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Old 01-22-2018, 04:18 PM   #26
dennislbrooks
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

This is good stuff ----- we get knowledge and experience from many. Mostly the K10/20/30 guys want the hooks as it was an option --- factory and dealer I think.
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Old 01-22-2018, 04:35 PM   #27
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

The prevailing issue for me is 'toughness'....with the strength being a strong second....and noting that steel is definitely a better choice than cast.

The toughness created by forging has to do with the shaping of the inherent grain structure within the steel. This 'shaping' is the forging or 'pounding' process put into a piece of steel through the impact of several 'dies' that bring the steel to its final shape.
Sort of like the way a tree branch develops its natural strength, despite its length, by forming itself over time....and that is why, by simple example... you can hang a swing on a tree branch 8-10 ft out...and you could never do that on a cantilevered 4x4 which would snap off at the mount point vs. 'flexing' like the tree branch.

here is quick informative youtube video of the way forging works on a piece of steel...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeSCjRaV9Og

This 'toughness' allows the steel to withstand 'impact' as well as load....unlike casting....and you could easily see 'impact' on a towing operation if you had slack in a tow chain that suddenly pulled tight and 'slammed' (or impacted) the towhook.
That cast one would instantly break off...with all sorts of damage occurring to possible both people and equipment.

As a result of these different processes, you can take a cast item and hit it with a hammer and it will literally explode....a piece of steel, particularly forged steel...will 'hang in there'. Just like if you hit a cast cylinder head or engine block with a 5lb sledge it will snap in half....but if that was a 3" or 4" square 'steel' bar....you would hit it all day and do nothing but wear your sledge hammer (and your arms lol) out.

Anything relating to lifting, towing, etc needs to have this inherent extra element in it....which a casting never has.

All good
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Last edited by Coley; 01-22-2018 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 01-22-2018, 04:36 PM   #28
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

It is better to have them (forged originals) and not need them than the other way around.
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Old 01-22-2018, 05:55 PM   #29
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennislbrooks View Post
Haha, I do not think we are after an argument. But let's say GM builds them to twice capacity as needed -- even tho they will not say publicly. 66% may not look out of line to some.

I have worked on a plow crew, line crew, and coal miner. I have never seen a hook break -- tow or line - probably someone has. I have seen compression sleeves and cables break. Hooks were all probably steel. The pull loads sometimes exceeded the equipment weight --like a dozer stuck in mud with a teco cable plow 40" in the ground ---look out and go hide.


Agree most are for decoration now. I would use both my oem hooks for a pull just because I do not want to damage the frame.

So $400 ---wow -- $200 may be more in line --dunno.

Unfortunately, I know a person who works big rig recovery with those huge dual boom recovery units who had a hook give out while they were pulling a heavy loaded rig out of a ditch near Baltimore. The tension on the cable caused the cable to whip nastily when the hook gave out and nearly severed his right arm off just below the shoulder. Investigation revealed the cable slid in the hook during the pull to a thinner point in the hook body that caused the failure.
I am glad you have not seen that kind of failure...It doesn't happen often, but..
As murphy's law had it....
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:19 PM   #30
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

By the way the $400.00 is starting bid...
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:56 PM   #31
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

The biggest risk by far is that these get into circulation and resold and folks end up buying without knowing they are cast. I would not want to be on the other end of the tow rope/chain when they break. Will be a slingshot right back toward the vehicle or whatever is being pulled out. This is a safety risk and should not be allowed to be reproduced like this unless the disclaimer is ON THE PART so there is never any confusion.
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:25 PM   #32
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

For what it is worth, the listing says they are made from A536 iron which looks to be different than simple gray iron used for things like engine blocks. One site defines it as ductile iron and describes it as this:

Ductile Iron
Standard Specifications Characteristics Applications
• ASTM A395 & ASME SA395: ferritic ductile iron pressure-retaining castings for
use at elevated temperatures
• ASTM A439: austenitic ductile iron castings
• ASTM A476 & ASME SA476: ductile iron castings for paper mill dryer rolls
• ASTM A536 & SAE J434: ductile iron castings
• ASTM A571 & ASME SA571: austenitic ductile iron castings for
pressure-containing parts suitable for low-temperature service
• ASTM A874: ferritic ductile iron castings suitable for low-temperature service
• ASTM A897: austempered ductile iron castings
Several grades for both
strength & ductility; high
strength, ductility & wear
resistance; contact fatigue
resistance; ability to
withstand thermal cycling;
and production of fracture critical
components.
Steering knuckles; plow
shares; gears; automotive &
truck suspension components;
brake components; valves;
pumps; linkages; hydraulic
components; and wind
turbine housings.

