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Old 02-05-2019, 02:59 PM   #1
Missyblue
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help/advice on planning please 1957 truck build swap

I need advice and expertise my mechanic is good for helping swap but not so familiar with options for these old trucks. I have been scouring threads and places but hard to find direct advice. any you have is greatly appreciated. so for the big stuff I'm currently figuring out

I have a 1957 gmc stepside my family is giving me a 1990 chevy van with a rebuilt 350 tb engine and I have a 700r4 transmission. planning most likely a mustang ii based off previous advice so I have disk brakes and can utilize power steering

1. what else could I use from the van as far as accessories? could I utilize the power steering or any of those elements? just trying to see how much I could get out of the van that is usable.

2. what steering column options do I have new/old where I could utilize my original steering wheel and I want automatic and don't know if I care. kinda like key in dash but could go either way. I have heard ididit is highly recommended for quality but pricey. curious of other new or old options you have experience with

those are the big ones currently just trying to learn. much appreciated.
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Old 02-05-2019, 03:28 PM   #2
mongocanfly
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Re: help/advice on planning please 1957 truck build swap

Doubtful the van steering will do you any good...but the pump on the engine you can use
You can use a floor shifter for your automatic and keep your original column and wheel...unless your trying to get away from a 3ott...
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Old 02-05-2019, 03:30 PM   #3
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Re: help/advice on planning please 1957 truck build swap

if you go with an ifs seriously look at the bolt in stuff. it is a little more $ but you can do some of it yourself and the cross member comes as a unit with all the control arm pivots etc welded in place at the proper geometry. no guessing and then weld it in and hope for the best for drive-ability. also consider the wheel bolt patterns available when looking at the kits for options otherwise the fronts will be different than the rears so 2 spares required or a good motor assn membership
I recommend to keep the donor vehicle as long as possible because unless you strip it all down, sort, label and store the stuff you will end up having a shed full of parts to sort through every time you need something. when it is still on the vehicle you will know exactly where it is because it is still bolted on.
you can use the stock steering column and shorten it and install a bearing at the bottom end then grind a double d end on it so an aftermarket steering u joint will fit. you won't have a column shift though but the steering wheel and signals etc will look original. you will need to use a support where the column goes through the floor because the steering box is usually the lower support and it will be gone. search for the info because it is done on here somewhere. you can also use the van steering column and then do something about the aesthetics of it all after the fact. for aftermarket do a search because a lot of the cheaper ones will just be trouble waiting to happen. they have plastic or resin parts where the better ones have metal.
for brakes it will depend on if you want the original style of a flat firewall of you want to lift the hood and see a brake booster. how practical do you want to be? mine has the booster on the firewall because it is easier to deal with and mine will be a daily driver, not a show truck. you would need to come up with a set of pedals and some firewall bracing to reinforce the pedal area in that case.
if you have the 700r4 trans your rear axle ratio will likely be fine because it has an overdrive so you won't be screaming down the highway waiting for the engine to give up.
you will need to use some sort of fuel pump and tank arrangement because the tbi will need an electric pump. ditch the tank in the cab idea as nobody will want to hear the pump running behind them and the tank in the cab is a not great idea anyway as far as safety is concerned (I will wait for the come back comments on this one, lol). with a different tank comes a different fuel filler. if you plan to use the box for anything then a fender mounted filler will be in order. again, save the van till you're done. maybe a fuel door will be required. who knows, maybe the tank could be used to save some cashola.
anyway, thats a start
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Old 02-05-2019, 03:30 PM   #4
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Re: help/advice on planning please 1957 truck build swap

[QUOTE=mongocanfly;8459327]Doubtful the van steering will do you any good...but the pump on the engine

you are meaning power steering pump correct?
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Old 02-05-2019, 03:33 PM   #5
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Re: help/advice on planning please 1957 truck build swap

Yes power steering pump....
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Old 02-05-2019, 03:57 PM   #6
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Re: help/advice on planning please 1957 truck build swap

If you have room to store the van until you do have every piece that you can use off it I'd hang on to it until that point. There is always that one piece that you could have used that you end up having to go buy. I've even had to buy a couple of parts back off a hulk I hauled to the junk yard and that really is a burn.

