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Old 07-03-2018, 08:40 PM   #51
ncpetersc
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

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Originally Posted by AussieinNC View Post
Just read posts since my last one before dinner...dont worry too much about location of #1 for time being...but, you should not be able to just twist the distributor...

The carb is flooding, most likely due to incorrect float level or junk under needle and seat...Is there an inline fuel filter between fuel pump and carb?

I would not suggest you pull the carb apart,,,way too many things can go wrong there...but perhaps you would be better off with an exchange carb from an auto parts store?

With the engine running, twist the distributor counter clockwise a little bit at a time...no more than 1/4" movement at the vacuum canister...you should notice an increase in engine speed...if it does increase speed,lock it down temporarily and put the timing light on it...HINT...Shut it off, clean the balancer and timing mark tab so you can see the lines...on the balancer, there is a slice mark across the outer ring,,,mark it with some white chalk or marker pen....makes it easier to see...remove and block off the vacuum lead to the advance canister on the dist...start the engine again and set the timing to 12 degrees...and lock the dist down...then reconnect the vacuum line to the canister.

Setting the timing this way will give you a baseline to at least start with.

Once the timing is set, the carb will be your biggest challenge.

If there is no inline fuel filter between pump and carb, make sure you put one on before you fit any replacement carb...lots of tiny rust particles in these old fuel systems.

Post your results...

Also, make sure firing order is set 1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2 with drivers side engine from front being 1 3 5 7 and passenger side 2 4 6 8 .

Stay cool dude...
Going to answer your posts one at a time. I went ahead before reading this, so I used the diagram to position the distributor and started it. It's not great, but its a big step forward. (This truck is very "fumy" for some reason.

I managed to get a timing light on it and wish I read your hint first. My eyes were bugging trying to read my last pen mark from two years ago. But it appeared 14-15. I shut it down, and removed the vac lead and plugged it. I think I read maybe 10 (I willl mark it better tomorrow).

Then I noticed it was idling high, close to 1200. I dropped it down to close to 800 ( it didn't really sound like it wanted to run lower). And I think the timing read about 9ish advance. I'm using one of those dig. advance ones, so only using the zero marks.

Regarding the carb, I definitely don't trust myself, and I think if its wrong maybe I should try to have them compensate me somehow. It was JUST rebuilt to the tune of $300+. Another thing I saw while it was running was fuel puddling at top of accelerator pump. Just can't be right.

Oh and I actually thought about adding an inline filter when I got the carb rebuilt, but got completely sidetracked with everything else that went wrong. I don't have one, just the one at the carb. With mechanical fuel pump is it typical to do it ahead of the fuel pump down below?
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Old 07-03-2018, 08:41 PM   #52
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

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The ign lead positions are relative to where the rotor is pointing when dist is installed...yours appears to be off a little, but I would not be moving the leads around right now...if you have you will most likely find it wont start at all now...put them back where they were and follow my most recent post.
I didn't change them, just rotated the distributor.
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Old 07-03-2018, 08:44 PM   #53
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

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Re...white smoke, especially from drivers side...this is an auto truck...the trans uses a vacuum modulator that senses engine vacuum to determine shift quality...the vacuum line from the trans fits into a small rubber line that plugs into the rear of the manifold .....if the vacuum modulator splits and they do regularly...the engine vacuum will suck transmission fluid up into the manifold and with the result lots of white smoke....and I mean lots...

Remove the vacuum hose to the trans and plug the manifold port...then run the engine again...it will take some time to burn out the trans oil in the manifold if this has been leaking...

If it leaking, they are relatively easy to replace...but we will cross that bridge later.

I read about this about a year ago when I was chasing down the cause of the white smoke. I replaced the modulator back then, but it didn't seem to be the solution. It's actually not smoking as bad now as it did, so I was wondering if the bent push rods explained it with valves not opening as they should.
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Old 07-03-2018, 08:47 PM   #54
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

Thank you all! I knew I'd find great wisdom here. Like looking at a picture and seeing a distributor out of place. Invaluable knowledge and experience here! I hope to keep learning.
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Old 07-03-2018, 09:38 PM   #55
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

The fuel puddling in the accelerator pump is a sure sign of a carb that has excess fuel float height and is flooding...

Mark the balancer and tab, set it to 12 degrees, vac port blocked for advance unit...

Even if it idles at 1000 in neutral, that will come down to 800 when in Drive...

