Inflation and Taxation

[Shinysideup]

Originally Posted by cypressbog

So they take your cash first then you can appeal? I say good luck once they have your money it's gone forever.

True, I cant believe he gave them that! DOH!

[dmjlambert]

I think somebody with a lot of power and political influence needs to just get fed up with these DMVs that assess bogus values and actually press for prosecution of tax assessor/collector on criminal fraud and corruption charges. It would be better if the first case involved a truck brought from out of state, so that way the charges could be federal and more serious. If some tax assessor/collector actually went to jail over it in one state, there would probably be a national corruption cleansing that would straighten it all out. These corrupt local tax assessor/collectors are just about untouchable like the IRS. Unfortunately, most people with enough money and power to see it through probably couldn't feel the difference between $27.00 and $27,000.00, as it's all chump change to them, so they wouldn't realize there is any fraud or corruption going on to get pissed off about.

[RichardJ]

It's likely the DMV uses NADA as do most sellers who are looking for ridiculously high retail sale prices.
I don't believe NADA makes any effort to uncover actual sale prices. They look at listing prices and they look at Barrett Jackson, auction prices. NADA has no concern of the actual $$$ that changes hands in a private transaction and they could care less how drunk the auction bidders are. They have no interest in actual real world values.

>>KBB only goes back as far as 1992...<<
KBB gets most of its data from sale prices reported by car dealer sales. They consider that to be much more reliable info than reported private party sales.
Beyond 25 years the condition of the cars varies too much for KBB or anyone to just pull a number off a list of what other cars may or may not have sold for.

NADA seems to think all '67 chevy trucks,
Low Retail Value
This vehicle would be in mechanically functional condition, needing only minor reconditioning.

[HomeMadeSin]

Well, honestly $282 isn’t quite enough for me to bail on this just yet. I paid $500 for it originally. Then rented a U-Haul trailer to haul it from Denver to Savannah ($400 if memory serves). Then add diesel fuel expense, meals and hotels and I’m in it for a lot more than it’s worth already. But it was a good friend of mine that sold it and I pushed him to get it ready to haul and didn’t feel it was right to back out once I saw what I was in for. Also, I was planning to use it as a business vehicle, so the expenses could be written off (legitamately).

So, I will follow through on the appeal. I don’t know what others have experienced with an appeal of this sort, but it is clearly a cash grab. Not enough to take up arms against but certainly to fight for what is right. I genuinely want to see the overpaid, underworked and likely completely clueless rep that is supposed to visit my place and inspect the vehicle.

Now if they don’t follow logic the next step would be legal. Any GA lawyers here willing to take one for the team?!?

Z

[HomeMadeSin]

I did find some info via a quick search on-line:

I have done it twice, but not in Fulton.

What they do is charge the absolute top dollar value of the car, in show car condition. When you look at the valuation, you will see they are well above Edmunds, KBB and NADA.

You have to pay up front, then file your appeal with the tax assessor. When you file the appeal with the assessor, make sure to note every flaw, ding, scrape, non-functioning switch etc. If there is anything on the Carfax, include that as well.

The first time I had to wait for an agent or assessor to meet and look over the car. Took them a couple of weeks. Second time, I was able to have them look it over right away.

The assessor will submit the review to the tax board for review and if all goes well you will get your refund in about 45-60 days. While the idea is OK, the current execution stinks of a cash grab that allows them to take advantage of people not paying attention. The people that do catch it are forced to pay them the top value up front while they get around to giving you a fair valuation. Would love to know how much they net on the interest alone for these over charges.

I did get a refund both times, down to about what the true values were.

I do understand that some people were abusing the system and claiming they paid $100 for a car that was clearly worth $10K in some instances. Instead of going after the scammers, they decided instead to enact this clever little scheme.

If it pissed you off as much as it did me, then this the wonderful person you have to thank for it:

Rep. Tim Rice (R) Norcross

[cypressbog]

That's completely insane and unacceptable and I don't live in GA

[dsy1]

I have never understood taxes on used vehicle sales. The car or truck was taxed when it was first sold. A used transaction just moves the vehicle to a new owner, it does not by itself create any new value. A car that is sold five times in 10 years is taxed on value 5 times, a car with one owner for 10 years gets taxed once. I don't get it.