I'd say you are correct in that the steering column out of the van is just too cluttered with stuff including the switch to want to put it in the truck. There are bearing kits to use with the stock column after you cut it off or cleaner columns out of some earlier trucks that would work.

I'm not sure on there being a bolt on MII crossmember for TF trucks but I I have never checked. If you have a welder and can weld or have someone who can weld te weld on ones aren't that difficult though.

Decide what motor mounts you want and that will different if you have a MII than if you run the I beam. rear trans mount crossmember has to work with the front mounts.

These swaps are done every day but I like your wanting to plan ahead and have it pretty well figured out before you start. That takes care of a lot of problems and a stalled project.
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Old 02-05-2019, 04:35 PM   #7
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Re: help/advice on planning please 1957 truck build swap

planning is useful till the first shot is fired. meaning: unless you have a lot of experience with what can and does go wrong building trucks, its better to break it in to modules, then figure out what module comes first, then do that first thing until its done. lots of people get enamored by teardown and thats the easiest part. instead, identify what has to be done first (I would probably start with the MII) and leave everything else alone, pull the front clip intact, pull the old engine and trans intact, remove the front suspension, and install the new one. dont get sidetracked tearing down a drivetrain donor, or polishing the bolts that hold the fenders together, or literally anything else until that front suspension is installed.

then move to the next thing, probably drivetrain.

but before you move from module one (front suspension) to module two (drivetrain), you will have experienced at least 3 and probably more project-ending scenarios, like a crack in the frame, or hidden accident damage, or bent framerails. do not stop, keep going. its like an onramp with a tricky merge, if you stop, you are dead, you have to keep moving until its well behind you. solve the problems one at a time as they come at you.

I can open craigslist right now and find 3 projects completely disassembled with boxes of new parts and nothing done. some guys NEED that big pile of parts, because buying parts is progress, right? no. its just piles of parts.

if you want to finish, only work on what is needed to move forward. the interior will be calling you on those cold nights.. "refinish me... paint me... polish me...", its all a waste of time in a truck that doesnt run.

not being negative, just honest.
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Old 02-05-2019, 10:42 PM   #8
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Re: help/advice on planning please 1957 truck build swap

This is an interesting opportunity. But how to make it workable? A 90 van wiring harness is a kluge. The good news is that most of the computer harness is routed under the floor to the computer which is mounted under the driver's seat. This gives you plenty of harness to mount the ecm in your truck. The bad news is that some of the wiring goes up into the van body through the bulkhead connector on the firewall. It would be challenging to think you have all the wires you need, discard the rest, then realize you still have more to pull from the van.

The fuel tank mounts between the frame rails and the filler neck exits the rear of the tank on the driver's side. I am thinking the suggestion to pick a different tank is a good one. I'm not going to argue dsraven's comments about putting the pump in the tank inside the cab. I did that when I installed efi in my truck in '93 and I doubt I would choose the same path again. The hardest part is controlling the fuel vapors!

What size van? 1500/2500/3500? A 90 van will have a bolt in subframe. I don't know if there's any chance of connecting it to the truck but if I had both vehicles side-by-side I'd be sure to look. The van steering linkage consists of two intermediate shafts that cover over 100 degrees of angle change.



The column may work but there's a *bunch* of wiring work to be done if you use it.

I can't think of anything else right now.
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:33 AM   #9
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Re: help/advice on planning please 1957 truck build swap

thank you for all the info. and yes through guidance I have discovered I was working towards the wrong path and my 1st job has been discovered and decided to be the front end. my truck was purchased as one of those said box of parts but thankfullymost the sheet metal is in place but they cut all the wiring and removed the engine and tranny. so I just need to remove the front fenders to start on job 1 suspension. I have a local shop full tilt street rods Im
considering and hoping will help with the mustang ii. my dad can weld and do some mechanic stuff but we aren't sure we want to tackle that job ourselves as it is important safety wise we we will decide after more research and visiting said shop. and thanks for the lug comment I have thought of that and am trying to pick a mustang ii that provides the right option so I can match I don't have friends at the tire shop to hook me up.

fuel tank has been removed and I'm researching under bed options for safety and fumes for sure. my 4 year old is helping build this one bolt at a time so safety is paramount too haha. I like the idea of the filler out the license plate.but have read good and bad. mustang out the bed will be the 2nd choice.

does anyone know specific years of steering columns that woukd work? I have seen 70-80 vans and older trucks?? what years if you might know? i want to go automatic for better room for us 3 to travel so my original manual column isn't going to work.

thanks for suggesting I keep the van I will leave it intact and only part out once our build is complete we do have a place for that thankfully.