When you get timing set, throw a vacuum gauge on a full manifold port source...not the timed source for the dist vacuum...and tell us what the vac reading is...

I would try and get some money back from that shop...that carb "overhaul" simply is not correct...

I always add an inline fuel filter between fuel pump and carb...reduces chances of dirt entering new carb.

I would seriously look at an Edelbrock Performer 600 carb with electric choke...you would need a adapter plate...or perhaps a reman Quadrajet from a local auto parts store...

Stay cool mate

Aussie..aussie...aussie...
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:19 PM   #56
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

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Just noticed in your pic the distributor appears to be one post off on its installed position...someone has obviously had the dist out and been sloppy putting it back in...Cyl # 1 wire usually points direct at Cyl 1...drivers side front...yours points at Cyl 2...

Just post the compression readings and we will go from there...
I believe the #1 post was on the passenger side with the old points distributor and they moved it to the drivers side with the HEI distributor. I've had a couple of "really" old timers tell me my #1 wire was on the wrong side of my HEI, it was on the drivers side. I did a little research and found the factory switched sides.
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:57 PM   #57
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

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Well I have waiting for someone to yell "NO! STOP! WAIT!" but I guess I will try to start it.

Here is the diagram I am going by, and the options. Doesn't say Highlander, but custom deluxe?

sorry for the rotated diagram
Bingo! Highlander (available only on Custom Deluxe models, and it's a highlander if it has one of the 4 offered plaid seat covers) - and a paint/trim combo I've never, ever seen before... Orange w/Avocado plaid. Nice! Thanks for posting.

Last edited by jocko; 07-03-2018 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:53 PM   #58
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

I wouldn't worry too much yet about where the #1 plug wire is on the distributor cap. That's a refinement "back to stock" that can wait for the moment, if you've gotten the thing to run better. People stab the distributor wrong all the time, myself included, and just move the wires accordingly until it runs. The difference is that I would go back and make it right to stock. AussieinNC has it exactly right, your carburetor is flooding. Fuel spilling out the accelerator pump rod hole is a classic symptom of that. IMO, first order of business is to take the carburetor back to the shop. If you can remove it yourself without voiding the "warranty" I'd recommend that. Flooding that much fuel into the engine can badly dilute the oil. In fact, I'd recommend checking your oil level, and sniffing the dipstick (away from the engine) for gasoline fumes.

MEANWHILE, is there someone on this board who can steer this poor fella to a reputable shop in his area!?
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Old 07-04-2018, 12:30 AM   #59
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

The best shop out there you can find is in yourself. You have already proved your abilities.

Quote:
A few hours later, however, was a different story. I had fashioned a clip out of a beer can and connected the choke back up to the linkage. I had also checked the oil, and added a little. I think that's all I did, and the darn thing was difficult to start. And I had to feather it or keep some throttle to keep it running. I can't think what could be so different from when it ran fairly well a few hours earlier.


The complete tech specs are listed here in the technical section. Everything else is on the internet.

Read here:

Crankshaft Coalition: https://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/...Coalition_Wiki

The internet is a tool that will serve you well, so people chose to ignore it. Me personally find I save big time bucks by doing my own work.

Most of the people here are more than willing to lend a helping hand, just ask and ye will receive. My truck is nearing 50 and a rust bucket, yet it runs like a rapped ape. People still **** when I hit it in traffic.
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Old 07-04-2018, 11:23 AM   #60
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

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Originally Posted by AussieinNC View Post
The fuel puddling in the accelerator pump is a sure sign of a carb that has excess fuel float height and is flooding...

Mark the balancer and tab, set it to 12 degrees, vac port blocked for advance unit...

Even if it idles at 1000 in neutral, that will come down to 800 when in Drive...

When you get timing set, throw a vacuum gauge on a full manifold port source...not the timed source for the dist vacuum...and tell us what the vac reading is...

I would try and get some money back from that shop...that carb "overhaul" simply is not correct...

I always add an inline fuel filter between fuel pump and carb...reduces chances of dirt entering new carb.

I would seriously look at an Edelbrock Performer 600 carb with electric choke...you would need a adapter plate...or perhaps a reman Quadrajet from a local auto parts store...

Stay cool mate

Aussie..aussie...aussie...
Okay I am at 12 without vac. connected. Interestingly it didn't seem to change when I reconnected the vac cannister. I thought I saw a difference in the past. It's idle is now about 930 with 12 deg. advance.

