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Old 01-17-2018, 10:42 PM   #1
BigMike
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Overheating issues

Sorry, it's a long post. But I figured I'd give you all the info I thought you may need to help...

I have had a heck of a time trying to figure out the overheating issues in my truck. I've replaced & upgraded several parts trying to figure it out but now I need professional help (with my truck too).

I bought the truck (basket case) back in '05 and finally got it on the road in '12. From that point till now it has over heated. Engine is a 86+ HO GM crate motor. It runs great at lower temps but once it starts going above 210+ it starts to feel like it's going to die and I need to have my foot feathering the throttle at idle. Once it dies it will not start again for another 15 minutes, at which time it will fire up and run until it gets around 210+ again then it acts up again. No steam or white smoke so it's not a head gasket.


Engine is a 86+ HO GM crate motor
TH350 (soon to be stage 2 200r4)
3:73 posi rear
Mallory Unilite electronic dist
Edelbrock 1406 Electric choke
Sanderson shorty headers
Edelbrock high volume water pump
Edelbrock 2101 Performer manifold
Aluminum 2 core (1" tubes) radiator
Dual 12" electric fans w/Aluminum shroud
180 Thermostat. Dakota Digital sensor in the front of the manifold.
Dakota Digital VHX gauges and a DD fan controller
Timing 11 degrees, 38 degrees total


I replaced the oem style 4 core copper radiator with an aluminum 2 1" tube radiator - still overheats. All air removed from radiator and mixed half distilled water & half antifreeze. Overflow attached and filled.

Changed the factory clutch fan with dual 12" with aluminum shroud - still overheats

Added a polycarbonate 1" spacer under the carb because it seems I was getting vapor lock, not as bad but still does when it gets hot.

Could it be the carb? I am at a loss because it all of the cars & trucks I've ever owned I never had issues keeping them running cool with just the factory components. In the cooler (low 70's) times of year it runs great and really has no issues. But once the temps get around 80+ I always have issues...which is what the temps are most of the time in Southern California. Anyone have any ideas that I may not have tried? I've researched for hours and hours on the subject and everything I have found was either already done, or I tried it and it didn't work. The other option is taking to someone that knows all about cooling and tuning and have them see if they can find the problem.

Thanks...
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Old 01-17-2018, 11:22 PM   #2
geezer#99
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Re: Overheating issues

At what rpm are you setting your low initial timing?
You could need about 16 initial.
You also likely need a fuel regulator set at 5 psi.
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Old 01-18-2018, 12:02 AM   #3
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Re: Overheating issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by geezer#99 View Post
At what rpm are you setting your low initial timing?
You could need about 16 initial.
You also likely need a fuel regulator set at 5 psi.
Edelbrock fuel pump factory set to 6psi, suggested pump for the carb. The RPM was in the 850 range.
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Old 01-18-2018, 12:27 AM   #4
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Re: Overheating issues

Two negatives!
Eddy carbs don’t like more than 5 psi. With your pump you might be flooding just enough when it gets hot to cause your idle problems.
Also at 850 rpm you’re likely already kicking in the mechanical timing in the distributor. That means your 11 initial might be actually 3 or 4 or less degrees. You need to get the idle down under 750 rpm, then set your initial to 14. Lack of timing is a heat builder.
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Old 01-18-2018, 12:33 AM   #5
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Re: Overheating issues

I just checked real quick online and both videos I watched said the same thing for the 1406, 5psi! Okay, I'll order up a regulator and gauge right now to get it at 5psi. Once I get the regulator installed I will try the timing at 16 initial and then see what that does.

Thanks for the help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geezer#99 View Post
Two negatives!
Eddy carbs donít like more than 5 psi. With your pump you might be flooding just enough when it gets hot to cause your idle problems.
Also at 850 rpm youíre likely already kicking in the mechanical timing in the distributor. That means your 11 initial might be actually 3 or 4 or less degrees. You need to get the idle down under 750 rpm, then set your initial to 14. Lack of timing is a heat builder.
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Old 01-18-2018, 01:09 AM   #6
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Re: Overheating issues

Don’t buy a liquid filled gauge if you can. They don’t like heat either.
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Old 01-18-2018, 08:59 AM   #7
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Re: Overheating issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by geezer#99 View Post
Donít buy a liquid filled gauge if you can. They donít like heat either.
I agree with this . If you do get one only set the pressure when the gauge and engine is at room temp at first start up . After that you will get a false reading when the heat starts to warm everything .

I do agree to get you timing correct .

Are you sure you got the proper rotation on your water pump . If I remember correctly those come in both standard and reverse rotation . It sound like you have covered all the bases . Just something strange going on . I would verify the water pump part # to rule it out .

Just something to check off you list since your are beyond common problems .

