"Check engine" light

[Shorty Cox]

The "check engine" light came on on my '04 Chevy Silverado 4X4. Took it to the local Chevy dealer for repair yesterday. $582.66 (parts and labor) later I got it out of the shop and returned to work. Then last evening on my way home from work.......yes you guessed it........the "check engine" light came on.

Is this not a money making "gimmick" for Chevrolet? You know, a post-it note in the correct place will fix it.

At 8:00 am, I plan to call the dealer.

Just wanted to rant.

Shorty

[shifty]

I have OBDII connectors for all my cars to scan the codes and look them up, then clear them. Your local Autozone will scan the codes for you and you can look them up online, or they can tell you what the codes are. HAs it been roughly 5k miles since your last oil change? That may be what the new code is.

I'll never let a stealership touch my car, usually. That $500 job was really probably more like a $50 job, they inflate your parts and charge you a flat number of hours per job, which could be 2 hours even if it takes 30 minutes to complete. It's a total racket.

[70rs/ss]

For once I am in total agreement with Shifty!! J/K, but he is correct, go to Autozone and let them scan for free, they will then point you in the right place for the part. That light can come on for overfilling the gastank, not screwing the gas cap on tight enough, etc. The flat rate they charge at the dealer is a money maker, they go by the book, even if it took 30 minutes to do a 3 hr job, they charge the 3 hrs. I'd be pi$$ed and would demand a refund for the labor (and the part depending on what the new scan says is wrong). It is very easy for a tech to become a parts changer if they do not understand the way systems work together and one trouble code does not in and of itself mean a part is failed, but could be another part upstream that triggered it!! A good tech is worth their weight in gold!! Good Luck, and get you're money back!!

[FarmTruk]

70rs/ss, you took the words right out of my fingertips.

The OBDII diagnostics are great, but like you said, they only point to the system that is failing. It does NOT specify exactly which component in that system is the problem.

My buddy had a "check engine" indicator on his brand new, 2007 Honda Civic, with about 10,000 miles on it. I told him to tighten his gas cap, and it went away like magic.

[Longhorn Man]

lets not flame the mechanic untill we find out what happens when it goes back in.
As for the book time thing, any mechanic will tell you, it is just as easy to get burned on that as it is to come out ahead.
Example;
99 (I think it was a 99) astro van, little POS work van, the book calls for 8 hrs to do an engine swap. Seems doable untill you realize, there is no way for the enging to come out the front... nor through the inside. You have to drop the entire front subframe.
Everyone knows the dealer is expensive. That makes me wonder why so many people GO THERE to begin with.

[Shane]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

Everyone knows the dealer is expensive. That makes me wonder why so many people GO THERE to begin with.

Roger that. *****, moan and complain ... and a few weeks later they take the very same vehicle back to the same dealer for an oil change.

[70rs/ss]

Not I!!

[resin addict]

It's very simple, you paid them $582.66 to fix the problem causing the check engine light to come on...they didn't fix the problem. Go back, tell them to take their un-necessary parts back, put your old, apparently good parts back on, and give you your money back.
Either that, or replace the faulty new parts with good ones, at no addl. labor costs.
A co-worker had a similar problem with his Avalanche, very hard starting, the dealership tried a number of different fixes, fuel pump, regulater, etc. to the tune of approx. $700...he took it home and the following morning had the same problem, brought it back, they tried something else (can't remember what, but it was like an addl. $300)and that fixed it...he raised heck about the first round of repairs, and the dealership caved and refunded his money for the first repair.

[Shane]

If you really want to get their attention, wait until you can catch them around some tire kickers and POTENTIAL customers (service desk, on the lot, in the showroom, etc) and then speak in a firm voice that EVERYONE around can hear (no need to yell) and let them know that you are not happy with the service and/or the way you have been treated.

They will normally get the problem repaired pretty damn fast.

[68C15]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

lets not flame the mechanic untill we find out what happens when it goes back in.
I will back you on this. if we all keep an open (albeit cautious) mind things will go smoother for all parties involved. not a single one of us was there watching over the tech's shoulder. I refuse to condone shoddy diagnostics but yet I have such a limited amount of info at this time.


As for the book time thing, any mechanic will tell you, it is just as easy to get burned on that as it is to come out ahead.

I lost 2.5 hours on a GM 6.0 broken exhaust bolt job last week. I ended up pulling the head and felt it wasnt right to charge the customer for un-productive time. (my conscience hurts, grrrr)



I also want to point out how a check engine light can come on for about 175 different reasons on newer vehicles. many are even more numerous. for instance a code P0442 (.020 evap system leak) could be caused by one or more of the untold quantity of clamps or fittings leaking, a loose or defective gas cap, dirt or bugs stuck in the vent solenoid valve, defective leak detection pump...

[resin addict]

Originally Posted by 68C15

I also want to point out how a check engine light can come on for about 175 different reasons on newer vehicles. many are even more numerous. for instance a code P0442 (.020 evap system leak) could be caused by one or more of the untold quantity of clamps or fittings leaking, a loose or defective gas cap, dirt or bugs stuck in the vent solenoid valve, defective leak detection pump...

But why should the customer have to pay for trying each and every one of these until the right fix is found?