For the manifold vacuum. Is this port ok to use? The one that was unplugged when I got it back. (Yes I did plug it, they had a plug on the port that they should have connected the choke vac to, so I put it on this port when I connected that choke can)

It's about 20inches at this port
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Last edited by ncpetersc; 07-04-2018 at 11:32 AM. Reason: Added reading
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Old 07-04-2018, 11:34 AM   #61
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

Here's a pic, it rose to about 20 after I took it and stayed there.
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Old 07-04-2018, 12:43 PM   #62
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

You have great vacuum, the engine is in good shape.

Check out that Crankshaft Coalition Page there is an entire write up on Hei dist. and vacuum advance.

I picked up an adjustable vac adv can and it allows me to dial it to the engine and conditions I drive.
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Old 07-04-2018, 01:02 PM   #63
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

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You have great vacuum, the engine is in good shape.

Check out that Crankshaft Coalition Page there is an entire write up on Hei dist. and vacuum advance.

I picked up an adjustable vac adv can and it allows me to dial it to the engine and conditions I drive.
Good news! And progress! (Thanks again to you all).

Any recommendations for next steps? I'm thinking maybe I can try to tune the carb idle. Maybe use the adjust for max vacuum then adjust idle iterative method?
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Old 07-04-2018, 01:26 PM   #64
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

Did you know that your mechanical advance in the distributor starts to come in near 800 rpm. At 950 rpm yours likely is. That means your 12 initial isn’t likely accurate. Could be closer to 5 degrees.
You need to get the idle down near 700 rpm.

Have you fixed the flooding carb yet?
Any tuning you do is meaningless until you do.
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Old 07-04-2018, 01:51 PM   #65
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

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Have you fixed the flooding carb yet?
Any tuning you do is meaningless until you do.
? If not.... You might want to bite the bullet and pay a pro to do it right.
Here is a highly recommended source specializing in Q-Jets. They can also tune the carb to your application.

FREE QUOTE:
https://cliffshighperformance.com/request-a-quote

BTW: Nice Truck! Sounds like you're on the right track to get the issues resolved. If you can get your money back from the place that rebuilt it, you may have most of the money needed for Cliff's to get it right!

Good luck & Happy Independence Day to all!
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1998 Camaro SS, LS1, A4, 3.42. Free Tune - Stock 13.08 @ 106.55 >Lightening Strikes Again!< Sold 9/9/2018 she too will be well cared for as 1 of 45 produced in blue, with Auto and no T-roof.

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Old 07-04-2018, 01:52 PM   #66
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

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Did you know that your mechanical advance in the distributor starts to come in near 800 rpm. At 950 rpm yours likely is. That means your 12 initial isnít likely accurate. Could be closer to 5 degrees.
You need to get the idle down near 700 rpm.

Have you fixed the flooding carb yet?
Any tuning you do is meaningless until you do.
I didn't do anything to the carb, but I have noticed any puddling or leaking today.

I will lower the RPM and double check the timing.

Thanks!
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Old 07-04-2018, 02:02 PM   #67
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

Your motor seems to be in good shape from what we can tell over the internet. A new carburetor and a HEI distributor should fix most of your problems.
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Old 07-04-2018, 02:41 PM   #68
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

Good to see you are making progress..now that it will at least run and sort of idle...getting the carb right is next step....

You need to either...get the shop to refund you for the junky job they did on the carb...or...put it down to experience and grab another carb, either an exchange rebuilt one from an auto parts store or maybe google guaranteedcarburetors. They have rebuilt Quadrajets for $198 inc shipping...

"not a plug...just a simple parts assist admins"

One critical thing you should add is an inline fuel filter between the pump and the carb...

Once you have the carb right, set your idle to about 700, block off the vac advance and set timing to 12...BTDC...reconnect the vac line and set your idle to 700...in Drive....MAKE SURE SOMEONE IS IN THE DRIVERS SEAT WITH THEIR FOOT ON THE BRAKE while you set the idle in drive.

Good point made earlier about fuel dilution by gas flooding the carb...once you get the carb right, and before you drive it on the road...change your oil and filter...

You are doing great...there are a lot of us on here more than willing to help...
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Old 07-04-2018, 02:44 PM   #69
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

I see a couple of guys are recommending you buy a new HEI dist...suggest you put that on back burner for a little while, as there are a couple of "tricks" you need to do when installing a new HEI dist in a points based truck.

HEI is a good idea for later on, but lets get it running carb wise first...