Also has the heads been off . Head gaskets can be a problem if not correct .
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Old 01-18-2018, 11:16 AM   #8
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Re: Overheating issues

Does your Mallory have a working vacuum advance?
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Old 01-18-2018, 12:13 PM   #9
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Re: Overheating issues

I made sure the water pump was correct rotation and not a serpentine setup when I bought it. I had a no name high volume pump in it when I first got it running but swapped it out in my quest to lower the temps. I hope the fuel pressure is the problem, along with the timing being off. I have seen videos of fuel dripping while idling and mine does the same thing.

Having a heck of a time trying to get a regulator though...I guess the idiots in CA deem them the devil and won't allow Amazon to ship here? So sick of the morons that make the laws here, but I digress. I can't even find one in local parts stores so I will have to order through eBay.

I've owned just over 100 vehicles in my life and have never had the issues I've had with this thing as far as over heating goes. But this is also only the third Edelbrock setup I've owned. So tempted to switch to Holley but I have thrown so much $$$ at it already to fix the problem. I feel with your guys input I may be getting close to fixing it.

Also, heads have never been off. Motor has about 45K on it

Quote:
Originally Posted by homemade87 View Post
I agree with this . If you do get one only set the pressure when the gauge and engine is at room temp at first start up . After that you will get a false reading when the heat starts to warm everything .

I do agree to get you timing correct .

Are you sure you got the proper rotation on your water pump . If I remember correctly those come in both standard and reverse rotation . It sound like you have covered all the bases . Just something strange going on . I would verify the water pump part # to rule it out .

Just something to check off you list since your are beyond common problems .

Also has the heads been off . Head gaskets can be a problem if not correct .
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcampoDave View Post
Does your Mallory have a working vacuum advance?
Yes, Mallory has a vacuum advance on it
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Old 01-18-2018, 12:37 PM   #10
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Re: Overheating issues

Go shopping at summit racing or jeg’s to find a regulator.
I always buy one that has a max output of 5.5 psi. Easier to control pressure that way.
Your local parts emporium might even have one. Plus a gauge too.

Here’s a couple that are rated to 6 psi.
I’ve used one like it to run my dual quad at 3 psi.
https://www.summitracing.com/int/sea...illocation=int
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Old 01-18-2018, 01:26 PM   #11
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Re: Overheating issues

I just picked one up on Amazon. I guess as long as it is C.A.R.B compliant they will ship it. I have braided lines with AN fittings that go from the pump to the carb and aluminum line & AN from the tank to the pump. Bought Russel AN fittings and some aluminum fuel line to replace the Edelbrock "kit" that's on it now. I've read about issues with the Mr Gasket style regulators so I wanted to stay away from them. Will have everything by Saturday

Edelbrock 8190 Fuel Pressure Regulator 4.5 - 9 psi


I will let you guys know what the outcome is once I get everything setup and adjusted. I REALLY appreciate all your input. I have only been able to drive no more than about 20 minute outings in my truck since 2012 because of this issue. Can't wait to drive it further to truck shows and whatnot without having to stress about getting stuck on the side of the road (happened more times than I'd like to say). With the new stage II 200r4 trans (with stage III shifting) I can actually drive it on the freeway too. Just have to take the time to install it.
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Old 01-18-2018, 02:02 PM   #12
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Re: Overheating issues

I see you have a 180 thermostat listed . Is this the same thermo that has always been in there or did you change it . I did not see where you have replaced it .

If it has not been replaced I would pull it out and replace it . What type and brand of thermostat is in there .
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Old 01-18-2018, 02:07 PM   #13
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Re: Overheating issues

Yes, it was replaced with a Mr Gasket high flow 180

Quote:
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I see you have a 180 thermostat listed . Is this the same thermo that has always been in there or did you change it . I did not see where you have replaced it .

If it has not been replaced I would pull it out and replace it . What type and brand of thermostat is in there .
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Old 01-18-2018, 02:22 PM   #14
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Re: Overheating issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMike View Post
Yes, it was replaced with a Mr Gasket high flow 180
Was it replaced after your heating problem and still had the problem .


Just for the record , I have no faith in Mr gasket stuff .
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:08 PM   #15
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Re: Overheating issues

I swapped it out to try and fix the overheating...did nothing to help

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Was it replaced after your heating problem and still had the problem .


Just for the record , I have no faith in Mr gasket stuff .
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:40 PM   #16
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Re: Overheating issues

Vac Advance actually working? Some times those things go out in less than a month.

New water pump have a cast impeller or stamped steel type. The cast ones are not that good at getting water moving when you need it.

Clogged up heater core? Check by disconnecting the unit with a bypass. Are you seeing any signs of rust in your coolant? You have to drain it to tell. Most all new radiator flushes have an ingredient called sodium citrate. I am sure it does not do a really good job.

