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Old 11-07-2017, 01:29 PM   #1
randy500
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Cummins swap, I know there is a search button but the info is burried in many threads

I'm going to swap a cummins in my 72 crew cab.

The donor is a 93 W350 single rear wheel truck.

I know the dana 60 front axle is just about a bolt in with axle pads 1/2" wider and a similar track width.
I would use the dana 70 rear for the matching 3.55 gears, does anyone know the WMS width?
I would use the stock dodge overdrive trans mated to the dodge NP 205, any known problems making this work?


This is the info I am requesting.


1. Any front 4wd Differential clearance problems, I have a 2" lift or so.
2. Will the engine fit with the radiator in the stock location without firewall mods?
3. I know the Cummins is heavy so I assume frame reinforcement side to side is necessary which would probably be done with the engine mounting but has anyone used the stock cradle to mount the cummins?

Can anyone point me to these problems in previous build threads along with any other obstacles?

I don't want the install to languish, I want a quick install and on the road.

Any help is appreciated!
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Old 11-07-2017, 07:52 PM   #2
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Re: Cummins swap, I know there is a search button but the info is burried in many thr

Quote:
Originally Posted by randy500 View Post
I'm going to swap a cummins in my 72 crew cab.

The donor is a 93 W350 single rear wheel truck.

I know the dana 60 front axle is just about a bolt in with axle pads 1/2" wider and a similar track width.
Dodge D60 is about 2" narrower than a Chevy D60. also the Dodge D60 has 1/2" studs instead of 9/16 ones but you can put the 9/16 ones in your hubs with no mods. Get this bushing kit to make the dodge axle install easier into your chevy chassis.
http://offroaddesign.com/catalog/Dod...apBushings.htm
Here is a link to the D60 bible for more info on them
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/60_front/

I would use the dana 70 rear for the matching 3.55 gears, does anyone know the WMS width?
I would use the stock dodge overdrive trans mated to the dodge NP 205, any known problems making this work?

Your transmission should be an A518. Non lock up, overdrive trans. There is no problem with them being used. They don't get the mileage of a lock up 47rh but get the job done. Is your D70 an HD? I think the WMS on the HD is 66" but I can't remember for sure.
This is the info I am requesting.


1. Any front 4wd Differential clearance problems, I have a 2" lift or so.
A 2" lift will be close. The first gen oil pans have a little more angle on the sump area and tend to get real close to the pinion support web on the D60. You should be ok if you have 2" of lift.
2. Will the engine fit with the radiator in the stock location without firewall mods?
Yes, the engine will fit in there with the radiator in the stock location. I have a stock BBC brass radiator in my 72.
3. I know the Cummins is heavy so I assume frame reinforcement side to side is necessary which would probably be done with the engine mounting but has anyone used the stock cradle to mount the cummins?
If you are planning on using your K10 frame, yes, I would box it under the cab to at least the front leaf spring shackles. Some people have used the stock 1st gen dodge engine cradle but IMO it looks like poo. You're going to want to get poly replacement 1st gen mounts if you plan to use that style. The factory rubber ones don't last in stock form. If I were you and you want this to be a fast swap, call Dawna at Auto World in Montana and get their mount kit with cross member.
http://www.cumminsdieselrepowers.com...ion_Parts.html
Rob Bonney fab is another good source too.
I've just built my cross members on my chevy swaps. There are all kinds of pics online of people who have hacked the stock gas one and dropped them, but again, it looks hack IMO.

Can anyone point me to these problems in previous build threads along with any other obstacles?
Getting 4" exhaust up over the NP205 can be tight and close to the floor. Your front drive shaft will need lengthened more than likely. You can probably use the dodge rear shaft with a yoke change on your rear end.

I don't want the install to languish, I want a quick install and on the road.

Any help is appreciated!
Answers in blue above. If you have more questions, feel free to ask. Like you said, the info is spread out all over in different builds here. But it is here.
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Old 11-07-2017, 09:56 PM   #3
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Re: Cummins swap, I know there is a search button but the info is burried in many thr

Dieselwrencher, thank you so much, very helpful.

Damn, $7-$900 for a crossmember is a lot...Its doable but...can you point me to how you made yours or other nice ones?

