aftermarket sniper install problems

[SunSoaked]

Same scenario here.

[sweetk30]

here is a price list of the basics not all the tiny stuff just the meat and bones .

sniper with fuel pump kit $1260.00
at the time i purchased timming control would have set me back $400-$500 bucks with the required parts .

so there is $1626-$1726 just in the main parts for it .

now a edelbrock it pro-flo 4 is $1795.99 for a 1986-older sbc head style engine.
WITH dist and full timming control .

what ever kit you need a coil and some od's and ends .

and yes the pro-flo 4 dosn't have a fuel pump in the kit cause they found lots of customers didnt need it as they already had efi pumps already so they passed on the savings of the kit with no pump parts . also pro-flo 4 can be deadhead or return style fuel system = 1 less fuel line if you wish .

pro-flo 4 is already progressive linkage for better street driving use = less stiff throttle ( sniper is 1:1 and STIFF even with extention ) . plus yes you can do progressive with sniper but you then have to do full tunning your self .

sniper hand held dies you can still drive but no custom tunning / data logging problems until new unt shows up . edelbrock kit uses blue tooth chip and talks to most phones and tablets from about anyplace . . . so way more options .

i am sure there is other stuff but the main parts all add up to a better purchase i thing just comparing the options and included parts side by side in the edelbrock kit .

these are just my opinions and use this as a tool in your own research . . . good luck and most important have fun !

[bluex]

Ive been following this thread as I have a Sniper as well and I'm pretty happy with it. It isnt a perfect system and I've had issues with it too but most of mine were caused by me. I have roughly 4500 miles or so on it this year including the entire power tour with no problems. It's still much better than a carb imo and I dont ever want to swap back if I don't absolutely have to.

That said I bought my setup with full timing control (dual sync and associated parts) about this time last year. This Feb Edelbrock dropped the price on the Pro-Flo to basically the same as what the Sniper with timing control costs. Had the Pro-Flo been that price when I was buying stuff that is what I'd have because just like you said port injection will always be better than TBI....

[A1971Blazer]

I bought a 72 K/5 350....with the Sniper on it from a friend of mine...it started and ran fine for a few months....then all of a sudden it acted up.

Would not start without feathering the gas pedal and would not stay running without doing so...as soon as it started doing that...it stopped and was fine again for a couple of weeks.

Now it's back to doing the same thing won't start without using the gas pedal, runs super rich when it starts, won't stay running until it warms up a little then barely idles on it's own at about 450 RPM.

It's been cold here and I haven't gotten much of a chance to troubleshoot it.... but since it's a stock motor....I'm considering changing to a factory GM TBI set-up until I get my new garage done...

Then a 5.7 LS1 swap may be in the works

[SunSoaked]

Save yourself the time and effort of trouble shooting it. Get rid of it. You will never have confidence in it. Been there-done that. I'm running a carb without any issues until I regroup and go LS.

[sweetk30]

there is a guy on another forum i am on who will be the rare one to have run all 3 on the same vehicle . he did fitech and sniper and now is mid install of edelbrock pro flo 4 .

i cant wait to see what the outcome of the edelbrock is .

and like sunsoaked said you wont trust the sniper after the problems start up . hell my problems started out of the box how do you think i feel on level of trust ? ? ?

[cadillac_al]

I wouldn't dare to take a road trip with any of those systems. People just don't appreciate simplicity and reliability anymore.

[richards72chevy]

Hopefully these companies will work out the flaws with their products.Seems like they should have had it dialed in before they introduced it to the market.When I first seen these systems I thought it was to good to be true.

[sweetk30]

Originally Posted by richards72chevy

Hopefully these companies will work out the flaws with their products.Seems like they should have had it dialed in before they introduced it to the market.When I first seen these systems I thought it was to good to be true.

yep side of the sniper box is a bit of bad advertising and miss leading of what it does .

