Fast rust removal

[wilberweb]

Hi, Guys
Whats the fastest way to remove rust. I know of a few methods like dipping,
in acid,sanding,wire brush. All great ways, but time consuming. The processes of dipping the body in acid is the fastest,but its also the most expensive... I am on a slim budget.
also the fastest way to remove paint as well.is there a dip that I can do at home that does a good job? I have heard of farm molasses, but that's a long proses as well.Maybe a home brew of cos-tic soda or something along those lines.

Thanks
-Larry

[bretcopsey]

I've used both muriatic and phosphoric acid. Muriatic acid is faster, but the fumes are bad and it is a pain to dispose of. It also flash rusts almost immediately. Check my car domain page (for the truck) for results on the phosphoric acid.

[sgtusmc]

Originally Posted by bretcopsey

I've used both muriatic and phosphoric acid. Muriatic acid is faster, but the funes are bad and it is a pain to dispose of. It also flash rusts almost immediately. Check my car domain page (for the truck) for results on the phosphoric acid.

I have a lot of Muriatic acid for my pool. I've never used it on sheet metal, however, you have my attention now. What is your process if you don't mind me asking? I see you put the acid in a large plastic container. How long do you let the tin soak for? What do you do to neutralize the tin after the acid bath? Any help on this would be highly appreciated.

[Kabwe]

When I remove rust with chemicals I use phosphoric acid from home depot. For small stuff I mix it 50/50 with water in a big container and let it soak and it works great. For big stuff I use a spray bottle and wrap the part in plastic to keep it wet (as long as it stays wet it active) and let it set. I did my frame this way this is how it looked when done. I emailed to bretcopsey about it a long time ago and I must say it works great. Thanks Bretcopsey just in case I forgot to tell you thanks.


I just hit it with a wire wheel to remove the residue and epoxy and painted.

[sgtusmc]

Hey thanks Kabwe for the reply and pic man, much appreciated. What is the average time frame to soak a piece? Since I've never done this, what's a good sign the part is done and ready for removal?
I'm going to feel like an ass if you say, "it's done when the rust falls off and it looks pretty"....hahaha

[bretcopsey]

Kabwe, your frame looks great!

With either acid, neutralization can be acheived using baking soda dissolved in water.

Some people are concerned with hydrogen embrittlement with using muriatic, stating that there is a risk of cracking in the steel. I really don't like it as much as the phosphoric for the reasons I mentioned above. Additionally, it will etch concrete very quickly, so watch your garage floor if using this. Based upon my experience, non-diluted muriatic acid will remove all rust within an hour.

For the larger pieces, such as a fender, I diluted about 3-4 gallons of phosphoric acid into about 50-60 gallons of water (whatever the large city provided trash can "totes" will hold) I let them soak for a couple days. Results are acheived more quickly with less dilution.

For the hood, I built a shower using a plastic tub, tarp and submersible pump. I attached a garden hose sprayer to the pump and mounted it above the hood. I'll look to see if I took any pictures of this.

Phosphoric acid+ferric oxide=ferric phosphate(fertilizer)


This is what I get at Home Depot, about $13/gallon



http://www.wmbarr.com/product.aspx?catid=32&prodid=81

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by sgtusmc

Hey thanks Kabwe for the reply and pic man, much appreciated. What is the average time frame to soak a piece? Since I've never done this, what's a good sign the part is done and ready for removal?
I'm going to feel like an ass if you say, "it's done when the rust falls off and it looks pretty"....hahaha

I used the exact same product that bretcopsey posted I got it from home depot in the paint sections. I would say a couple of days in a 50/50 mixture. I don't dump the solution for a while because it remains active. I only dump it when it gets too cruddy. You really can't beat it.

Originally Posted by bretcopsey

Kabwe, your frame looks great!

Thanks man.

[wilberweb]

Wow!!! What a great response. I used Muriatic acid on removing mortar from cultured stone so I know its works great, so is Muriatic what the guys use for dipping whole cabs.
then do they neutralize the acid with a soda based product? I am going to use the acid to dip a lot of my parts in.I may get a live stock tank for the large parts like fenders... doors may not fit.
Great job on that frame Kabwe.

-Larry

[Kabwe]

wilberweb,

When I did my a fender and hood I used a spray bottle mixed 50/50 and soaked them and wrapped them in plastic and keep them wet.

[Spackle100]

Originally Posted by Kabwe

wilberweb,

When I did my a fender and hood I used a spray bottle mixed 50/50 and soaked them and wrapped them in plastic and keep them wet.

Did you hose it off with fresh water, or just leave it?

[Kabwe]

After I hosed it off with water I used a wire wheel hit the flash rust.

[bretcopsey]

This is the shower I built. All of the rust in these pictures was removed over a couple days.

[wilberweb]

I see.So no bath just acid mix on the surface, with a wrap. That's great...the less you need to mess with the better.So I will just get a tote to catch the water and acid, a tote to soak my small parts in.
So what stops the acid from continuing to penetrate the metal. I have heard that if you don't neutralize it, it keeps working and can damage the metal. Is that true?