I have a wiring kit so wasn't planning on using the vans but I'm not sure mine is right yet either but that's another story. starting with the truck harness and then will continue to add the pieces needed for the mods I make. have to figure out how many circuits I should do. this was my 1st plan till I realised have to remove half the wiring to put in mustang ii and engine so that's now on hold till later.

thanks for making me think and spending the time to share your knowledge. trying to educate myself before I go talk to the mechanic
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Old 02-06-2019, 02:04 AM   #10
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Re: help/advice on planning please 1957 truck build swap

I am useing a column from a mid '80's chev pickup. Mine came from a floor shift truck so didnt have a shifter on it but most probably did have an auto shift. I shaved the key lock off and left the key on the dash. The column is a bit long but it works for my deal really well. FYI
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Old 02-06-2019, 02:54 AM   #11
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Re: help/advice on planning please 1957 truck build swap

the welding portion of a mustang II is actually not that scary, if you can use a tape measure its actually pretty satisfying to burn in heavy parts to heavy frame rails. its actually easier to use too much heat than not enough, if that makes sense. too much heat will undercut the weld, easier to see, not enough sits on top mocking you, like a rolled out piece of bubble gum.

avoid part collecting is the brunt of my advice, chances are the parts you buy months ahead of time may not fit when it comes down to it, and there is nothing quite like a large forboding group of parts staring at you, waiting to be installed. it can be a motivation killer!
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Old 02-06-2019, 08:42 AM   #12
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Re: help/advice on planning please 1957 truck build swap

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Originally Posted by joedoh View Post
the welding portion of a mustang II is actually not that scary, if you can use a tape measure its actually pretty satisfying to burn in heavy parts to heavy frame rails. its actually easier to use too much heat than not enough, if that makes sense. too much heat will undercut the weld, easier to see, not enough sits on top mocking you, like a rolled out piece of bubble gum.

avoid part collecting is the brunt of my advice, chances are the parts you buy months ahead of time may not fit when it comes down to it, and there is nothing quite like a large forboding group of parts staring at you, waiting to be installed. it can be a motivation killer!
thank you for that. yes my father has welded plenty on the farm but that doesn't necessarily have to be precise and I know nothing and have lots to learn haha. But that's the hope if we get a good kit with good instructions and support from the vendor I think it woukd be great just want to make sure we have the necessary tools and help.

and I appreciate the advice on part collecting. I do have a few things already staring at me haha but mostly this research is to know options available so I can learn a rough cost to get this done and so I can start watching for things. our local salvage yard is a bit pricey so watching other places for parts. for ex. rhey want around $500 for a Ford 9 rear and I have seen them on Craigslist at times for $200.

can't wait for better weather. summer plans is hopefully front end and wiring work.
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Old 02-06-2019, 08:44 AM   #13
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Re: help/advice on planning please 1957 truck build swap

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I am useing a column from a mid '80's chev pickup. Mine came from a floor shift truck so didnt have a shifter on it but most probably did have an auto shift. I shaved the key lock off and left the key on the dash. The column is a bit long but it works for my deal really well. FYI
hey theres definitely some trucks like that around here. did you use the original wheel with it or are.you using the 80s wheel? hoping to use original
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Old 02-06-2019, 11:25 AM   #14
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Re: help/advice on planning please 1957 truck build swap

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hey theres definitely some trucks like that around here. did you use the original wheel with it or are.you using the 80s wheel? hoping to use original
My truck came with an old rusty 14", 3 spoke custom wheel and my column didn't come with one. But the hub for the wheel that came with the truck fits the new column and all looks good, good possibility stock wheel would work.
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Old 02-06-2019, 11:37 AM   #15
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Re: help/advice on planning please 1957 truck build swap