#2 and #10 are my 2 BIG points of argument with miss leading advertising . yes it will tune ....... but not near as good as if you help it with a computer and at that point you need to be a tuning wizard to understand the info .

i am waiting for my guy who is helping me with my sniper to get back from the holidays to help get me finished out .

and why would both holley and fitech sell you a item for street and daily driver use with a 1:1 all 4 barrels open the same time ? ? ?

edelbrock pro flo 4 has progressive linkage on it from the start already . there is a member on another site i am on who is installing a edelbrock pro flo 4 system now . has has tried both the sniper and fitech and didnt care for them with there limits . few other guys have the pro flo 4 edelbrock and so far love it way better of ther sniper or fitech they have removed and sold .

['63GENIII]

It would be interesting to see just how many units out of all the ones sold are having issues. If its really that widespread, either a recall should be issued or a class action lawsuit needs to be filed. If its not a huge widespread issue, they should just take care of the guys that are having the issues right? I hate the idea of litigation but I despise the idea of throwing away hard earned scratch on an expensive paperweight even more. To be left twisting in the wind by a company as reputable as Holley blows my mind.

When I built the L29, I had considered switching to FITech, or Edelbrock but never Holley. In the end I went with the GM FI that came on the engine for money reasons. Reading this makes me feel better that I did, although it does sound like Edelbrock got it right. I couldn't have afforded that one either.

Hope they make it right for you guys. Thank you for sharing the details and for those doing their research on a retrofit, Id consider yourselves warned.

[sweetk30]

guy on holley f-b page for snipers tech posted his fitech in the trash can and bolting on a sniper . . . .

if you had the time and i posted up the 100% story here it would blow your mind on how i have been treated from day one on holley tech from there chat forum to on the phone waiting and waiting and try this and call back and wait and wait and well prove its bad to us first before we just take your word for it . then the only way i have found to get ahold of them is the tech line . ALL OTHER phone options lead to voicemail and they do NOT return messages . there is no email i have found other than the tech guy i was dealing with and i sent him my long letter of complaint to forward to who ever needs to see it and said i require a call or email back on this and i have still NEVER gotten anything back on this to this day .

i will never buy another holley product / flowmaster product / and if i can help it MSD product / hays clutch / here is the full list of there company collection i will not buy from for my self any more if at all possible https://www.holley.com/brands/

[Tiger Joe]

I’ll add my .02 here.

I have a sniper installed on a BBC. At first it was great. Then the computer took a **** in it and Holley had it for 9 weeks before finally sending me a new one. Honestly I’m not that impressed. I have 2 issues and I’ve been told my issues are areas where the unit doesn’t learn therefore I have to manually correct.

I’ve only driven the truck maybe 100 miles with the new one but some days I wonder if I shoulda just bought a carb.

As for Holley tech- I agree the forum is awful. Got treated like an idiot for expecting my sniper to self learn. I had 50/50 with the phone. Got the run around a few times but I did get a couple outstanding guys twice.

[sweetk30]

just tested my cts as its way off actual . here is the results .

holley sensor 58* cts signal showing .= 26* off range

aftermarket used from my old tbi truck 48* = 16* off range

and mystery brand sensor from the doner body original engine tbi intake 50* = 18* off range

test was truck outside over 12hr no start and 34* air and truck body temp and engine 32* temp . IR temp gun used to verify temps and the weather channel .com for double verify temp of air at the same .

[sweetk30]

I had time the other day to drain the engine coolant down and remove the sensor to test the resistance of the Holley supplied unit.

Ohms readings on 20K Ohm scale on digital Fluke meter and all three sensors in the shop and up to shop temp of 70°F tested on the tip of all three to verify the same temp with the IR temp gun.
Holley = 2.37 Ohm on 20K scale
TBI used #1 = 3.46 Ohm on 20K scale
TBI used #2 = 3.44 Ohm on 20K scale
Sorry, I always have a hard time moving the decimal point around in my head, was never good at it.