-Larry

[63 & 64 Bowties]

another method:
http://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp

[itstheshu]

I may get a live stock tank for the large parts like fenders... doors may not fit.

-Larry[/QUOTE]

The acid will eat the galvanizing off of the tank. I learned this on a freinds tank I was using.

[wilberweb]

Oh... I didn't think about that.
Thanks a plastic tank is in order then.

-Larry

[GuyO]

I am still experimenting. I have electrolysis going on now AND a muratic (hydrochloric) acid wash. I find they both work, but electrolysis is slower. I like it for small pieces that are not painted, or painted much! I use hardware fabric and place all the loose nuts, bolts and washers as well as small pieces for my negative s. Found Arm & Hammer Washing Soda at Ace hardware in their cleaning section for tubmerged in the electrolite. The positive is just a piece of 1x1 box tubing I had. I use 2 amps overnight, then unplug it, wire brush the pieces to lossen the yuk and plug the charger back in. It takes me a couple of days and is cool to watch the little bubbles boiling. Then I dump my rusty solution on the grass out back. It doesn't run off into a wet area or storm drain, it just infiltrates. The acid wash is much faster, and works great for striping. So far I have done hood springs, hood latch, fan, Blazer soft top braces, lots of stuff. It works great. I have three tubs: 1) w/acid 64 ounces/5 gallons of water, 2) a pH nuetralizer made of washing sodas and 3) rinse water. The parts scrub up nicely, very little effort. I dry them with diapers and spay lighly with mineral oil to prevent flash rust. Disposal has been a neutralizing the pH. I use pH paper from our hot tub. So far so good.

[1project2many]

Acid likes to react with sharp edges and high spots. Acid doesn't like to slip under paint on flat surfaces. Nor does it remove grease. You can put a part into acid to soak only to find that a corner or detail has been dissolved while the large surfaces you wanted clean haven't even been touched. I can show you where I put lead in my grill thanks to this.

A steam cleaner or pressure washer will take a lot of rust down to nearly bare. It's a good way to get rough, scaly rust off without incurring the risks of breathing or wearing hazardous chemicals.

Caustic solutions work on rust, too. Lye, oven cleaners, &etc can react with iron in the steel and loosen rust. They're just as hazardous to skin and tissue.

Almost anything which reacts with iron or steel to make it "like new" leaves it in a state that is extremely ready to oxidize and rust. If you neutralize an acid with a base, the iron in the steel will react with any oxygen released during the process and end up with a rusty sheen. Of all the acids to use, phosphoric is probably the best choice for final cleaning because it reacts with iron to leave an oxidized finish which doesn't rust.

The electrolytic process is one of my favorites. It will pull large amounts of paint off a part. It will not dissolve a part and make it go away. It can be left alone for hours on end without worry. It doesn't require hazardous chemicals. It leaves steel in a state that doesn't rust as easily as most acids. And you can sit and watch it work without worrying about hazardous vapors.

[oldcouple]

Less corrosive is white vinegar and baking soda, http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-g...orks-pics.html

[blue10]

I've used Evaporust but never on a large surface before, but I bet it works just all well.
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[mr48chev]

I'm going to have to try the Prep and Etch thing on a bunch of small parts I have. I'm thinking one of the larger plastic storage tubs would be big enough to dip a lot of pieces I have saving paying the parts dipper to handle them. This is for my Model A Ford Victoria and not the 48 but I could do some things for the 48 in it too. A 5 gallon plastic bucket with a good fitting lid should handle a lot of small parts if you have a basket to use to put the parts in it.

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

I'm going to have to try the Prep and Etch thing on a bunch of small parts I have. I'm thinking one of the larger plastic storage tubs would be big enough to dip a lot of pieces I have saving paying the parts dipper to handle them. This is for my Model A Ford Victoria and not the 48 but I could do some things for the 48 in it too. A 5 gallon plastic bucket with a good fitting lid should handle a lot of small parts if you have a basket to use to put the parts in it.

Just don't leave them in there and forget about them. Check on them every day or so or you will end up with parts that have a hard powdery coating on them. I also have a basket I use to clean parts and it works great. I mix the prep and etch 50/50 with water.

[B_Hix]

Originally Posted by Kabwe

For small stuff I mix it 50/50 with water in a big container and let it soak and it works great.

Not to insult anyone , but 'DANGER/DANGER' - it's worth saying, never pour water into acid, always acid into water - a violent reaction can take place!

These are awesome and fast - just watch heat build up on thin metal:
http://www.eastwood.com/flap-disc-4-...d-80-grit.html

And these are beastly as well:
http://www.eastwood.com/cylindrical-...sh-5-pack.html

For any light surface rust leftovers:
http://www.eastwood.com/rust-encapsulator.html

[made2drag]

good ideas

[JumboAMONGus]

i use RUST MORT , comes in a bottle, used it for years , my dad use the same stuff and paints over it no problems all tho i did use it on a jeep once and then a few weeks later the metal turned all brittle on floor boards and flaked apart