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My truck came with an old rusty 14", 3 spoke custom wheel and my column didn't come with one. But the hub for the wheel that came with the truck fits the new column and all looks good, good possibility stock wheel would work.

great thank you
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Old 02-06-2019, 11:42 AM   #16
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Re: help/advice on planning please 1957 truck build swap

-check out the procedures with the local dmv before you take too much stuff apart. it may save you a bunch of headache later. you wouldn't wanna weld over a frame stamped vin or find out you needed to do something before the truck was dissassembled and it is too late now that you have ifs welded in.
-figure out the rake angle you want, use a digital level wherever you can so you get things dead on, not just close. a cheaper digital torpedo level can be placed on top of a longer bubble level if need be. a bubble level is ok I guess but they are so dependant on how you are facing the level for what you see and they are "in the ballpark" but not dead on for angles. ensure you look at the level the same way each time, straight on and not from an angle. for instance, I used a "fat max" 4 ft level when I was setting my frame set on some stands to get it level side to side. it was dead on with the bubble level. then I placed my torpedo digital level on top and it was out 4 deg. I turned my 4 ft level end for end, just to check,set it in exactly the same spot and the digital still said 4 degrees. not a huge deal for levelling the frame but if you wanted a 2 degree rake angle and ended up with a 6 degree rake angle your front end would be pretty hard to align. ask an alignment guy if 4 degrees is a big deal and see what he says.
-start by removing body work and cleaning up and checking the frame for square, sag and straightness. a lot could have happened to your truck over the years and if you don't have any history you never know. do a corner to corner dimension check. it is allowed to be out a little but not much. 1/4" I think but don't quote me on that. then do a check straight down the middle with a string line or a laser if you have one. put some tape at the midpoint of each cross member and them mark the center, side to side dimension, on the tape. when you run the string line down from front to rear all the tape markings should be in line. the tape also serves well later when the engine goes in because the engine needs to be parallel to the frame for driveline angles to be set up correctly.
I don't know what you have for a work area but a place with a concrete floor is nice for setting up the frame. if not available you will need a solid base to get the jack stands to sit on so they don't sink into the dirt. a couple of patio blocks will work if nothing else, as long as you don't start hammering on things too much so they break from the impacts. you will need to set things up so nothing moves the wrong way when a bunch of weight is removed or added. work safe.
what worked really well for me as adjustable frame stands was a couple of old jack stands that I removed the sliding part from then tack welded a flat piece on top that had a hole drilled to accept some threaded rod. I tacked on a nut to the top of the flat piece and then used some threaded rod that could be screwed down into the jack stand. I installed another nut on the threaded rod to act as a jam nut against the jack stand nut so when the rod was adjusted where I wanted it for height the jam nut could be tightened up and the rod wouldn't move and self adjust. on the other end of the threaded rod I welded a 3/8 bolt so it could go up through a hole in the truck frame. I used another nut there on the top side of the frame as a jam nut and some washers to keep things nice and flat for the nut and bolt when all was said and done. a pic below will tell the story better. the cross member in the pic is not the correct one for my truck frame so that would be a first check for you when the parts roll in. it was probably boxed wrong, see the gap at the front side where a 1/2" nut resides to show the gap. use some threaded rod that has some strength to it, I believe mine was 1/2" and it was fine as long as you keep the distance from the stand to the frame fairly short, otherwise it can shake a little sitting on the smaller rod size. this way the frame can be set up to the rake angle you want plus side to side can be levelled pretty easily by simply turning the threaded rod with the welded on end of the 3/8 bolt head, then when it's right just tighten everything down and do a final recheck before welding stuff in. ensure to figure out what tire sizes you will be using as your final size before you set the ride height and figure out where the wheel will sit in the opening. a taller tire on the rear will affect the rake angle.
if your dad is ok for tack welding stuff then you can get the cross member and other items tacked in place, then dissassemble all the periphery items you have assembled to check wheel opening and ride height and then have the real welder come and burn it all in. chances are dad would do fine with the welding but when/if the frame gets inspected there may be questions asked. better safe than sorry. hiring a welder is the reason I suggested the bolt in style cross member in an earlier post. by the time you do all the set up work, tack welding etc, and then pay a welder by the hour to come out and burn it in, you may be close to the cost of a bolt in cross member. do the math and know before you start. also, a bolt in will be easy to see if you actually got the correct part before you weld something and it's too late. the bolt in will fit or not fit right away.
if you are not stuck on a ford 9 then you could also check the ford 8.8. it is a pretty strong diff as well and there may be more available, so cheaper, since they are used in a lot of ford products. some use an explorer diff but it has an offset center section so that may affect other things like exhaust routing. the mustang diff is centered though.
here is a link to the ranger station where they talk about some 8.8 facts.
https://therangerstation.com/tech_li...8_8-axle.shtml

