewall. Some engine swaps take up all the room in that area. The Tractor Supply one is about 7.95 and you could stick it though the hole upside down from the inside to mark the spots to drill the holes to mount it. About a 15 minute job start to finish if you have someone who can hold it while you put the screws in.

If I read you correctly you're not incorporating the original stomp starter button which is what I'm trying to do. Old tech activates new (sorta) tech.

[1project2many]

Originally Posted by 51 3600

If I read you correctly you're not incorporating the original stomp starter button which is what I'm trying to do. Old tech activates new (sorta) tech.

Yes, we're suggesting getting rid of the linkage. I'm curious about why you're keeping it? Foot starters were invented before the electric solenoid. After the solenoid was invented foot starters were used to keep vehicle cost down. Are you interested in replacing the solenoid with mechanical linkage? Now that would be a neat trick!

[mr48chev]

AHHHHHH, this is like trying to tell a blooming fence post how to do something and do it right.

The original switch and linkage won't work because the original switch was on top of the starter. I blooming give up as you can't lead someone to water and make them drink if they are clueless on how to drink.

Very simply there is no way that linkage will bolt up to the bellhousing bolts on the LS 3 if this is indeed the truck you are working on.

Second there is no way to hook the original switch up with the linkage if you could bolt the linkage to the back of the block.

Third, there is most likely no room to fit the linkage because the right head is right were the linkage worked the original switch.

Four as I stated before there may not be room below the hole was for the bottom part of the tractor foot switch now but that switch is the way you have it appear inside that you still have a foot starter and the mouthbreathers who see it won't know the difference.

[mongocanfly]

Not going to try and start a arguement..
But yes it can be made to work...anybody with a little bit of fab work can make this work..
The stomp pedal goes thru the floorboard..
It doesnt have to bolt to the engine, or the trans ...
All you need is the pedal itself...a simple pivot point with a lever to push the switch I showed above..
Yall making it sound harder than it needs to be...
Can be bolted to the toeboard...
Heres a quick sketch...I would put a hard stop on it to keep from bottoming out the switch..all it needs to do is make contact..
But I will agree..with the LS and trans and exhaust, it would be the last thing I'd do after the drivetrain is installed..room may be very limited....my 55-1st has this switch mounted on the floorboard, looks like a dimmer switch just to the right of the gas pedal

[51 3600]

Originally Posted by 1project2many

Yes, we're suggesting getting rid of the linkage. I'm curious about why you're keeping it? Foot starters were invented before the electric solenoid. After the solenoid was invented foot starters were used to keep vehicle cost down. Are you interested in replacing the solenoid with mechanical linkage? Now that would be a neat trick!

Why am I keeping it? That's like asking why do I want to drive a 70 year old truck? Cuz I want to!

I guess I still haven't made myself clear. I want to keep the portion of the stomp starter that is visible inside the cab. That's all that's left of the stomp starter assembly. All the original linkage is gone, not trying to use it. I want to operate the tractor floor switch with the stomp starter rod, you know the metal rod with the meat tenderizer on top and the cone rubber cover. When I say linkage I mean any mechanical method I might have to create to get pushing on the stomp button to push on the tractor switch.

I did have opportunity yesterday to look at my truck (being worked on at a garage) and there isn't much room between the cab toe board where the stomper should mount and the trans. Only had a short time to look so I'm going to have to study whether this can be done or not spacewise.

Maybe I have too much time on my hands but I like creating unique touches that cause a second look.

[51 3600]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

Not going to try and start a arguement..
But yes it can be made to work...anybody with a little bit of fab work can make this work..
The stomp pedal goes thru the floorboard..
It doesnt have to bolt to the engine, or the trans ...
All you need is the pedal itself...a simple pivot point with a lever to push the switch I showed above..
Yall making it sound harder than it needs to be...
Can be bolted to the toeboard...
Heres a quick sketch...I would put a hard stop on it to keep from bottoming out the switch..all it needs to do is make contact..
But I will agree..with the LS and trans and exhaust, it would be the last thing I'd do after the drivetrain is installed..room may be very limited....my 551st has this switch mounted on the floorboard, looks like a dimmer switch just to the right of the gas pedal

BINGO! Thank you Mongo, just what I was trying to get across. I started this thread because I thought someone might have already done this and would save me some time or have a better thought out plan than I. Love this site.

[mongocanfly]

Dont think your alone...I'd already considered this on mine but was gonna wait the the LS3/TR6060 was installed before doing this or similar...there are a few other ways to accomplish this same idea...
Like I said space is at a minimum...so I'd put that on the backburner and wait...then see how much room there is

[mr48chev]

You don't need a rod, you just need the cap off the stomp starter pedal fastened to a piece of tubing that slips over the tractor switch. The switch sticks up about an inch and a half above the floor. Just about the same as the rod from the lever stuck though the floor.

