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Old 06-17-2019, 12:06 PM   #1
Jeepwm69
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Faulty water pump, bad installation, or ?

Dad's 95 GMC had a weepy water pump.

We have a family friend who runs a muffler shop, mainly does exhausts and oil changes, but Dad took the truck to him for a new water pump.

When he got home with it we were inspecting it and noticed the fan wasn't running true.

He called the shop and the guy said it might have been a faulty water pump, and would call NAPA about it to see what they said (guy got the pump from NAPA, which is two doors down from his shop in our tiny town).

Dad was supposed to take it up there and let the mechanic and the NAPA guys look it. Hadn't gotten around to it yet and Saturday the fan came off, hit the radiator and busted a hole in it, and this is what I found.

Luckily there's a good radiator shop here, and the damage to the rad was minimal. This will also give me an opportunity to add the transmission cooler I bought months ago but hadn't gotten around to installing.

This does appear to me to have been a faulty water pump. Is the pulley mounting flange just pressed onto the shaft on the water pump?
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:41 PM   #2
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Re: Faulty water pump, bad installation, or ?

Yes. The hub with 4 threaded holes is pressed onto the shaft. You got a bad pump.
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Old 06-18-2019, 01:22 PM   #3
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Re: Faulty water pump, bad installation, or ?

Got the radiator off and dropped off at the rad shop this morning, and got the water pump off so Dad can take it back to Napa and hopefully get a replacement.

Not sure what brand pump this was, or if it was reman or new.

What brand do yall recommend for water pumps? I'd prefer not to have to do all of this again anytime soon.

Need to figure out how to run the transmission cooler while I have everything apart. Will start a separate thread on that one so the title will reflect my questions.
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Old 06-18-2019, 01:59 PM   #4
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bad pump should be able to get a labor claim

I would only use the original GM cast iron one when I have to replace it. This is no lie, I have the original pump on my engine with 266000 miles on it. Yeah it's expensive at close to $200 but who cares if you aren't replacing it every 4 years. And you can take those cheap auto parts lifetime warranty and shove em. Who cares if you keep getting a free one when you have to replace them so often. Not me.

Also, your shop should be able to put a labor claim into Napa for you to at least pay for some of the other repairs.
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Old 06-18-2019, 03:19 PM   #5
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Re: Faulty water pump, bad installation, or ?

Well I've taken the stuff off now. Guy who installed the pump is a family friend who has a shop, and we know the owners of the local NAPA well too, so I'm sure they'll make it right.

Not a hard job. Normally I would have done it but have a baby on the way and am trying to get the nursery finished for the wife so Dad took it to the shop.

When you say "original cast iron GM" is that a Delco or is there a GM part number?
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:51 AM   #6
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Re: Faulty water pump, bad installation, or ?

Delco, GM and Delphi are the same part although the part numbers are somewhat different.

It's a moot point now since the shop is taking care of it. They aren't going to buy you one. Just cheap auto parts store parts.
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:44 AM   #7
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Re: Faulty water pump, bad installation, or ?

A lot of Napa brand pumps are reboxed gates units. Gates makes a good water pump.

Speedy, I’ve replaced many factory gm pumps well under 100,000 miles, I think the lowest I did was 52,000. You’ve gotten lucky with yours, but that doesn’t mean everyone else will
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Old 06-20-2019, 03:32 PM   #8
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Re: Faulty water pump, bad installation, or ?

Jury is still out on getting a replacement from NAPA. The long time (50+ years) owner sold it a couple of years ago and even though he is no longer the owner he still works some for the new owner and is friends with Dad. We might go for the "ask for a refund" route and get a new Delco pump.

Picking up the radiator on my way home from work this afternoon, and will try to get it and the transmission cooler installed tomorrow morning before work.