[Boog]

Originally Posted by dsy1

I have never understood taxes on used vehicle sales. The car or truck was taxed when it was first sold. A used transaction just moves the vehicle to a new owner, it does not by itself create any new value. A car that is sold five times in 10 years is taxed on value 5 times, a car with one owner for 10 years gets taxed once. I don't get it.

Excellent points!

[HomeMadeSin]

Originally Posted by dsy1

I have never understood taxes on used vehicle sales. The car or truck was taxed when it was first sold. A used transaction just moves the vehicle to a new owner, it does not by itself create any new value. A car that is sold five times in 10 years is taxed on value 5 times, a car with one owner for 10 years gets taxed once. I don't get it.

Agreed. Or is it just ‘greed’. Anyway, I think it is worse in VA. They have - as I recall - an annual personal property tax on vehicles that amounts to roughly 4% of FMV. Every damn year.

I’m sure other states have it just as bad but screw having to pay it over and over. I wasn’t much of a ‘taxation is theft’ kind of person, but I’m getting there....

[rechinca]

Sounds like Cali crap. My wife’s 1971 F250 (3/4 ton rating so they figure higher potential for heavy load taxes for highway maintenance) is $241/year. My 2004 Dodge 1/2 ton has a higher payload and is $60 cheaper/year. 1971 C10 is $122. States are getting good at finding ways to create more taxes on the vehicle hobby.

[Boog]

Well, as someone once said, "anything enjoyable in life is either illegal, immoral or fattening".
And your lawmakers are out to tax anything and everything they can, repeatedly in some cases, as in used car sales. That's just ridiculous. It's legal robbery is what it is.
A line from a movie said "a revolution every now and then can be a good thing". How about now?

[Garn3]

Same thing happen to me, I paid 25.00 for taxes here in Illinois. Recieved a bill about 2 months later of 1900.00 claimimg my truck is worth 35,000.00!

AND they hit me with late fees. Can’t call them on the phone. Long story short I paid 900.00 in taxes!

['68OrangeSunshine]

While I may have painted Arizona as a paradise -- I pay $31 a year for commercial plates on my '68 Stepside, and about $19 a year [when paid for 2 years in advance] for 1971 YOM plates on my '71 Jimmy -- evil dwarves in my state legislature have conspired to end that happy horsesh!t.
Starting Jan 1, 2019 all MVD re-registrations will have an added $34 tacked on to the usual fees. Vehicles registering for multiple years in advance, will pay $34 increments for each incremental year. The $34 is supposed to fund the Dept of Public Safety [Highway Patrol] . So where did the funds that were already allotted for the Highway Patrol go? The evil dwarves squandered them someplace else.

[El Dorado Jim]

Originally Posted by Boog

It's things like this that make me want to get mine registered now even in it's unfinished state but I have to show proof of insurance at that time too. I can't justify paying regs and insurance for a vehicle I can't regularly use yet.

you can get Hagerty insurance on your truck in the build stage,I did,it was dirt cheap and covers the truck from theft, fire,etc...

[65 GMC]

I'm in Kansas, I guess we have it good with tags and taxes on antique (35 years and older) vehicles. I have a 64 Chevelle 4dr and a 1966 Impala SS along with two mid 60's Chevy/GMC trucks. Anyway all we pay here is about 8.9% of the purchase price in sales tax along with about 85.00 to register it with an antique tag and 17.00 a year in property taxes. Then just 17.00 a year every year after that in personal property tax. I will admit, that I really felt it when I bought my Impala, not so much when I bought the Chevelle.

[flashed]

I guess I will see how bad things will be Wednesday , I just got home from Tennessee with a 97 Chevy Single cab dually . So much for saving on insurance , I dropped the insurance on a house and now adding a truck on .