The issue is the space between the toe board and the bellhousing/back of the engine at that spot. Most engine swaps end up with very tight clearances in that area.

The end of the rod has 5/16 Sae threads and a 5/16 sae X 1/2 inch cap screw welded to a cap made of mild steel tubing that was also drilled and tapped for a set screw per the drawing would keep it on top of the switch.

[1project2many]

Why am I keeping it? That's like asking why do I want to drive a 70 year old truck? Cuz I want to!

You don't have to be that way. It's a valid question and it helps design a solution and possibly helps you clarify what you are trying to accomplish.

I guess I still haven't made myself clear. I want to keep the portion of the stomp starter that is visible inside the cab.

This is good. This is progress. You were talking about using the original linkage. A "linkage" generally includes multiple components including rods, pins, levers, hinges, bellcranks, etc. Some people offering suggestions, myself included, are being led to think you want to keep some or all of the original pieces that activated the starter drive gear. But the truth is you don't want a linkage. You want a method to start the truck which appears to be the original foot starter.

There are a few reasons I (and likely Mr.48) are suggesting you dump the "idea" of a linkage. See below (apologies in advance Mongo):

All you need is the pedal itself...a simple pivot point with a lever to push the switch I showed above..
Yall making it sound harder than it needs to be...
Can be bolted to the toeboard...
Heres a quick sketch...I would put a hard stop on it to keep from bottoming out the switch..all it needs to do is make contact..

The hard stop is a decent idea. It's relatively simple and keeps the driver from accidentally damaging the switch. But what keeps the lever from bouncing off the switch and unintentionally activating it if you hit a speedbump or pothole? You should use a return spring. Oh, and what keeps the rod from slapping against the cab and creating unwanted noise? Add a rubber or foam stop at the top of the pedal travel. And if you're adding insulation inside the cab or working to keep engine heat out of the cab (the LS engine will create more heat than the old six) then you want a seal. But the old starter rod didn't pivot like the new design so you need a floor seal that will work in multiple directions. (I seem to be in an endless search for a good seal for the stomp starter in my original '36 Plymouth.) And as mentioned there may not be enough room for all of that under the cab...

I'm not trying to pick apart the idea. I'm only trying to show that a simple initial idea doesn't always pick up the details that might become apparent after a vehicle is placed in use.

When I say linkage I mean any mechanical method I might have to create to get pushing on the stomp button to push on the tractor switch.

See Mr. 48's drawing above. That is the simplest method I can think of to push on the tractor switch. It requires little fabrication and is fairly compact.

Here's a completed version of the simple design Mr. 48 and I are suggesting:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=538528



IMO if you must have something like Mongo's design I'd place it inside the cab. Select a durable push button switch to mount on the toeboard, preferably outside the cab. Cut the old rod to length so it extends into the cab at one end and rests on the switch at the other. Weld a rod at 90 degrees to the original rod so you have a piece that resembles a hammer. Build a pivot at the other end of the rod which can be placed out of sight behind the dash. Adjust as necessary and use a high density foam block under the pedal to prevent the rod from contacting the switch until the driver applies pressure.

[mongocanfly]

No apologies needed...like I said (quick sketch)....I was walking out the door, headed for town when I quick drawed it..
It would obviously need a return spring and some other knickknacks and doodads...was not meant to be used as a final design..but it could be made to work very easily..

I had a few other ideas kicking around I my head when I said ( a few other ways to accomplish this same idea)... one being something similar to what 48 drew and had also thought about what 48 has drawn as a option, and would probably be the better choice due to the very limtited space he'll have under the floorboard
...
Like I also said I've had similar ideas in my head for mine when I get to working on it..

[51 3600]

Thanks all so much for the continued posts. Lot of helpful info since my last post. Also my apologies for my snarky response to the "why" question. Kinda wound me up a bit as I stated why in my first post. Guess the Neanderthal portion of my brain interpreted the question as "stupid idea". Always challenging on forums to express or interpret comments without the value of face to face conversation. Again, my apologies.

My takeaways after all the comments and suggestions:
It can be done. 1p2m's pic shows what I'm hoping to do.
Mr 48's plan probably the easiest and most practical considering space limitations. One drawback for me is the loss of the stomp action/travel as the tractor switch requires just a little more than a tap.
Mongo's lever action style solution keeps the stomp feel but space the definite challenge.
On the backburner as Mongo suggested til all the undercarriage work is done. Gonna happen though and still open to input. Thanks.

[mr48chev]

First motorized thing I ever operated was a Farmall Super C that my grandfather had here on the farm. It had a foot switch and it doesn't take long to get the hang of it and shouldn't be an issue. About the third or fourth time around it will be a natural thing for you to operate an you will never give it another thought.