I will definitely use the spring shackles for mounting the front dana 60 if I do this.
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Old 11-07-2017, 11:07 PM   #4
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Re: Cummins swap, I know there is a search button but the info is burried in many thr

http://chevymotormounts.us/rob_bonne...ing_sets_6.htm

Contact him to see if he has anything for 67-72s.

Here's a google search to show some pics. I can get you some of mine but they are buried in threads. Haha

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C....0.5bs1UjkYhPY
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Old 11-11-2017, 10:38 PM   #5
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Re: Cummins swap, I know there is a search button but the info is burried in many thr

I used the factory chevy motor mounts, and made my own buckets to fit them out of 1/4 plate. then cut out the lower crossmember and made a new lower one out of square tube. if you can build a crewcab door, you can handle this!
I have 4" exhaust, and just had to dimple it some around the edge of the transfer case so it didn't rattle.
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Old 11-12-2017, 12:05 AM   #6
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Re: Cummins swap, I know there is a search button but the info is burried in many thr

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I used the factory chevy motor mounts, and made my own buckets to fit them out of 1/4 plate. then cut out the lower crossmember and made a new lower one out of square tube. if you can build a crewcab door, you can handle this!
I have 4" exhaust, and just had to dimple it some around the edge of the transfer case so it didn't rattle.
Iím sure people have tried this before...the dodge crossmember appears to be removable, Iím gonna see how it fits in the chevy frame I guess. I looked at the donor truck today, I would have bought it but the banks were closed for Veterans Day.
Some things I noticed...
The trans and transfer case is very long, should give a pretty good front driveshaft angle.
The dodge radiator seems to be similar size to the chevy truck one and the inter cooler in front of it looks like it wonít be hard to mount in the chevy nose.
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Old 11-12-2017, 08:17 PM   #7
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Re: Cummins swap, I know there is a search button but the info is burried in many thr

the dodge mounts can separate, the chevy ones are encapsulated. thats why I used those.
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Old 12-07-2017, 12:48 AM   #8
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Re: Cummins swap, I know there is a search button but the info is burried in many thr

I bought a Cummins donor today, 1995 2wd 5spd truck, 293k or so....didnít want such high miles but did want The 5spd, it was advertised as a 96 which had me excited since those are 215hp, ended up being a 95, oh well. Runs good and no weird noises, trans is quiet and shifts very smooth. Bad power steering pump. Recently had the KDP fixed and a new front timing cover installed.
Anybody know why it might of needed a new front timing cover?
Here is a pic of the beater...it was close by so I just went ahead and bought it, $3600 and he drove it home for me. It not a factory dually, it has adapters in the back and what appears to be factory hubs and rotors in the front.
Iím gonna jack it up tomorrow and measure the width of the Dana 80, I think I can use it, problem is the tag says itís 4:10 ratio, probably change that to something taller. It is posi though, at least the owner states that and the tag on the cover states the same.
Changeover parts to convert the 5spd to mate up to my np205 are about $700. I will order that stuff tonight or tomorrow.
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:50 AM   #9
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Re: Cummins swap, I know there is a search button but the info is burried in many thr

Did it get a new gear housing or cover? The dowel pin usually takes a ride down to the cam gear and gets shoved out of the gear housing breaking it. I have a D80 in the back of my 72. These are about 4" wider than the HO52 if I remember right. Yeah, I'd be ditching the 4.10s unless you plan to run 35s. 3.54s are about ideal for these.
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Old 12-07-2017, 02:03 AM   #10
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Did it get a new gear housing or cover? The dowel pin usually takes a ride down to the cam gear and gets shoved out of the gear housing breaking it. I have a D80 in the back of my 72. These are about 4" wider than the HO52 if I remember right. Yeah, I'd be ditching the 4.10s unless you plan to run 35s. 3.54s are about ideal for these.
I have the Cummins dealer receipt and it was the back cover that was replaced, the one behind the gears, along with a bunch of seals and gaskets and a new timing pin.
If the dana 80 is 4 inches wider I wont be able to use it...I guess I will find out tomorrow when I measure it.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:08 PM   #11
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I have the Cummins dealer receipt and it was the back cover that was replaced, the one behind the gears, along with a bunch of seals and gaskets and a new timing pin.
If the dana 80 is 4 inches wider I wont be able to use it...I guess I will find out tomorrow when I measure it.
That's usually what gets replaced. You can use different offset wheels and still use the D80. My tires stick out a little, but that's how I wanted it. I surely didn't want the dog track look of an original K20 of this era.
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:08 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher View Post
That's usually what gets replaced. You can use different offset wheels and still use the D80. My tires stick out a little, but that's how I wanted it. I surely didn't want the dog track look of an original K20 of this era.
Iím not going to be able to measure the rear end today but found in pirate 4x that it should be about 69.5 wide which would make it about the same width as the front, might be usable, 4.1gesrs puts 65 mph rpm at 1850 rpm or so, I guess that would be ok, not ideal tho
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:38 PM   #13
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I’m not going to be able to measure the rear end today but found in pirate 4x that it should be about 69.5 wide which would make it about the same width as the front, might be usable, 4.1gesrs puts 65 mph rpm at 1850 rpm or so, I guess that would be ok, not ideal tho
You'd have to have 35s to get the RPMs down to 1850 at 65mph with 4.10s with a NV4500.

