New teritory for me. Need some help :(

[Rede]

I took the plunge, sold my car, and decided to buy what I thought was a turn key trail ready truck...but the more I look, the more things I find that need to be adressed. :S

Truck specs:
1980 chev 1/2 ton 4X4 (obviously)
350/np205
"old school" D44, no manual hubs, "old school locker" (yaaaa I have no idea...)
14bolt 10.5" FF with limted limited slip or posi (both diffs have 4.10's)
6" suspension lift
39.5" x 18" boggers (front pair are 16.5" rims, rear are 15" rims)

I was told that the front shocks were toast and were tossed but he said any Rancho 5000 type shock for a 6" lift should work...but Rancho doesn't offer a 6" lift shock, so I don't know what to do and the parts stock is asking me for a part number.......
Will any brand of 6" lift shock work or do I need the specific brand to match the rest of the installed lift? If so, how cna I tell what brand of lift I have?
(I know very little about lift kits)

He said there is also a modified pair of rear shackles (they have a 1/4" piece of steal use as a brace) for a shackle flip to get rid of the blocks in the back and it'll help with the pinion angle.
However, I've never installed/removed a shackle before...

Do I lift the rear end, use jackstands on the frame, let the rear diff hang, punch the rivets out after removing the heads and simply bolt these other shackles...? or is there more that needs to be done so I'm not catching a leaf sping in the teeth or pulling my hair out after hours of stuggling?

Will I have to shorten my driveshaft if the pinion is moved up and forwad slightly?

Do I need to flip the front at the same time?


Finding a local (northern Alberta) chev/gm Dana60 front diff on Kijiji is getting me no-where.
The only one I found is $2400 and doesn't want to seperate the pair.
He's spent 3K into the rear diff and 2k into the front. New everything, locked, cocked and and ready to wheel.
Is there anything else I can use that's strong enough while keeping my cost as low as possible?



Lastly, the stock 350 seems very under powered for the larger tires (barely enough power to stay in third on the backroads) so I'm going to install the 99 vortec 454 I have into this truck as with this cam: http://www.competitionproducts.com/G...roductinfo/M1/
When I contacted the company about the cam, they recommended I go with a set of 454HO-502 valvesprings.

However, I read on another forum:

"Be aware that you will need two sets (16 total pieces) of valve rotator eliminator shims; and that you may need MINOR grinding on the intake guide-to-spring seat radius in order to get the shims to drop all the way into the spring pockets.
The grinding of the valve guides is SO INCREDIBLY MINOR that a sixth-grader with adult supervision could do it.
Either way, it's going to be TOTALLY OBVIOUS. One set of guides (the exhausts???) is pressed into the head casting. There is NO problem getting the rotator eliminators to fully seat, because there is no radius at the bottom of the guide where it meets the spring pocket--the material of the head is actually scalloped away. The other guides are a machined part of the head casting, and two guides on each of my heads (as in--NOT all of them!) needed to be touched with a Dremel to remove a burr preventing the rotator from fully seating in the spring pocket. If the rotator FULLY seats--you don't need to grind."

Sadly, I have no idea what he meens...both terminology and description.
Can someone break this down for me into lame-man's terms?

Pics with some lables would really help me understand so I'm not screwing up a perfectly good set of heads.


And yes, I'm a total chicken for not diving into this stuff and learning the hard way!

Thanks for your help

[motormilitia]

--As for shocks, you might try something like this:

http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kits...&t_pn=SUP85150

4WheelParts has quite a selection of brands if you don't like Superlift.

-- For the shackles, you've got the idea. I would loosen the spring bolt, then lift the rear of the truck enough to slide out the bolt, then lift it the rest of the way up and do as you described (punch rivets, etc) Shouldn't need to lengthen drive shaft. And no front flip. Just the back.

-- And lastly, the cam. What they are referring to grinding is the area highlighted here: (notice the faint red line)



**Note: the seat shown is for the exhaust valve but you get the idea.

[motormilitia]

And as far as a D60, it's a needle in the haystack search for one that's less than $1000 in decent shape. Around here (NW WA), they go for around $1000-$1500 in stock working order.

[Rede]

Thanks for the info!

Before I order any shocks, how can I varify what size of lift I have?
There are blocks in the rear if that helps, but I don't want to just go off of what the seller told me incase he was mistaken...

