Hood alignment help

[Missyblue]

Hey again we finally got our front end all together which is super exciting thanks to all your help. My hood is a mess and I have been trying to read forums and am struggling was curious if you have any tips. It basically sits too far back on the cowl of the truck and too high. Also bigger gap on passenger side than driver so I need multiple adjustments. I attached a few photos so you can see my dilemma and so you can see my hinges.
Thanks

[mongocanfly]

looks kinda like your hinge needs to drop down the firewall and your hood needs to go forward...id set the hood to the cowl first and then you may have to move the fenders and radiator support around some to fit hood

[dsraven]

first, since the paint looks good, run some masking tape on the edges where the contact points may be. then if parts bump together the paint may not get scratched.
check the door and hood hinges for wear to ensure you aren't fighting an uphill battle. check the cab mounts for integrity for the same reason
check the door gaps at the rear, adjust doors to get good gaps on the cab and line up body lines
adjust the fenders to the doors, adjusting the fenders at the rear top mount, with shims, affects the body line adjustment and height to cowl
adjust the rad support with shims to get the fender gaps against the door like you want. more shims under rad equals more gap at the bottom of the door and vice versa.
lay the hood on without hinges to check the fit. shim the width of the rad support against the inner fenders to get the gap correct on the front. there are also height adjusters on the cowl for the rear.
when you get the hood fitting well install the hood hinges. if there is no engine in the truck you can have a guy under the hood adjusting the hinges while guys on the outside are giving advice on up, down, forward or rearward. always open the hood slowly after an adjustment because lots of guys have lost paint on the edges at this time.
good luck

[bowt1ed]

As stated, first adjust/shim front end to gap correctly. Once done, if the back of the hood is still raised and you can easily push it down to the correct place (kind of like helping the springs a bit), you may need to shim the upper hinge bolt out. This changes the rotation point, allowing the spring to pull the hood down where it belongs. One 1/8" shim on each side. between top hinge (bolt hole) and firewall usually does it.

Cheers, Jim

[MARTINSR]

Here is a photo on where to shim it to lower the rear of the hood. But first.....

Did you have these panels aligned before you painted? You SHOULD have, that is when you align parts, then mark, remove, paint and reassemble and done deal. I know I did this on my Gran Sport and still the hood was up in the back. I shimmed it down and then someone pointed out to me that I had powdercoated the hinges, maybe they were simply not "happy" and moving freely. Sure enough, after I lubed them they moved more freely and the hood came down. So I see that those hinges look newly painted, maybe the paint is making the hinge not move as freely. The hinge is in that open position when you paint them remember (if the spring was on at the time) and the areas that rub together when the hinge is moving into the down position will be covered with paint!

So lube it FIRST and open raise and lower the hood many times to get it moving freely.

After that, then you can think about shimming the hood down at the points where the arrows are in this photo. It seems odd as hell to shim the hood down, I know, but look at it as said in the previous post, you are "rotating" the hinge to close further down.

It also looks like you need to go forward a little too, do that first so the hood doesn't hit the cowl. If it ends up too far forward once the rear is lowered, that's an easy fix to move it back, but hitting the cowl is NOT an easy fix.

NOW, all this is taking into account that the front fenders and such were all aligned properly! If you painted a bunch of replacement parts and such and never trail fitted them prior to paint, you are in for a BIG project and we need to look at a bunch of other stuff so let us know if that is what you did.



Brian

[Missyblue]

Thank you for the tips.
Brian, the truck was painted before i got it. It is original parts and not replacement panels but the guys son did it and it's not the best job so honestly I don't even think they removed panels to paint them. The paint job isnt perfect but works for us for now. Priority for me is getting her driving for my dad. Pretty sure it was painted all in place. I just put the front end on but haven't done the radiator support. Was just so far trying to make sure I have all my parts and pieces and trying to find all the bolts I need so wasn't wanting to put on too much that I'm going to have to tear out to get an engine in. But sounds like I may need to put in the radiator support to help with some of this alignment issues possibly. Thank you for the photo showing where I should address. And to clarify by shim are you meaning to add like a washer or such behind the bolt? Ill try the lubricating 1st as well

[MARTINSR]

You might as well install the rad support but that hood issue hasn't anything to do with it and you actually align the whole front end TO the hood which you first align to the cowl.

