Tf cooling

[bowt1ed]

Since I always get good info when casting the net, thought I would start a new thread on this one after reviewing several old ones. Looking for any/all recommendations in the cooling dept. for my 57, running a SBC 383 Stroker w/auto.

- Down flow or side flow aluminum?
- Best to run trans cooling through radiator then cooler, vice-versa, or cooler only?
- Push/pull fan size?

Thanks in advance! Cheers, Jim

[Rickysnickers]

I have a similar set up. I went with a Champion down flow radiator. I live in SoCal, so it gets pretty warm here, and I haven't been over 195 on the hottest day. I will be upgrading my torque convertor soon and purchased an additional trans cooler. It will be plumbed inline with the radiator. I searched, but don't remember which goes first, the rad or the cooler, or the other way around. Anyway, use both. I have an electric puller fan that came with the radiator.

[1project2many]

2 ton LCF radiator works for me.

Placing the radiator after the cooler helps ensure that trans fluid returning to the trans is not excessively cold.

[dsraven]

1project explained it the way I always plumb it in. I usually also use the type of aux cooler that has thermal protection for those cold days. the cooler bypasses if the fluid is too cold. HOWEVER, that is more for the cold climate dudes like us cold blooded Canadians, haha. if you check the online methods you will likely find that most recommend AFTER the rad cooler, so on the return line. below is a couple of pics that show the AFTER method but notice the one also has a thermostat to bypass if the fluid is too cold. the third one is from a 4x4 site, which is good to know because those transmissions get really hot when the guys are in a bog etc. notice that it goes to an aux cooler first, then the rad cooler then a fan cooled under tub (jeep body) cooler. that is serious trans cooling right there. the last one is from the eastwood site and is an instruction manual for their Derale trans cooler. it shows several methods and placement areas.
remember to check your trans type so you know which fitting on the trans is the outlet to the cooler. an inline trans filter can also be installed if you are using a used cooler or rad, especially if that used part sat around with no plugs in the connections. that way the possible debris from inside the old cooler will not go back to your trans and mess you up. that can be an issue with a vehicle that suffered a trans failure and got a rebuilt trans but the installer didn't replace the cooler or flush the cooler lines. all that crap from the failed trans goes directly back to the new trans and bingo, another failure coming right up. I also don't believe in a "flushed" plate style cooler, like a rad has inside, because I have taken a flushed cooler apart for a look and there is still crap in there stuck in the cooler plates. it's like the old Crisco cooking oil ads, it all comes back except one tablespoon. haha.

anyway, good luck. use good quality fittings, clamps and hose. you'll be fine


http://www.grumpysperformance.com/autotransf1.jpg

http://d9hhrg4mnvzow.cloudfront.net/...w0da000000.png

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...erdiagram2.jpg

http://www.eastwood.com/images/pdf/20245Q_inst.pdf

[1project2many]

dsraven is right on about re-using a plate cooler. Even without major failure there are cases where I will opt for new. The same is true for a fin and tube type that is "parallel flow." There is too much chance the cooler is not completely flushed and when it comes to the trans, garbage in = garbage out.

In my opinion it is difficult to "overcool" a 4L60 / 700R4. This isn't practically true, of course, but when it comes to sizing the cooler go big, bigger, and bigger again. I have never been disappointed with a large cooler on this transmission.

Regarding clamps and hoses: If you look under the hood of most vehicles today you will not see traditional hose clamps. On many cars you see "spring clamps." Although many people don't like these, they are often good. The official name is "constant tension clamps" and they will usually live up to it. Over time your hoses change. They harden and compress where they are clamped. With a traditional clamp the hose will eventually start to leak requiring the clamp to be retightened. A constant tension clamp can "auto-adjust" to changes.

If you have to use a screw type hose clamp, skip the ones that are available everyewhere and buy something worth your time and effort. The screw type clamps we grew up with have stamped holes in the center of a band that align with the tension screw. As tension increases the hose pushes up through these holes. The metal of the clamp will begin to cut the hose if more tension is applied. This can prevent you from putting enough "squeeze" on the hose to make a good seal.

The answer is to use a "Norma TORRO" type clamp. These clamps are often found on Eurpoean cars and are much better than the cheap hose clamps we are used to. In applications like a trans cooler or an oil cooler where hot oil loves to weep out under pressure, these clamps can apply much more clamping pressure without damaging the hose. They're not cheap but they are very good for long term reliability.

[dsraven]

another fairly good hose clamp for smaller hoses like these are the ones used in fuel injection. they are a solid piece of flat stock that bypasses itself, like overlaps, then has a screw and nut to tighten it up. no pic but you could google it.