The whole document can be found here: http://www.afsinc.org/files/images/iron%20alloys.pdf

My point is that this lists this kind of iron as being used for things such as steering knuckles and brake components so it must be pretty tough and not entirely brittle like gray iron can be. The description specifically says it is used for fracture critical applications. Not making an argument for or against the tow hooks just offering this information for what it may be worth to add to the discussion.

Last edited by Rich69shortfleet; 01-23-2018 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:53 PM   #33
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

Ductile has graphite to eliminate brittleness
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:57 PM   #34
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

forum news travels fast

previous description;

Quote:
1967-1972 Chevrolet Tow hooks molded after the originals. Made of cast iron asme a536 (65-45-12) or equivalent. Powder coated satin black. Comes with beefy 5/8's grade 8 bolts, washers, lock washers, and nuts.

Feel free to ask any questions. Please no returns.

current description updated this afternoon;

Quote:
1967-1972 Chevrolet Tow hooks molded after the originals. Made of ductile cast iron asme a536 (65-45-12) or equivalent. Powder coated satin black. Comes with beefy 5/8's grade 8 bolts, washers, lock washers, and nuts.

Feel free to ask any questions. Please no returns.

Product sold as is and for decorative purposes only.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:43 PM   #35
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

He must have been monitoring this thread. 8-)
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:49 PM   #36
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennislbrooks View Post
He must have been monitoring this thread. 8-)
Probably a board member too
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:04 PM   #37
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

Will a warning in an ebay add protect the manufacturer when they fail, and there is NO WARNING LABEL ON THE PRODUCT?

Unless that warning is actually stamped into the hooks, I would say it is still a HUGE liability.

Whatever, I'm a "D" ring guy anyways.
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:47 PM   #38
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

^^^ LoL, didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings but since you mentioned it first, d-rings and snap hooks are the only way to go!
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:28 PM   #39
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

Finally got home, got a chance to look a little closer than on my tiny phone. Isn't it some sort of copyright infringement to leave the GM part # on them? Back to the "once they are in circulation" comment from one of our very keen members - how would you even know what you have if you buy these 5 years down the road? How could you differentiate between original GM and these unless you could look at a stack of pictures of originals like we have at our disposal here on the board? Yes, many use them for decoration. Then again, many folks trucks are actually used as decoration (I don't get to drive mine nearly as much as I'd like to) but that's not the point - this really DOES kinda bug me the more I think about it. It is a safety hazard - or, at the very least, an unknown capability, when using these rather than a real set. If there are no specs associated/listed with them (and we'd need to know the original hook specs as well), there's no way to know what you're dealing with - that would be like Coker re-popping a 10 ply HD tire with all the original markings yet only making it with 4 plies... I'm glad I bought a set of hooks before the market was flooded with fakes! At least I know if I do use them I won't decapitate the gopher that crosses between my truck and whatever I'm pulling out of a ditch. I wouldn't hesitate to use mine if the need or opportunity popped up, it's what they are there for.

Last edited by jocko; 01-22-2018 at 10:42 PM.
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:41 PM   #40
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

Yep, Agree with Jocko. I too have a pair set back for my 67. But this is not just about the hooks, some are degrading the value (and the unique and rare parts) of these trucks for money only on reproductions. There will be a time there are very few of the originals left and it will be very difficult to know which ones are the real thing. VERY SAD!!! Russ
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:00 AM   #41
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

A lot of great information here on these aftermarket hooks, but after reading through the whole thread, I guess I'll never own a set basically because of the price. I wouldn't spend that much on the real deal, after all, they're just tow hooks. secondly, every ones concerned on strength of the hooks. If I were to spend that much on them I'd never have a chain on them from fear of scratching the finish. Also, I'm sure they're stronger than the frame of the truck which would suffer more damage than the hooks would. What about the hooks at the other end of the chain on the other guys truck or tractor who's pulling you out. Any one going to check those hooks to make sure they're satisfactory? You're most likely going to use straps for pulling your nice truck out of a ditch or on a trailer, and I'm sure those hooks, [ way over priced or not] will work just fine. Boy am I going to get beat up over this, LOL. and NO, I don't know who's selling them. Joe
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:05 AM   #42
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

I have them on my truck to use. I have factory hooks in particular because I am a stickler for detail and oem parts. I had a standing ad in Pickups & Panels In Print for K/20 hubcaps and tow hooks 25+ years ago. No new interest here.