Lube those hinges, they may be a lot of the issue.

Brian

[MARTINSR]

And yes, it may not be perfect but it looks very nice for your dad to ENJOY driving!

Brian

[mongocanfly]

"[And to clarify by shim are you meaning to add like a washer or such behind the bolt? ]"
any shims would need to go between the hinge and firewall/or hood...washers will work

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

"[And to clarify by shim are you meaning to add like a washer or such behind the bolt? ]"
any shims would need to go between the hinge and firewall/or hood...washers will work

Yes they go between the hinge and the hood or firewall to space the two apart. But to clarify they are only to be put where I put the red arrows in this case.


Brian

[mongocanfly]

^^^el-correcto^^^

[Missyblue]

Thanks for the clarification. I'm waiting on help. Dad's back wednesday and I'll give it a try and keep you posted. Again much appreciated

[Missyblue]

So oiled the hinges and it moves better but didn't help the offset so next is shims. Here's to hoping

[dsraven]

move the hood a few times up and down every day till it comes time to adjust, you may find it settles in. the spring may not be able to overcome the tension of the friction in the hinges right now.
a lube that I have used and found works well is fluid film. you gotta shake the can like spray paint before using though. it sticks in the hinge forevever (but then again, I do live in the freezer). it works pretty good for a penetrating lube as well.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by dsraven

move the hood a few times up and down every day till it comes time to adjust, you may find it settles in. the spring may not be able to overcome the tension of the friction in the hinges right now.
a lube that I have used and found works well is fluid film. you gotta shake the can like spray paint before using though. it sticks in the hinge forevever (but then again, I do live in the freezer). it works pretty good for a penetrating lube as well.

YEP!

I couldn't believe when mine did this after I had them powder coated. Someone on a forum suggested it and sure enough, I had to remove the shims I had put in! LOL

Brian

[Missyblue]

So I have tried the moving of the hood frequently and lube on the hinges and hasn't changed so today tried to start moving. Per the photos above I understand the shim on the lower hinge to firewall is to tip the back of the hood down and the shim for the top of the hinge that bolts to the hood is to shift it for being tight to one side. But how do I get it to move to the front of the truck as it is too far back on the cowl? At this point I plan to just remove hinges and crawl under the hood like suggested but just not understanding if the tipping the back down will also move it forward or if I missed a step
Thank you

[dsraven]

the holes that mount the hood to the hinge are slotted, correct? so you would move the hood forward/away from the firewall on those bolts to move the hood away from the firewall and closer to the grille. when you shim the hinge at the bottom the hood will automatically track towards the cowl.
if there is no engine and trans and you have safe access to under the hood while the hood is closed, like you could squirrel away in there, then you could crawl in and adjust the hood from inside while it is closed. have a buddy on the outside to check the fit with a paint stick as a gap measuring tool. if it is bad enough you may have to slot the holes a bit more. look for a reason why it is like that first though.
I always suggest to check the body where the cab mounts are and get the cab mounted on good mounts, install and adjust the doors to fit the cab, then install the rad support and hang the front fenders, get them fitting well and then adjust the hood. the fender to door gaps can be adjusted by shimming under the rad support or under the front cab mounts in order to get the body line straight and the gaps between the fenders and doors looking good. these old trucks were work trucks so they had some wild gaps and fitment right outta the factory. they were cruisers, but in the fields etc.
post up some pics of whatcha got for gaps etc

[Missyblue]

Ok so we fought with it today. The hood won haha. So the hood is as far forward on the hinge as it will allow already from the pictures above I discovered yet still sits too far back and high on the cowl. We tried adding the shim on the lower bolt of the bracket that mounts to the firewall and it didn't seem to change much so not sure if I just need a bigger shim. So questions
1. When you say have a person in the engine bay are you completely removing the hinge 1st or just have them loose so it can move around? We had everything loose and were still struggling to get the right movement and then not sure how to tighten her up from under there. Even with the extensions I have I couldn't get access to the bolts around the hinges when the hood as shut on my head haha
2. If I do need to remove hinges(possibly for bigger slots??? As dsraven said might happen) will the spring stay on or am I going to have to get that buger back On?