Will any 6" lift shock work for me?
I'm going to try asking at two more local places but thye're probably going to ask what the part number is for the lift in my truck...if I knew that I wouldn't be standing at the counter.
Otherwise, that link description sounds pretty good. I want something that's trail capable, won't bottom out on the rusts and bumps or bounce me off the roof (that REALLY hurts with a hat that has the button on top!!), yet won't ride like an empty 3ton around town.


I'll have to check to see if there's a front stabilizer shock, but I have a feeling there isn't one.
Will this be an issue?



For the head work;

Do I need to just round the lip on that area, or take them down flush to the base of the seat?

Do I need to remove the heads to do this?



And just to make sure I have all seals, gaskets, head bolts (don't know if these are re-usable?), ect, ect...

What all am I going to need from start to finishe when I start this swap?
Is there a "GenIV BBC cam swap kit" that I should look at that includes everything I'll need?





I do know of a guy with a complete valve train off of a GenVI 502 who swapped in a whole new setup for racing...
Springs, pushrods, retainers, rockers, ect, ect.

Would any advantage or of use to me if I can get it all fairly reasonable?

I don't see much sence in buying a bunch of stuff if I'm not using 80% of it, or there's nothing to gain in doing so.
Just trying to stretch my $$$ for other items that need attention like eveyone else


Thanks again for the help

[motormilitia]

What I do is measure the rear block and if the truck sits level, then I would assume that's the lift size. But the front springs should have a part # and the 4wheelparts website has individual springs for sale with P/Ns if you need verification. I think the shocks are listed for 4-6 inches of lift.

All lifts will make the truck bouncy and everyone has an opinion about which is softer, etc. but the difference has always been negligable to me. As for hitting your head on big bumps, I just buckle up

Most front diffs from 70ish on had steering stabilizers stock so yours should have one. You can also buy an aftermarket kit with a stock replacement or dual setup for not much $$. But I have never had much of a wobble problem with the stock one with >38" tires.

On the heads, the eliminators will either seat all the way under the spring or not. If they dont then you just have to take off material until they do. You will have to have the heads off to replace the valve springs. Then you need a head gasket set to re-install them. If you pick a cam that works with stock springs, you won't have to take the heads off OR grind anything...

If you can get a motor / heads already setup, go for it. Less time working on the truck and more time driving.

[motormilitia]

Also, in order to do the cam swap with replacing the springs, you need a head gasket set and timing set. You will be pulling the intake, heads, timing cover, radiator. Then dis-assembling the heads to install new valve springs, and re-installing all.

If you buy a cam that doesn't require springs, you will just be pulling the intake manifold, valve covers, and timing cover and also radiator. So you would need an intake gasket set, valve cover set, and timing set.

[OrrieG]

Originally Posted by motormilitia;4543034-- And lastly, the cam. What they are referring to grinding is the area highlighted here: (notice the faint red line)

[IMG

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x126/booty91gst/0710ch_07_zfirst_engine_build1.jpg[/IMG]

**Note: the seat shown is for the exhaust valve but you get the idea.

Am I missing something here. Wouldn't it be easier to champher the part that slips over the valve guide? Why can't they just manufacture a shim with the right inside diameter and configuration?

[Rede]

Hmmm...the head work doesn't sound super hard, just a bit more involved then a simple cam swap.

There was a guy here who had a 177 BBC blower kit for sale for around 1800 which would eliminate the cam swap and likely make a bit more oomph.
But this is going to be a year round DD an I'm not sure how that kinda setup would like -50F temps.
Not sure if he's flexable on the price though as it's deffinately out of my budget.

I'll plug away and the little things I can do on the truck and think more on what to do with this motor...

I hear rumors of +4C for Sunday so that's certainly going to help motivate me
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[MrBeast]

Rede, I am going to take a moment here and pick your plans apart a little bit.

You sound very eager, and there is nothing wrong with that, but for a minute you should take a step back and determine if this truck is right for you.

Here are some things to consider, 1. It has mismatched tires/wheels front to rear, from what I gather the truck is a 1/2 ton with 38's very very bad combination. Expecially once you add the extra 300 or so lbs that 454 is going to put over your front axle. That Dana 44 is going to be very very short lived.

You are planning on using this truck as a driver, it sounds to me though like it has had some unknown work done on it, now granted I am not sure what kind of condition the truck is in because I have not seen it, but the warning signs of a cobbled togeather truck are there.