A small layer of rust internally can cause big issues.
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:52 PM   #17
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Re: Overheating issues

I don't see where you said the conditions under which it gets hot. Does it go over 210 while sitting idling in traffic? Cruising? Pulling a hill on the freeway? 210 isn't bad, but with a 180 t-stat you really should be running right at 180-190.
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Old 01-18-2018, 09:13 PM   #18
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Re: Overheating issues

Yes, vacuum advance works good. The water pump was a high end Edelbrock high volume stamped prop.

No heater core, it's bypassed. Eventually I'll get a vintage air unit but not until I get the overheating issue resolved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toolboxchev View Post
Vac Advance actually working? Some times those things go out in less than a month.

New water pump have a cast impeller or stamped steel type. The cast ones are not that good at getting water moving when you need it.

Clogged up heater core? Check by disconnecting the unit with a bypass. Are you seeing any signs of rust in your coolant? You have to drain it to tell. Most all new radiator flushes have an ingredient called sodium citrate. I am sure it does not do a really good job.

A small layer of rust internally can cause big issues.
If I am cruising at 45+ it will get around 200-204. Anything under 45 and it starts to get hot. I did have the fans come on at 185 & at 195. I recently changed the 2nd fan to come on at 186 but it didn't help any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselSJ View Post
I don't see where you said the conditions under which it gets hot. Does it go over 210 while sitting idling in traffic? Cruising? Pulling a hill on the freeway? 210 isn't bad, but with a 180 t-stat you really should be running right at 180-190.
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Old 01-18-2018, 10:59 PM   #19
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Re: Overheating issues

With the bypassed heater core do you have the line off the intake plumbed back into the water pump or do you have both plugged.
Sometimes that can create a heat problem.
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Old 01-19-2018, 08:00 AM   #20
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Re: Overheating issues

I just went and looked at the specs of the 350 gm ho crate motor . A couple things that I noticed . One was they recommend pump prem gas . What gas are you running . Looks like gm recommends a 93 prem octane . The other thing is they also recommend a total timing at 32 degrees total at 4000rpm , 5100 rpm max .

One thing that can contribute to overheating is a engine running to lean . If you are running a 87 octane gas this can cause it to run leaner . Also the 38 degree timing is to high in my opinion as well . This high timing can also cause high cylinder temps especially with 87 octane gas .

Just something to think about .
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Old 01-20-2018, 05:03 AM   #21
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Re: Overheating issues

I have not run anything lower than premium fuel in any of my cars in over 20 years. So that's not a problem. Interesting about the 32 degrees total, everything I have read has stated between 36-38 total. But what the hey, I'll try any trick at this point.

I will have all of the components necessary to add a fuel regulator by this Sunday. Once I get the final piece I will start the process of adding it, then once that is on I will re-time it with the recommended specs. I will also re-check the mixture to make sure it's not too lean. I set it up a few years back with a vacuum gauge. Not sure if it changes a lot with the timing but I'll check anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by homemade87 View Post
I just went and looked at the specs of the 350 gm ho crate motor . A couple things that I noticed . One was they recommend pump prem gas . What gas are you running . Looks like gm recommends a 93 prem octane . The other thing is they also recommend a total timing at 32 degrees total at 4000rpm , 5100 rpm max .

One thing that can contribute to overheating is a engine running to lean . If you are running a 87 octane gas this can cause it to run leaner . Also the 38 degree timing is to high in my opinion as well . This high timing can also cause high cylinder temps especially with 87 octane gas .

Just something to think about .
I have a hose connecting the water pump to the manifold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geezer#99 View Post
With the bypassed heater core do you have the line off the intake plumbed back into the water pump or do you have both plugged.
Sometimes that can create a heat problem.
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:22 AM   #22
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Re: Overheating issues

Heres what I was looking at . I think this is the engine you have . You can verify . At the bottom of the page is what I was looking at .

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...l-block-350-ho


That carb could still be running lean . Be nice to have a Air fuel gauge .

I dont know if you had seen this but on page 4 of the install instructions is there recommendation for the timing .

http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam...e-19210007.pdf

Last edited by homemade87; 01-20-2018 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:09 AM   #23
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Re: Overheating issues

210į in NOT an overheating problem. Fuel line touching a heater hose or near a header?

When it won't start for 15 minutes after dying does the accelerator pump in the carb squirt a good stream when hand operated?

What does the spark look like during this no-start period? Solid blue or orange and weak.

During the no-start period after dying, does it start if you tip in a little gas into the carb?

What is the vacuum reading during idle and how does the needle look? -BA
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Old 01-20-2018, 12:04 PM   #24
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Re: Overheating issues

have you tried a normal t--stat? i dont understand the whole high flow tstat deals if your coolant is moving to fast though the radiator it will not cool off enough and just keep building heat
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Old 01-20-2018, 12:30 PM   #25
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Re: Overheating issues

I ran an edelbrock carb on a couple different motors, 2 were 454s, and they didn't over heat. I think one had an issue of flooding because the fuel pressure, but swapped for a Holley. I'd try tuning the carb, lean of course can make a motor run warm.
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