I know they didn't remove anything to paint this truck so I feel like I should be able to get it together without starting over with body panels but maybe I'm hoping

Thank you

[dsraven]

how does the cab sit on the frame? mounts are good and body around the mounts are good? you have the proper clearance between the frame and the bottom of the cab, as shown in the assembly manual? the reason I ask is because if the cab is slumped down (quite common in the front cab mount area because the mounts rust and cave in some) and not sitting correctly then that affects how the cab and the rad support/fenders relate to each other and this has a bearing on how the hood fits after the fact. it is pretty common for the cab mounts to be shot and the area around them compromised so the cab isn't at the correct height and angle in relation to the frame rad support so this compounds the misalignment of a hood. if the cab slumps then the angler is downward at the front so the distance between the rad support and the firewall becomes less, make sense? it would be a good idea to start at the rear of the cab and work forward. check the body lines between the rad support and the rear of the cab, run a string from one end to the other (a magnet works well to hold one end) and see how the body lines up. if the cab is sagging or at the wrong angle or too tight to the frame compared to what it was designed to be then start by getting that part correct and move forward from there.

try the old car manuals project link for some drawings with dimensions, there is a year specific index at the bottom you can click on for other years. all the task force/apache trucks should be the same as far as frame to floor dimension. from what I can see it should be 1.9" but it is a bit hard to read. some years have better manuals than others.

anyhow, get the cab correct, then get the rad support mounts correct (you can shim here for the right angle as well as at the front of the cab when that time comes) then work on the doors and get the gaps correct top and rear and latch fitment correct, then work on getting the fenders aligned to the doors (shim under the rad support or the front of the cab now) and body line straight from the front of the front fender to the rear corner of the cab, then work on the hood alignment. sounds like a lot of work but really it is already together and working so it may be just a matter of ensuring the mounts are good etc then adjusting/shimming to get the gaps and body lines good and THEN adjusting the hood. it makes sense, if you think about it, that if the rad support, where the hood latch is located, is not in the right spot then the hood won't fit right because the latch is too far forward or back or too high or low. if a door is on a bit crooked then the fenders will be adjusted to fit that and then the hood could really be outta whack. worth a look at least before modifying something to fit when it should already fit. the cab floor should be parallel to the frame, roughly.

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com...esto/56133.htm

[dsraven]

another quick note. I see you are working on a 57 gmc like myself. mine is Canadian so more like a chevy rad support, but, the brace that goes side to side at the rad support and also houses the hood latch has slotted holes and could be adjusted forward some to enable the hood to have some gap at the rear.
is sounds to me like the angle of the cab may be part of the issue. if it is slumped down at the front then the distance from the top of the rad support to the top of the firewall would change. it is like the relationship between your hands held in front of you, parallel to each other. if you tip one hand inward at the top then the distance between the top of your hands gets less, the same concept applies to the cab and the rad support when the cab slumps down at the front. that is why I mentioned to run a stringline down the bodyline from the headlight to the gas filler area and see if the bodyline varies from the string in the middle, near the front of the door.

[dsraven]

also, you can shim between the rad support and the inner fender to allow more room on each side of the hood to get the gap uniform front to rear on the hood.

[Missyblue]

Thanks so much for the response. Yeah I remember you helped me figure out my radiator support pieces and I remember yours being different. I haven't put it on her I guess I will look into that. I have the Chevy manual I'll start looking into my cab supports 1st. Do you know if the actual shop manual would be helpful with some of this? I saw I could buy one of those

[dsraven]

I haven't personally got a shop manual, more a fly by the seat of my pants guy, so I can't say for sure what is actually in there. it may help you with a few other things though.
get the cab right first, mount wise, and then the rad support, then check with the string line to see how stuff lines up as far as needing to shim cab or rad support. make sure to use tape over any body parts that may contact as you move things. it will help preserve that nice blue you have there.
check this thread at post 162 for a pic of the stringline check I am talking about

https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...=608904&page=7