As well with a 6" lift, 38's wont fit with out some trimming or a body lift.

The Vortec Big Block is a good motor, but here is the issue with what you are wanting to do, the engine has non adjustable valvetrain, and for what you are wanting to do, you will have to do the conversion.

You can get conversion studs that are 3/8" on one side, and 7/16" on the other easy enough, and then you will need a set of rocker arms.

As well the Vortec has injector problems and you will want to upgrade them. The parts will cost you about 760.00

Going to the larger cam is also going to cause issues with your computer. you will need to have it tuned.

In your position I think your best bet would be to find a good running driving 4x4 pickup that has been well maintained, see if you can find a 1 ton, there are plenty out there, also you can get a dually and convert it to single rear wheel.

I started out doing what you are wanting to, it led to a lot of broken 1/2 ton parts, you can still break the 1 ton parts, but not as fast or as often.

I bet you can find a nice 1 ton pickup for less than 5 grand that runs good enough to drive, that will have a good body, in which is worth putting your time and money into.

If I was in your shoes, that is what id do, then id take that 454, get it rebuilt, get the adjustable valvetrain put in it, and then id put it in the truck and have it all tuned up. This would leave you with a very nice truck that got somwhat reasonable gas mileage.

When it comes to lifting your truck, you need to check out Off Road Design and DIY4X, they have the shackle reversal kits, and you can see how much the stuff costs.

[motormilitia]

Originally Posted by OrrieG

Am I missing something here. Wouldn't it be easier to champher the part that slips over the valve guide? Why can't they just manufacture a shim with the right inside diameter and configuration?

Nope, not missing anything. They should fit in theory and design without grinding, but trying to fit something in between the spring and the seat / guide is tough to do as there isn't much room and sometimes casting irregularities can cause it not to fit.

[Rede]

I had someone else point out the mis-matched tires, however they both rotate 465 in one mile according to TSL's site so they shouldn't cause binding.
Fenders have been trimed, too far in some spots as you can see the inner fender peeking out.
These tires however aren't going on the truck again until I can find a Dana60 front diff and only for wheelin on the weekends.
I have 33"x10.5" kuhmo KL71's for the daily driving and they'll be used for the meentime on the trails fo now.

The 454 already has a Performer 2.0 carb intake on it and all the EFI parts have been removed. I re-used an Accel distributor with the oem brass gear machined and installed. And I bought a used holley 650 double pumper and I'll use either the new Holley fuel pump in my garage or a barely used Mallory pump. (I haven't looked up the specs to see which would be better)
Flowtech headers are also going to be ordered...if I ever get a quote.

The motor has only 136,000km on it, no signs of oil leaking (checked front/rear seals and heads/valve covers are still very clean), the intake and TB were also pretty clean inside. Pushrods didn't seem to have any varnish either from what could see and were still straight with no marks.


I'll admit that the truck does have hookey work that wasn't finished like the rear shackle robots being ground off on one side, but compaired to what's available locally to me, it's shape is par with everything else available.

I'll upload some pics this weekend, maybe tomorow if I have time.

Guess I'm just tired of watching my buddies havin a blast while I'm sitting around home, forced to watch tv with the wife...
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[Zoomad75]

38" tires on a trail truck is supreme overkill. If you are doing in the mountains the climbing on steep shelf road trails with tall tire and tall lift makes an already tense time even more. The width gets pushed out and the overall "tippy" feeling ramps up. On narrow shelf tails most are a little wider than a jeep, going wider limits where you can go safely. I'm running 35's on my K5 and on shelf trails here in Colorado I'm sometimes riding the edge with the opposite side riding on the side slope just to keep it on the trail.

6" of lift with 35-36" tires is a good setup for a trail rig. The D44 can survive with the 454 if you beef it up a little with alloy shafts and a careful right foot when using 35-36" tires. The existing 4.10 gearing is more suited to the smaller tires too.

[Rede]

No mountain trails here... Bush, a few creeks, muskeg and soft grassy swamp areas are our local surroundings.

Jasper is the closest real moutainous area would be grande cache or Jasper.
GC is about three hours away and Jasper is about four or five. (it's also a national park)
those areas would probably be very close to what you have in colorado...
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[Zoomad75]

Then rock the 38's then. You'll need all the help you can get in the wet/muddy stuff.

[Rede]

That's what's it's sitting on now, but that's just so I could move the other wrecks around in my driveway.