Personally, I feel it would be funny to see people not get worked up over such an insanely overpriced part that would be only good for decoration. It's stupid enough that people pay over $400 for the real hooks. This seller doen't seem to understand why the originals cost what they do and that none of those reasons are there for repops. Pure greed and I hope they have to eat them. Yeah, I get worked up over greed... a lot. I hate it.
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:19 AM   #43
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

there was a lengthy discussion on a facebook group about these very same hooks....a lot of the same kind of comments and information about cast vs forged as well....... and apparently one person knew the guy that is having these made and selling them....

that could be the reason he edited the listing...... to reflect the "decorative" addendum....there is a tremendous liability issue with them....and he sells mostly comic books on eBay...?

As Rich69 pointed out..... ductile iron is stronger and more malleable than plain grey iron....but nowhere near the strength of forged steel....
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:23 AM   #44
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

Why pay $400 for a decorative hook when you could pay a little more for the real deal....
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:46 PM   #45
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

there may be enough OE hooks to go around but unfortunately they're all owned by three people

so no doubt why folks are out there trying to repop this stuff for the rest of the folks that didn't start hoarding rare items 40 years ago..

this particular guy may not have it completely right, but it's hypocritical to berate him for doing exactly what every classic restoration parts house in the country is doing..

as for the cast, forged, etc. argument, who are you going to sue when the OE hook breaks, GM?

anyone that has a clue about towing or recovery knows how to rig everything with failure in mind and keep personnel out of harms way..

and nothing is guaranteed even with a weight rating from ANSI, OSHA, ASME, DOT, FMVSS, etc..

shackles and d-rings are typically load rated while hooks are typically not.. keeping that in mind will generally keep folks out of trouble..

so back to this guy, he just needs to delete the cast number and forge them and sell for full function like hotcakes..

this guy broke the ice, give it a few months and LMC and the like will have these in a catalog soon enough..
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:00 PM   #46
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

I certainly don't want to personally disparage anybody with respect to this product.
I admire anyone who has the nuggets to take on a business endeavor along these lines.

This particular item tho' is a very, very tricky product because it relates seriously to human safety.
In that, it is much different than say....building am/fm radios, or reproduction antennas or new grills or dash pads.
There should be a disclaimer that stays with the part constantly....built right into it.
Again...You can't warn away liability from a legal/engineering perspective.
You can however, mitigate or limit your liability by ensuring you have taken several or numerous steps at all phases to ensure the safety of the users.
That would include removing the GM logo...and casting 'Not approved for towing or lifting' right into the part.
It would also be to include testing data of the part...done by an approved/certified (independent) test facility through many iterations, etc and this paperwork would need to be on file and available.

That said.....I would bet dollars to donuts that GM has not approved this part and if/when they get wind of it, it won't end well for the person making them.
They, like most automotive manufacturers go to great lengths to limit and mitigate their liability....they wouldn't pass this part or approve it, I'm quite sure.
When they hear about this kind of stuff....they get pretty hot and heavy.....and particularly if it relates to human safety.

Regardless...I still admire anyone who has the moxy to endeavor in business and try to get ahead so hopefully this guy reviews this particular part and perhaps finds a better or different way through this.

All good
Coley
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:25 PM   #47
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

If worried about safety, suck it up and get 10,000lb hooks for about 50 bucks.not like it'll ruin your truck,,,,,
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:27 PM   #48
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

Just like any other part, price goes up and a guy starts repopping it. I donít blame the guy one bit. People are paying insane prices of course someone is going to try and make a buck...itís the American way
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:41 PM   #49
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by harpo231 View Post
If worried about safety, suck it up and get 10,000lb hooks for about 50 bucks.not like it'll ruin your truck,,,,,


10,000lb rating, $20 for the pair at Amazon. I have two just like this up front and one under the rear bumper.

Can't get the Amazon link to work. They are sold by Red Hound Auto.
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:55 PM   #50
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Re: New replica tow hooks!

More ductile iron usages ---- pintle ??? 9000 lb tongue weight rating 2" shank 45000 trailer weight. Why is this not forged heat treated steel?

https://smile.amazon.com/BUYERS-Swiv...oks+for+trucks

Not trying to sell the ebay hooks - just wanting to know how tough they are. If they are what they say they are -- may be tougher than we think.


I say get the seller to test them with certified results. Can you find testing results from GM hooks?
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