[dsraven]

I would say put in the biggest rad you can fit in there, cross flow or standard, get a triple core if you can. get the biggest fan or set of fans you can get in there.try to incorporate some sort of shroud so the fan(s) can access the whole rad not just the area next to the fan blades. wire up the fan with a good relay and a safety over ride switch/relay for manual operation in case the normal relay or the temp switch fails. use a GM branded thermostat, not a cheapo because you will quickly regret that deicsion. install good rad hoses, not the corrugated fits all type and use coolant. not water because the inside of your engine will rust. grab a GM rad cap as well and try to incorporate an overflow catch can for the excess fluid spill over. a decent sized overflow reservoir. get a working temp guage as well and check it regularly until you get to know your engine at least. I have also wired in idiot lights for guys that have temp guages because sometimes you just wanna drive and not be checking all the time. if a light comes on you will probably be drawn to look at the guages and the holy crap brainwave will tell you to hit the manual fan over ride switch, right before it says "good thing you installed that switch and idiot light". on my rail buggy I installed a low oil pressure light on the dash. it was actually a marker light for a semitrailer. you couldn't miss it if it came on.

[bowt1ed]

Thanks for all the feedback thus far.

[Speedbumpauto]

Agree with DSRAVEN, especially on a manual override switch. Handy to have. I have a big block and use a two row down flow with 1 1/4 tubes and in AZ it will still get hot. I never use the rad cooler for auto trans as the last thing I need is hot oil passed through the coolest part of the coolant and. like mentioned, those OD transmissions do make heat. Another thing not often discussed is under hood temp. It's crazy in these trucks as the air has no where to go due, IMO, to the large flat firewall and big old bubble hood that traps the air. I'm contemplating some type of neat louver or screen to my inner fenders to help facilitate that problem. I bet engine temp could drop 10 degrees or more if one could get an efficient air flow around the engine. The BBC doesn't help either....but it is fun.

[1project2many]

I'm contemplating some type of neat louver or screen to my inner fenders to help facilitate that problem.

It helps if you can make a low pressure area under the engine. An air dam can make a big difference if you don't already have one.

[dsraven]

I have wondered about a vent into the cowl area. there are lots of trucks driving around that have disabled the cowl vents inside the truck so you wouldn't have to worry about engine bay fumes inside. the big upright window would likely push air into the engine bay and from there it could possibly be directed to vent the under hood area. seems like a lot of work for the possible non outcome though. I have seen a few hoods with louvers cut in but I am not a louver guy so it didn't appeal to me.
I have wondered as well whether a crossflow rad would possibly work better because the rad support can be modified to have a larger rad opening for more air flow. it would affect the underhood look for sure. if you are trying for the old truck style.
back in the day I made a few V8 vega's. they run hot as well due to the tight fit and normally have modified engine plus a big hot set of headers under there to complicate matters further. I would install the biggest thickest rad I could find and try to mount the aux trans cooler in the air flow but as far out of the rad's way as possible so as not to disrupt the laminar air flow into the rad. sure couldda used electric fans back then. modern cars have airflow director panels and foam strips/rubber flap style seals around the rads. maybe something like that could be incorporated into the build as well.
just some thoughts.

[Speedbumpauto]

I hadn't thought of the air dam idea. It's already pretty low but now I'm going to have to put it in the air and look for ideas. Maybe a flexible one like the Corvettes have.

[dsraven]

if you place the air dam correctly it will ram air into the rad area and also create a low pressure area under the truck. win win.
a trip to the wrecker on a reconnaissance mission could be in your future, looking for a flexible donor that will fit. if not, maybe a trip to the plastics shop for some sheet material, or some screen and fiberglass?

[1project2many]

I have wondered about a vent into the cowl area. there are lots of trucks driving around that have disabled the cowl vents inside the truck so you wouldn't have to worry about engine bay fumes inside.

Years ago I spaced the back of a hood up 1" on a TF to help cool a 350. The result was slightly improved cooling at idle but no noticeable improvement when travelling. Parts at the rear of the engine compartment seemed cooler than parts at the front after stopping which was odd. I decided maybe I was imagining the temp difference but once I learned that the base of the windshield tended to be a high pressure area I realized maybe the air from the cowl was moving down through the engine compartment and out, and this may even have prevented some air from moving through the radiator.

Putting some type of vents or louvers into the fenderwell opening into the wheel area could help. I'd have to sit and think to try and picture airflow in that area with a fairly stock bodyline. My hunch is that the movement of the tire will create pressure behind the headlamp openings so any vent would work better low and behind the tire.