I'm working on an email for DIY4x.com too about propper lift.
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[csb#356]

Are you sure the rear end is a 14 bolt, because I've heard that a 15 inch rim will not fit over the bigger brakes that are on that axle, but then again thats just what I've heard. Also as long as the tires are the same height the size of the rim doesn't really matter, except that it will look a little goofy. And am i reading it correct that you have full time hubs on your dana 44 and you have a 205?

[Rede]

I know the rims are the usual white spokes but they do have a "deep dish" look...maybe that's the secret...?
(I can tell you that the 15" rims don't clear the brakes on the d44...ask me how I know lol)

yup far as I can tell it's a np205 and dana44 that uses the ubolts on the front yoke. No manual hubs to lock.
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[csb#356]

hmmm. the last guy must have takin some axles from a 70s 3/4 ton and threw em under there. The full time hubs won't hurt the transfer case if you leave it in 2 wheel drive but it does defeat the purpose of the part time transfer case.

[Redcap]

Originally Posted by Rede

I know the rims are the usual white spokes but they do have a "deep dish" look...maybe that's the secret...?
(I can tell you that the 15" rims don't clear the brakes on the d44...ask me how I know lol)

yup far as I can tell it's a np205 and dana44 that uses the ubolts on the front yoke. No manual hubs to lock.
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It is easy to make a 15" rim clear a Dana 44s brakes. Just takes a little grinding.

[Rede]

Originally Posted by Redcap

It is easy to make a 15" rim clear a Dana 44s brakes. Just takes a little grinding.

True that.
I already read up on fitting a 15" on a d60
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[Rede]

Originally Posted by csb#356

hmmm. the last guy must have takin some axles from a 70s 3/4 ton and threw em under there. The full time hubs won't hurt the transfer case if you leave it in 2 wheel drive but it does defeat the purpose of the part time transfer case.

I'm guessingthats where the 10.5 in the rear came from too as he told me the stock 10bolt blew up when he bought it with 38's on it...
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[csb#356]

Well it doesn't sound like you have to bad of a mixture of parts. I've definately seen worse. I wouldn't give up on the dana 44, they can be a plenty strong axle and I have seen many turn 38" tires, if not more,. Especially while you run the small block it will be fine, and just runnin around a swamp through the mud, you generally break stuff when you have traction, in mud you usually don't. ask yourself how hard are you really going to wheel this truck? Most people that go dana 60 do it because the 4 wheel drive magazines say you need one and it is usually overkill. Don't get me wrong I would love to overbuild all my vehicles but only you can decide if it is worth it.

[Rede]

Originally Posted by csb#356

Well it doesn't sound like you have to bad of a mixture of parts. I've definately seen worse. I wouldn't give up on the dana 44, they can be a plenty strong axle and I have seen many turn 38" tires, if not more,. Especially while you run the small block it will be fine, and just runnin around a swamp through the mud, you generally break stuff when you have traction, in mud you usually don't. ask yourself how hard are you really going to wheel this truck? Most people that go dana 60 do it because the 4 wheel drive magazines say you need one and it is usually overkill. Don't get me wrong I would love to overbuild all my vehicles but only you can decide if it is worth it.

while must of the places we go are softer, there are also some technical areas, massive ruts, some rough creek crossings, ect...
I'm afraid that if I drop a front tires into a rut while turning, I'll be walking home...that and I don't have a spare one kickin around.

I was told the front has a locker in it as well.
I don't know if he ment is been welded or maybe something like a full posi unit...

Is that going to be a factor?
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[csb#356]

It will get you better traction, as far as making it weaker or stronger I don't really know but I don't think it will have much of an affect. As far as the axle, its really your call man, if your wallet can handle it then absolutely do it, but I would advise you to take it out to a trail a couple times before you drop the cash on the dana 60. Especially if your 44 already has a locker in it, that will save you more cash.

[Rede]

Well my wallet is always on the light side which has me playing chiken. : \

but I have wheeled these tires (the 33's) on my other truck which had an open 10bolt with no issues and a few times I wasn't so nice to it..

I'll have to get a front driveshaft made as th one he threw in the back of the box is too short and the one from a automatic was too long.
Then I'll see how the truck handles on the trails with the smaller tires before attempting the larger ones....I'd be a damn liar though if I told you I wasn't really tempted already lol
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