and another to the hotrod network with a blurb on the comparison between different units
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ford-8-8-rear-end/

anyway, there are a few more thoughts for you to ponder
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Old 02-06-2019, 12:07 PM   #17
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Re: help/advice on planning please 1957 truck build swap

you should also do some research on how a mustangII or other ifs works so you get the angles correct when you are done. in the pic above that I posted you can see the upper control arms are at a down slope to the spindles. this should be level or slightly the other way. this is because otherwise as the suspension travels upwards over a bump or whatever, the length from the frame to the upper ball joint gets longer, due to the arc the control arm travels through, so the wheel will tip out and get closer to the fender as the suspension compresses. if it starts out level or slightly sloped down towards the frame, the wheel will always get further away from the frame as the suspension compresses. make sense?
try the heidts customer help line and maybe they will send you a pdf of their "understanding independent front suspension" article. it will help you understand stuff so your new front end will work like it should,no bump steer etc. they also sell a bolt in kit I think, if interested in that
http://www.heidts.com/pdf-2014-catalog.pdf

I would worry less about steering wheels and other cool stuff until you get the front end figured out. research what you like for ride heights, rake angles, tire sizes, spring types you want, brake sizes etc. the options in the different kits can add up in a hurry so know what comes as a starter package and what will be extra. compare apples to apples. ask about tubular control arm wall thickness, bushing types, cross member thickness, components used as far as who makes it and the quality also replacement as far as what did the ball joints come from etc. there will be a difference even as far as if the ball joints have a sealed boot or of the boot will simply be sitting on the joint so water and dirt has easy access. screw in ball joints or press in joints, power steering or manual, if power what fittings will be used to match up to your pump, will you need a p/s pump pressure relief kit, what type of brake calipers are they using, wheel bearings and seals or sealed hubs, tyupe and size of brake calipers and recommended master cylinder bore size, etc. size of wheel studs used, metric o standard threads. 6 or 5 bolt pattern and on what circle, does that match the plan for the rear end? will the brake master cylinder be upgraded to match, will that be a frame ,mounted unit and if so will the new front end be in the way of the "through the floor" pedals. what about the cross member under the trans, it will likely need removal so you will need to factor in something else to hold the trans up plus not lose strength of the frame where the cab mounts go. you don't wanna break the cab mounts apart later due to frame flex or end up with doors that rub the fenders after you drove over a curb sideways etc.
more stuff to write down and get answers to. maybe you already have?
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:23 PM   #18
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Re: help/advice on planning please 1957 truck build swap

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Originally Posted by Missyblue View Post
I need advice and expertise my mechanic is good for helping swap but not so familiar with options for these old trucks. I have been scouring threads and places but hard to find direct advice. any you have is greatly appreciated. so for the big stuff I'm currently figuring out

I have a 1957 gmc stepside my family is giving me a 1990 chevy van with a rebuilt 350 tb engine and I have a 700r4 transmission. planning most likely a mustang ii based off previous advice so I have disk brakes and can utilize power steering

1. what else could I use from the van as far as accessories? could I utilize the power steering or any of those elements? just trying to see how much I could get out of the van that is usable.

2. what steering column options do I have new/old where I could utilize my original steering wheel and I want automatic and don't know if I care. kinda like key in dash but could go either way. I have heard ididit is highly recommended for quality but pricey. curious of other new or old options you have experience with

those are the big ones currently just trying to learn. much appreciated.
Looks like your open to anything, I took the TBI engine and transmission and stuck it in my 59 utilizing every accessory on the engine. I even used the harness and all upgrading my lights and ignition wiring. Is this what your referring too or only the suspension?
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