I did find this chart for the standard motor products tx3 to help test the sensor for resistance value to temperature in F & C -scale
Temperature Resistance
50° F (10° C) 5670 Ω
68° F (20° C) 3520 Ω
86° F (30° C) 2238 Ω
104° F (40° C) 1459 Ω
122° F (50° C) 973 Ω
140° F (60° C) 667 Ω
158° F (70° C) 467 Ω
176° F (80° C) 332 Ω
194° F (90° C) 241 Ω
212° F (100° C) 177 Ω

---------------------------------------------

and today i talked with summit on this and here is the info .

here is the short pinpoints :
holley tech in the end of dec/all of jan is way behind every year . they just get so backed up ts crazy even summit get put on the wait list . so he said they will get back to me at some point ......
of the 3 brands holley sniper / fitech / edelbrock he gets 2-3 of each to 1 of edelbrock for problem help and warranty . and of them he said 90-95% is customer ordered the wrong stuff .
he did say the problems i am having with the sniper are all real popular points he hears a lot and also heavy out of the first batch or 2 that were sold and mine being ordered may/2017 kind of falls in to that area .
he did say at this point i need to deal with holley and if they say warranty is or replace it swap out they will stand behind it and take care of me .

so in short it looks like its a waiting game now . . . but there might be light at the end of the tunnel yet .

[sweetk30]

just going to leave this here for now .........

[SunSoaked]

[sweetk30]

Originally Posted by SunSoaked

look who is talking

['63GENIII]

So..... what's the scoop? Are they gonna warranty it? You gonna throw a carb on it?

[sweetk30]

not sure yet . will keep you posted on my story as it unfolds .

[sweetk30]

lets just say today was the last time the holley sniper will ever be in my shop . and it was 1 hr to long in my opinion today from ups drop off to me dropping it off at ups to go to its new home .

lets just say holley made it right for the most part . i wont get my time / gas / mental health back but i got a deal i was happy with .

pic is of its last min in my shop before boxed and tapped shut and tag put on it .

just so you can get a idea on my felling's and he!! i have been threw here is a basic list .

1 - handheld problems on first fire up
2 - 2nd handheld d.o.a out of the box
3 - fuel mileage 6.25 mpg average so far around 500 miles and 30-45%tps at most 90% of the driving and only a few highway trips of 5-10 miles the rest is in town or country roads of 45-50 mph
4 - tech support help on there forum they don't baby sit or care about = crap treat you like a 2 year old right from the start by site admin and senior members
5 - have to use sniper program on a REAL computer to tune it 100% = NOT SELF TUNING like it shows on the box and also you DO need a computer unlike what the box shows
6 - wait time for parts replacement is kind of long and i had to ask my 3rd handheld be shipped faster they never offered it to me and the tech guy still had to get this o.k'ed from a higher up
7 - wait time on the phone can be long . . . but then if you wish to talk with the same tech person they do NOT have assigned ext#'s to use . you MUST wait yet again on hold to speak to them so this can more than double your wait
8 - emails seem better but almost every one i have got is at the end of the next day returned
9 - they love to avoid specific questions and or never acknowledge them at all
10 - they love to blame it on rfi interference for the routing of the units wires and such . this to me = crap product quality knowing it will be next to this kind of stuff and the wiring is super stiff
11 - the tech suport info can be a huge hit or miss . i asked the same question 2 x to 2 different people and got 2 totaly different answers that were 2 ends of the spectrum apart
12 - throttle arm is to short for correct throw ratio almost all people buy or build an extension arm for this and it also makes for a super stiff pedal
13 - self tuning is deactivated from all i have read on there forum and f-b page if you turn on progressive linkage to make it more like a carb with the quick fuel linkage part installed for the 2ndary link
14 - my idle air control is now acting up with random high idleand showing 0% iac and 0% tps positions and even does this driving on the road good thing i have 1ton brakes and hydroboost or i might not be able to hold it still
15 - coolant temp sensor is a known holley problem they wont fix or replace everyone just takes and buys there own replacement unit for 8-20 bucks and then drop over a gal of coolant out / swap it / refill and wasted time 20* off to the hot when cold and 16*-18* off to the cold when hot and they say this is NOT a problem . . how does it mix the air/fuel ratio's correctly when cold and also when hot this could be a problem with low temp t-stats installed as it switches at around 160* range unless you set your own switch over temp .
16 - intake air temp is in the unit and gets massive heat soak my truck has true cold air feed with the stock closed air filter system and duct to the front of the grill the other day it was 25*F out side and it took over 3 miles of city driving to go from 122*F heat soak down to high 50* showing as the temp . again how is this to mix the ratio correctly if your not up to temp and running off the o2 sensor
17 - found lots and lots of ecm replacment posts on youtube / forums / f-b page of holleys sniper
18 - heard of lots of people returning there units and getting refunds with no problem unlike me .
19 - started seeing the used take off market jump up on ebay for these unit now with few 100 miles or few months run time