[jcueckert13]

where did you take it? cause i need to go work there. the dealership i work at has us diag the problem for free and if we diagnosed it wrong the labor come out of the techs pocket. you have to realize that with flat rate (which is what all dealerships pay their techs) the only way to make money is to find the fastest way to do the job and charge what the book says. one of my favorite jobs at the moment is broken rear hatch handles on the sienna minivans because they pay 2.0 hours to remove the door panel to get the hatch open and replace the handle, through finding the fastest way to do the job i can do one in 8 minutes wihout damaging the panel (which if damaged comes out of my paycheck) and allows me to make up stupid s*** like broken exaust bolts that take longer to drill out than the job pays.

[EAST SIDE LOW LIFE]

My family car a Benz C280 had the engine light came on Last week and I took it in to the dealer and the service tech ran a scan and 15 different codes came up. They reset the memory (blanked it out) and then the service manager told me some interesting points about these modern systems that cars have these days.

First off the system in my car cycles 3 times which means after engine light comes on, the next 3 times that you start and stop your car the memory will clear itself if there has been a code that is in error or if it is something that you correct through the starting and stopping of your car. After 3 times if the memory doesn't clear itself take it in to the dealer.

These systems are so sensitive that if you don't put your gas cap on properly it can set off your check engine light.

Oh, btw the dealer never charged me for their time spent diagnosing my car and setting the memory back to zero. The sevice manager said that they were not going to go through 15 codes as this is not normal and to bring my car back if the engine light comes on again.

I hope this helps.... I take better care as to how my gas cap is put on since this experience.

esll,

[68C15]

Originally Posted by resin addict

But why should the customer have to pay for trying each and every one of these until the right fix is found?

the customer SHOULD NOT. what i was trying to do was get people to have an open mind to the posibility that something else happened between then and now. the famous "ever since syndrome" can cause very bad tech-customer relationships.

[70rs/ss]

That's what I was talking about in my first post, check engine lights can come on for all kinds of crap. Just because the light came on after the repair, does not mean the repair was wrong. I say, unhook the battery and clear the codes, then see if it comes on again, if it does and stays on, then go back and have it rescanned.

[68C15]

I would have to check but IIRC the 04 GMs will not clear with a power loss. you need a scanner to clear them.

[bwood]

I'm with the Autozone scanner idea. They check it for free, but do take their advice with a grain of salt (the guys around here do more guessing and up sells than trouble shooting). I picked up a middle of the road Actron OBD II scanner for around $90 at Sears (on sale for 99.99 from 129.99 and 10% off that for in store sale. How could I pass it up. I have had the same back and forth with a Ford Dealer on one of our work trucks:
-cylinder misfire, tune up, IAC valve
-Oxygen sensor, bad coil
-MAF, CTS

Finally I said screw it and did the MAF and CTS myself. Everything good for about 2 days, came on again, had it scanned again some of the same stuff and some new ones. While trying to leave it wouldn't start, jacked with the cables and it started. Got back to work and started cleaning cables and found bad corrosion about 8" down the jacket on the positive cable and the short negative about 3". Replace both cables with OEM style set from NAPA and the codes cleared (because the battery was unhooked) and it has been 5 weeks and no codes.

[centsless]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

lets not flame the mechanic untill we find out what happens when it goes back in.
As for the book time thing, any mechanic will tell you, it is just as easy to get burned on that as it is to come out ahead.
Example;
99 (I think it was a 99) astro van, little POS work van, the book calls for 8 hrs to do an engine swap. Seems doable untill you realize, there is no way for the enging to come out the front... nor through the inside. You have to drop the entire front subframe.
Everyone knows the dealer is expensive. That makes me wonder why so many people GO THERE to begin with.

I agree with Longhornman.
The check engine light will come on for many different reasons. T post a note over the light and ignore it may cost you thousands in the long run. It will not come on if you need an oil change, but it can if you fill the gas tank with the vehicle running, or leave the gas cap loose. Most all shops use flat rate pay scale, not just the dealerships. I dont agree with it either, but it is that way. I have worked many a day for free because of flat rate. Keep us informed, I am interested to see what the outcome is.

[72CSTC5]

Originally Posted by bwood

I'm with the Autozone scanner idea. They check it for free, but do take their advice with a grain of salt (the guys around here do more guessing and up sells than trouble shooting). I picked up a middle of the road Actron OBD II scanner for around $90 at Sears (on sale for 99.99 from 129.99 and 10% off that for in store sale. How could I pass it up. I have had the same back and forth with a Ford Dealer on one of our work trucks:
-cylinder misfire, tune up, IAC valve
-Oxygen sensor, bad coil
-MAF, CTS

Finally I said screw it and did the MAF and CTS myself. Everything good for about 2 days, came on again, had it scanned again some of the same stuff and some new ones. While trying to leave it wouldn't start, jacked with the cables and it started. Got back to work and started cleaning cables and found bad corrosion about 8" down the jacket on the positive cable and the short negative about 3". Replace both cables with OEM style set from NAPA and the codes cleared (because the battery was unhooked) and it has been 5 weeks and no codes.

You are correct my friend, you would be surprised what a low or bad battery or dirty connections will do.

[alpha_male0203]

I dont know if anyone has heard of this before. But something Really not that high in price and you could save neighbors money also. If you have a lap top or a pc not to car from the garage. http://www.obd2allinone.com/sc/details.asp?item=obd2usb something for you to look at. Its very nice and easy to work with.