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Old 07-04-2018, 03:56 PM   #70
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

Love the truck. You'll get the issues sorted out soon enough and will enjoy driving the old girl around.

Maybe it is just my eyes, is there not a bolt securing the passenger rearside of the carburator down? Maybe the carb is not securely attatched to the intake manifold?

Looking at the photo from post 60.
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Old 07-04-2018, 04:26 PM   #71
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

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Love the truck. You'll get the issues sorted out soon enough and will enjoy driving the old girl around.

Maybe it is just my eyes, is there not a bolt securing the passenger rearside of the carburator down? Maybe the carb is not securely attatched to the intake manifold?

Looking at the photo from post 60.
I just checked; look at Post 13, looks securely bolted.
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1998 Camaro SS, LS1, A4, 3.42. Free Tune - Stock 13.08 @ 106.55 >Lightening Strikes Again!< Sold 9/9/2018 she too will be well cared for as 1 of 45 produced in blue, with Auto and no T-roof.
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Old 07-04-2018, 04:29 PM   #72
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

On CorvetteForum.com there's a guy Lars out in Colorado who rebuilds Quadrajet carbs and does an incredible job. I think he has a couple of week turn around on his jobs. His email is V8fastcars@msn.com. He also is practically a genius a tuning an engine and getting them to run great, and is very willing to share his knowledge. Shoot him an email describing your problems, and maybe discuss a carb rebuild with him. Do some research on him, and you'll find nothing but praise for his work.
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Old 07-04-2018, 04:54 PM   #73
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

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Originally Posted by ncpetersc View Post
Well I have waiting for someone to yell "NO! STOP! WAIT!" but I guess I will try to start it.

Here is the diagram I am going by, and the options. Doesn't say Highlander, but custom deluxe?

sorry for the rotated diagram
Yep sheís a highlander! Avacodo plaid trim! Nice looking truck!
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Old 07-04-2018, 06:34 PM   #74
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

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Originally Posted by AussieinNC View Post
Good to see you are making progress..now that it will at least run and sort of idle...getting the carb right is next step....

You need to either...get the shop to refund you for the junky job they did on the carb...or...put it down to experience and grab another carb, either an exchange rebuilt one from an auto parts store or maybe google guaranteedcarburetors. They have rebuilt Quadrajets for $198 inc shipping...

"not a plug...just a simple parts assist admins"

One critical thing you should add is an inline fuel filter between the pump and the carb...

Once you have the carb right, set your idle to about 700, block off the vac advance and set timing to 12...BTDC...reconnect the vac line and set your idle to 700...in Drive....MAKE SURE SOMEONE IS IN THE DRIVERS SEAT WITH THEIR FOOT ON THE BRAKE while you set the idle in drive.

Good point made earlier about fuel dilution by gas flooding the carb...once you get the carb right, and before you drive it on the road...change your oil and filter...

You are doing great...there are a lot of us on here more than willing to help...

Thanks again! It's way better than it was. Still taking steps backwards it seems, but I'll post the latest in another post.

Regarding the oil, I checked and level seems ok, but I do think the dipstick smelled like fuel. I'll try to remember to refer back to this when I get the carb taken care of. I gotta figure out how to proceed there.

The concensus seems to be that it is just wrong. Thanks to all for tips on where to potentially get a rebuild or a new one.

Fuel filter: It's a hard line going into the carb. Recommendation on where exactly to add one?

Thanks again, and happy 4th!
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Old 07-04-2018, 06:42 PM   #75
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Re: Help a NOOB - A continuing saga

Quote:
Originally Posted by geezer#99 View Post
Did you know that your mechanical advance in the distributor starts to come in near 800 rpm. At 950 rpm yours likely is. That means your 12 initial isnít likely accurate. Could be closer to 5 degrees.
You need to get the idle down near 700 rpm.

Have you fixed the flooding carb yet?
Any tuning you do is meaningless until you do.
I took a step backwards attempting this I think. When I lowered the idle the carb seemed to start sucking air/hissing sound. If I gave it throttle it went away, or if I covered it with my hands it went away and RPM went up. Even when I tried to adjust idle back up it continued to do this some.

My vacuum gauge was still connected and when it made the hissing/sucking sound it bounced around 15. If I put my hands over the carb it settled back to 20 and the rpm went up. I suppose this may just be another sign that the carb is messed up?

At the lower rpm I did readjust the timing. It looks like my advance kicks in around 950 or so. So it was close. But I put it at 12 at around 700 rpm, so hopefully accurate now.
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