I saw in your thread that you have 33s. The NV4500 has an OD ratio of .73. So with 4.10s and 33s you're looking at 1981rpm@65mph. 2133@70, and 2286@75. Not horrible. Better than with 235s for sure. Haha
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:02 PM   #14
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You'd have to have 35s to get the RPMs down to 1850 at 65mph with 4.10s with a NV4500.

I saw in your thread that you have 33s. The NV4500 has an OD ratio of .73. So with 4.10s and 33s you're looking at 1981rpm@65mph. 2133@70, and 2286@75. Not horrible. Better than with 235s for sure. Haha
Your right, the 1850 or so was running my dana 60 with the 3.73 gears...my bad..I do have 33 inch tires, 32.7 actually I think is what Goodrich says.
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:20 PM   #15
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No problem. I didn't want you to be surprised when you got it together and was like WTH?
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:55 PM   #16
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My shackle flip kit arrived today, I got it from off road design, ORD...very happy with it, these 68 frames have oddball rear spring widths and lengths and I donít think they are available new, I got these springs from a 1990 or so 3/4 ton 4wd suburban, oddly the wheelbase worked out just right and the flip kit bolted right on using the old hangar rivet holes, super easy install.
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Old 12-08-2017, 06:05 PM   #17
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Nice. ORD has nice products and great customer service too.
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Old 12-11-2017, 12:02 PM   #18
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Re: Cummins swap, I know there is a search button but the info is burried in many thr

Have some turbo questions....
Clearly my engine is not running at its potential, i haven’t run it hard because there is no heater so the windows are always foggy and there is no power steering.

Has great power till about 21 or 2200 rpm, makes about 17lbs of boost in that range and before. Maybe it makes more boost and more power at higher rpm, I don’t know because I’ve only driven it on side streets and the foggy window provlem.

I looked in the cold side of the turbo and the blades are full of nicks, the outer edge appears to be worn, it’s dirty and there is some play side to side. I haven’t looked at the hot side yet.

Should I rebuild this turbo with a new shaft and wheels?
Is the core usually rebuildable?
Should I buy a new center section already assembled?
Or is the condition Normal for used and should I just run it like it is?

Another thing, how hard is it to remove the injectors and what does it cost for new seals etc, if I do that?
I have the $900 OTC diesel injector tester, I was considering pulling the injectors to check the condition while I have the engine out. Does anyone know if the Cummins injector will screw into he OTC tester without an adapter? I only used it once on some injectors from a sailboat, unsure of what engine was in the sailboat,
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:20 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by randy500 View Post
Have some turbo questions....
Clearly my engine is not running at its potential, i havenít run it hard because there is no heater so the windows are always foggy and there is no power steering.

Has great power till about 21 or 2200 rpm, makes about 17lbs of boost in that range and before. Maybe it makes more boost and more power at higher rpm, I donít know because Iíve only driven it on side streets and the foggy window provlem.

I looked in the cold side of the turbo and the blades are full of nicks, the outer edge appears to be worn, itís dirty and there is some play side to side. I havenít looked at the hot side yet.

Should I rebuild this turbo with a new shaft and wheels?
Is the core usually rebuildable?
Should I buy a new center section already assembled?
Or is the condition Normal for used and should I just run it like it is?