i am sure there is more but this should be a good quick skim / low down of my problems with product / support / and others with the same i have found .

[sweetk30]

so here is the rest of the story ............

they wanted me to keep testing things for the problems i was having with high idle at random times / pour fuel mileage @ 6.25mpg in 500 miles / didn't even once offer to fix the known defective included temp sensor problem . i told them at 500 miles i am DONE testing this / that & wasting my time / gas and raising my stress level as some of you found out on here was very high and for this i am SORRY !

i told them in a few emails i wish to return this item as its defective and not working as advertised online / parts store ad's / info on there box even is all a lie / miss leading . i was told we will keep helping you test it and send replacement parts as needed to me even tho your out of warranty ( more on this later ) . i said no thanks i am done just give me my money back or i will file a claim with my state's attorney generals office for faults sales ad and defective products . they still would not budge on this and never gave me a straight answer on a lot of stuff i asked about or requested be fixed .

then 1 day i was killing time as i eat my lunch and went on you tube and typed in " holley sniper problem " and the first page up of results was 8 links to video's of my exact problems or worse and all these people commented they were taken right care of and fixed up super fast by holley . 1 guy had a d.o.a whole unit out of the box on install . another guy had 200 miles and doa had to remove it and each time it was a ecu unit basically . so i fired off yet another email to them with these 8 video links to you tube and said all these video's were posted from the 90-100 day window of my units date of purchase and IF we assume they all put there units in to service within the 90 day warranty bubble then my unit could be from the same batch of defective units . so send me a pre paid shipping tag and i will pull this unit off and send 100% of it back for you to test at your time in your shop .

so they finally agreed to this email so i took the unit off and sent all of it in wish a list of problems / defects / tests to be done . i even included ALL my saved gcf tune files and ALL data logs from day 1 to let them look the whole unit over from every angle . well they called me after they tested the unit and said they could find NOTHING wrong with the sniper and its parts . so we can include a free i.a.c motor unit so if it acts up yet again i can swap that out my self at my expense and time . ( why wouldn't they just do it ? ? ? ) ......

so he the tech guy asked me what i wanted to do ? i told him to be honest i don't ever wish to see the unit again in my life time and give me a refund . he said he is not able to do this as he is not a supervisor . i said well i have asked to speak with one in emails or phone calls and been steered away from this in the past so if one is willing to talk fine i will talk . so they sent the unit back to me .

45min later my phone rings and the supervisor from holley tech is on the line ..... this is were it gets good people !

in talking with him he blamed my truck for the crap fuel mileage as i have 4.10 gears / 33" tires and th400 NON overdrive trans and its going to suck fuel its what it is . to this i replied with my facts of well the truck is built basically the same as the 1 i replaced it with and it has the axles / trans and few other parts from the old truck in it . i also went from a 35" FAT 12.50 tire to a 33" skinny tire for less rolling resistance / drag . i even told him the old truck also was factory gm efi and the motor was setup from gm for efi . the old truck wasn't even working 100% correct on the efi and would give me 11-12-13 mpg range doing the same driving and work load . he then said well i have seen 2 identical cars and 1 gets better mileage than the other and he couldn't explain why that was so . . . and i had to deal with it .