[HomeMadeSin]

Interim update: I received the title, which is good. I also got a letter in the mail as well as an email from the assessors office. Here’s the text from the original email:

Hello Mr. Zellers:



We have received your recent motor vehicle appeal of value and submitted a letter to you dated January 4, 2019. You stated in the appeal the motor vehicle is not running. Since the motor vehicle is not running, you can submit your documentation to support your value by e-mail. We will need pictures of the four sides of the motor vehicle, mileage, estimates of repairs needed, and the bill of sale (if a recent purchase). This documentation may be submitted to this e-mail on or before January 23, 2019. Once the requested documentation is received, we will review and make a decision.



Should there be any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact this office.

I tried to strike a balance and offer to tow it to them (because I assume no shop would quote me based on pictures and I’d have to tow it to them anyway). I also indicated that I didn’t want to miss the initial impression upon seeing the truck

More to follow...

[saxart]

Originally Posted by HomeMadeSin

I tried to strike a balance and offer to tow it to them (because I assume no shop would quote me based on pictures and I’d have to tow it to them anyway). I also indicated that I didn’t want to miss the initial impression upon seeing the truck.

More to follow...

So you just want a title? (no tabs yet?) If it were me, I would pull a wheel or two off and put it up on blocks or some chunks of fire wood and take pics like that with the door off, the hood open, and missing some wheels.

Two can play this game......

[Metaldoc]

In Ontario Canada anything over 25 years old must be appraised by a licensed appraiser and certified by the MTO. They determine the value and you pay for all the process.

[HomeMadeSin]

Originally Posted by saxart

So you just want a title? (no tabs yet?) If it were me, I would pull a wheel or two off and put it up on blocks or some chunks of fire wood and take pics like that with the door off, the hood open, and missing some wheels.

Two can play this game......

Title, I have already. I’m just taking them to task on their Fair Market Value.

And I don’t have to play any games. The doors are off (one is crunched). The hood is off. There is no carb. There is no tailgate. There is no seat. One head cover is off. There is no passenger fender. Battery area rusted. Both rocker panels are rusted through. Gas tank needs to be replaced or flushed. Floor needs a patch. Other body work is required.

I don’t have to try to make it look rough. It is rough. If there is a Pictionary entry for rough, this is the poster child. And although $282 in taxes isn’t a concern per se, evaluating it at FMV of $28,200 is theft.

[garyd1961]

I paid $1500 for my truck about 14 years ago. It has always been valued at $500 by the tax office. In the last two years I have spent about $7000 on it, new motor , trans, exhaust, brakes, wheels and tires. It still looks pretty much the same on the outside. This year the value dropped to like $450 or something and I had to pay like $4 in taxes.
My cousin down the road has one just like mine and we joke about our carburetors are worth $500.

[bill3rail]

Damn! What a story. NY has not figured out this scam yet. Taxed once on bill of sale them you are good until the next owner pays the state the same tax on it's value.

Bill

[Seanext]

In NC anything older that 35 requires no yearly inspection. However, property taxes on fair market value every year. Tag and taxes on my 71 runs about 80.00 a year. The rub comes when you try and bring in vehicle over 35 years old from another state. When you try to get it titled in NC it has to be inspected by the DMV. Ran into a guy that had a 72 that title and VIN plate matched but the frame serial number didn't match. DMV said that he would have to apply for a bonded title which means you have to put up money for an agent hold for 6 months to make sure it is not posted some where as stolen and then he could only get a salvage title. Not sure the out come of that one.

[darrellyates]

I hope nobody in our state legislature is reading this...

However, Tennessee is a great place to live...

Yes, we pay higher than normal sales tax. No upper limitations on vehicle purchase price, you pay the full 9.25% I believe it is...

But then, in my county it's $85 a year to license it. If you have antique tags, you pay once and that's it.

No personal property taxes. And, they don't use the NADA or other obscene values to tax your vehicle with. I've always insisted on a bill of sale, that's correct and signed by the seller, and I've never been given any trouble about it. I usually have pictures on my phone if it's a junker.... And have never been bothered about it.

The only personal property taxes we pay are on real estate, and then only on valuation of the actual physical property (land and buildings, no contents)...

[HomeMadeSin]

Well, we have a verdict and I'm proud to state that the process worked. It may seem like a hassle (because it is) but it is done. I must admit the state appraisers were very quick and have been responsive. Perhaps the pictures were more powerful than I expected....



Z