Another thing, how hard is it to remove the injectors and what does it cost for new seals etc, if I do that?
I have the $900 OTC diesel injector tester, I was considering pulling the injectors to check the condition while I have the engine out. Does anyone know if the Cummins injector will screw into he OTC tester without an adapter? I only used it once on some injectors from a sailboat, unsure of what engine was in the sailboat,
Randy, it sounds like you will need a rebuild kit and a compressor wheel. Nicks are no bueno. 17psi sounds about how much boost those make stock.

You can really sink a lot of money into a torn up turbo in a hurry if you aren't careful. Most places on the net are pushing China parts too and it's hard to know what you're getting. I've been putting a lot of these on trucks for guys lately with great luck. I am a dealer for them as well. Between the price of a turbine, comp wheel, rebuild kit, and the time of removing broken bolts from the exhaust housing, a rebuilt turbo is the way to go IMO.

https://areadieselservice.com/diesel...oduct/70-4005/

There are several different aftermarket ones but are more money and you don't really need one if you don't plan to make over 400hp.

The injectors aren't bad to remove. They can be stuck in the head. You can make your own puller with a short piece of tube, and a lug nut from a srw 94-02 dodge. Here's a link to a new one.

https://puredieselpower.com/dodge-pr...or-puller.html

I have the snap-on one that has different ends. This won't work on cylinders 5 and 6 though due to the cowl over hang.

To remove the injectors, you just remove the injection lines, return line, and then use a 15/16" socket to remove or loosen the hold down nut. Then pull the injectors out.

You'll probably need an adapter for the OTC tester. Did yours only come with one line?

The sealing washers vary on price. If you did have a 215 they are a thin washer. I can get you a price on injectors and any cummins parts you need too. Or, Puredieselpower is a great source as well.
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1976 K30 CC SWB Build Thread

Tired of spark plugs? Check this out.

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Old 12-11-2017, 03:33 PM   #20
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Have you rebuilt any turbo's? Any thoughts on how to get it done per my post?

Thanks for the info on the injector puller, I can make one of those.
I guess if I'm getting 17 pounds of boost and thats stock then I will do the turbo a bit later.
I just bought a low side fuel pressure gauge and a EGT gauge, I think I will install it and see what the numbers are....maybe check the injectors with the engine out.
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:49 PM   #21
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Randy, I've rebuilt many of them. Around here the rust and corrosion make it really hard to justify me rebuilding a turbo unless it's mine. Turbo rebuild facilities have special ovens they shove the cores in to rip them apart with less likelihood of breaking bolts and getting the housings off without ruining them. I don't have that and after the last 3 breaking every bolt off in the exhaust housing, I've had enough.

If yours has an HX35w, there are 4 bolts you have to remove to get the retaining clamps off so you can remove the center section from the exhaust housing. Most times you have to heat the exhaust housing to get the center section off.

Once you have the center out, place the center section in a vice and remove the comp housing. It has a very large snap ring that holds the compressor housing to the center section. Use large pliers or a huge snap ring pliers to remove it. Sometimes you will need to rap on the snap ring ears to get it to break loose. Be careful, they bite! You can use a small dead blow and tap side to side from the back to help break it loose. Be careful not to get the housing too cocked while doing this or you can damage the comp housing/wheel and or bend the turbine shaft. Once that is off you can remove the nut off the turbine shaft and remove the turbine form the center section. Then there is a snap ring to remove the thrust plate and there are other small snap rings holding the bushings in the center section. Sometimes you get lucky and they come right apart. Very doubtful though. Haha

Make sure your low pressure fuel gauge has a snubber in it other wise your needle will bounce.
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Old 12-11-2017, 04:12 PM   #22
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Ok, I figured taking apart the turbo was iffy...Now it's confirmed.

I did buy the snubbed but read mixed reports on whether they work right...
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Old 12-11-2017, 04:27 PM   #23
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By the looks of the engine pic on your other thread, is the compressor cover retained with a clamp?
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Old 12-11-2017, 05:40 PM   #24
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By the looks of the engine pic on your other thread, is the compressor cover retained with a clamp?
I guess I don't understand what a compressor cover is....
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Old 12-12-2017, 11:15 AM   #25
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I guess I don't understand what a compressor cover is....
It is the housing on the front of the turbo. It houses the compressor wheel. The H1C model uses a large clamp to hold the compressor housing to the center section. Where a hx35 uses the large snap ring.
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1976 K30 CC SWB Build Thread

Tired of spark plugs? Check this out.
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