so i told him NO i do not have to deal with it cause when the unit shows up i am selling it to some unlucky person and taking a huge loss on it cause i am to honest to lie about it and get full price for it . so i guess i am screwed and will just have to deal with it . he then said well what do you want then ? i said the same thing i have asked for from the start a REFUND or CREDIT at summit racing ! . . . pause for around 5 sec and he said fine write this down and when you receive it send it to summit and include this note and they will get there credit from us to pass on to you . i said thank you and why couldn't this have happened long ago and we both hung up .

this unit / company has caused me so much stress for such a easy fix they didn't want to do from the start its not funny at all . i am not even a drop of water in a 55 gal drum at the end of the days sales why could they not give me my money back to start ? ? ?

and the 90 day warranty is from date of purchase NOT install like a lot of good parts places are doing . he also couldn't give me a answer on how the warranty was set up for a lot of guys to be screwed . cause who can build a vehicle by them self in there spare time from scratch and be done in 90 days ? and you have to have the parts to build around to make the vehicle complete the first time . seems real shady to me . yes they have offered a lot of after warranty help to a lot of people but if you do not stand up and fight for whats right lots of people will and have just tossed in the towel and lost a lot of hard earned money on a pad product and crap customer service .

so i hope this helps someone make a informed choice before thinking of purchasing a product and heck maybe i just got a bad unit who knows the truth i don't know ? ? ? CASE CLOSED

[sweetk30]

oh ya and right now i have a used edelbrock carb / electric fuel pump and am sucking fuel up my return line to make the truck run to plow the driveway and other stuff . . . . . and getting way better fuel mileage

[YoungPup1977]

My shop installed 4 of the sniper units in 2018. All worked as Holley intended them to work. No Tech calls were needed. All of the so called small issues were addressed in my shop. After 4 installs I would not hesitate to buy and install another unit.

Some times you get a lemon, I would have a problem if I installed 4 units and none of them worked.

How long of a time lapse did you have between buying the unit and installing it....its a wonder they stood behind it if it took you months to install it. Its like shooting primer on a new blazer door, you go to install it and it all out of whack, try returning it....Not.

[sweetk30]

you of all people youngpup1977 by the sounds of it should know then that sometimes builds from scratch take time and you need the parts to build it also . so your right i was way out of warranty and they did help me but NOT the way they were helping everyone else i found in forums and or youtube .

i have time/date stamped pics of the first fire up and even posted in my build thread on the forum i have it posted and some here .

if i spent the time to copy/paste or type out the long story from my other forum i am on about my treatment from them it would blow your mind . . .

and they kept wanting me to test this / tweek that / try this all at my expense and fuel i finally said no more at 500 miles . they said here is a ship tag send it in for testing . i pulled the whole thing off 100% and sent all if it back wiring included and all my gcf files and data log's from day 1 . i even wrote out a note with problems and concerns with known defective parts .

they never addressed half my problems on the list or said 1 thing about them . and the service rep in the tech dept blamed my truck for my 6.25mpg fuel mileage problem . . . kind of funny as now with a well used ? condition edelbrock 750 carb on it i am pulling min 2x better fuel mileage over the sniper .

its over and done i got my end result of a return and a deal was made to make me happy for the most part . its just sad as a huge massive company like this in our area of parts and building will treat you like this from the start . and even when you point out known defective parts included in the kit they will NOT give you a GOOD replacement part like the coolant temp sensors everyone has problems with and they all just suck it up and buy a new one them self and screw them self in the end for letting holley give them crap and not fix it . holley even said my iac might be bad on there test bench but they wont change it there but would include a new one for me to install . . . . what the heck man ? ? its in your hands and on your test bench why not just change it .

it is what it is . like i have said its prob not all bad or all sniper units bad but mine was crap from the first fire up day 1 problem after problem after problem . had lots of guys look at my data logs who have installed them in the dozen's of units and all said they don't see why i have these problems .

[SunSoaked]

Same story with my sniper. Except after reading the sniper forum I saw the writing on the wall and cut my losses fast. I'll never buy another Holley product again.