Dad is supposed to be handling the water pump today, one way or the other.
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:16 PM   #9
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Re: Faulty water pump, bad installation, or ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 95 S_Trucker View Post
A lot of Napa brand pumps are reboxed gates units. Gates makes a good water pump.
Didn't see where they make one for this engine. But let's assume they made this one. So the hub fell off. Now how are we going to trust the next one?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 95 S_Trucker View Post
Speedy, I’ve replaced many factory gm pumps well under 100,000 miles, I think the lowest I did was 52,000. You’ve gotten lucky with yours, but that doesn’t mean everyone else will
So what? Don't recommend one? What else would I recommend? Cheap auto store parts? That's nice you replaced one at 52K. Anything man made can have a problem at any time. That's one out of how many million? Got a recommendation for a replacement part? Funny I didn't see you give one. The lowest was 52K? Guess what the mileage would be on a cheap auto parts store pump would be? I will bet on average a lot lower than that. Seen any auto parts store water pumps using cast iron? Go ahead we'll wait.
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Old 06-20-2019, 07:09 PM   #10
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Re: Faulty water pump, bad installation, or ?

I said gates makes a good pump.

You said yours lasted 266000. That’s great for you, but not everyone’s is going to last that long. A solution for a leaking/damaged pump is to replace it, not brag about someone else’s lasting xxx thousand miles.

Btw, an AC Delco pump is no where near $200. How about $27? The op has a 95. It takes a different water pump than your 99 does. If you would go out and look at your 99, you will see that your fan clutch threads on, where on a 95 it bolts on.

AC delco:
https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-252-7...gateway&sr=8-1

Gates:
https://www.amazon.com/Gates-43114-W...hevrolet+C1500
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:01 PM   #11
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Re: Faulty water pump, bad installation, or ?

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Originally Posted by speedygonzales View Post
Delco, GM and Delphi are the same part although the part numbers are somewhat different.
No! They are not.
AC Delco and Delphi have not been owned by GM for over a decade.
So far Delphi is still decent quality parts. AC Delco has taken their manufacturing to China and so has GM on a lot of parts for older rigs. GM has a vested interest in making sure your three decade old vehicle ceases to be reliable as transportation.
I've passed on GM seals and bearings for my NV263HD at the dealership with "MADE IN CHINA" on the label. I'll buy decent quality SKF bearings made in Germany, Poland, and the Baltic states and seals made in Taiwan before buying ChiCom parts from Delco for slightly more or ChiCom parts from GM for three times the price.
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:17 PM   #12
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Re: Faulty water pump, bad installation, or ?

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Originally Posted by speedygonzales View Post
Didn't see where they make one for this engine. But let's assume they made this one. So the hub fell off. Now how are we going to trust the next one?
Just because you haven't had a oem water pump fail doesn't mean they don't. Everything fails. One bad experience shouldn't make you question the entire batch.
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Old 06-24-2019, 02:05 PM   #13
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Re: Faulty water pump, bad installation, or ?

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Originally Posted by hatzie View Post
No! They are not.
AC Delco and Delphi have not been owned by GM for over a decade.
So far Delphi is still decent quality parts. AC Delco has taken their manufacturing to China and so has GM on a lot of parts for older rigs. GM has a vested interest in making sure your three decade old vehicle ceases to be reliable as transportation.
I've passed on GM seals and bearings for my NV263HD at the dealership with "MADE IN CHINA" on the label. I'll buy decent quality SKF bearings made in Germany, Poland, and the Baltic states and seals made in Taiwan before buying ChiCom parts from Delco for slightly more or ChiCom parts from GM for three times the price.
I've noticed a lot of Honda OEM seals for my ATV's are now made in China. Sad but true. We have a Japanese friend who ran Sanyo back before the Panasonic buy out. He told us that the Chinese were very capable and could make very high quality products, but that you have to closely monitor anything you had the Chinese produce. Point being, they CAN make good stuff. You just have to watch them like a hawk and make sure they're doing it right.

So, at this point Dad is still doing "research"....he's notorious for taking forever to make a decision on something while he does "research".

I did tell him I want a pump so I can get the truck running and get it out of my driveway, so hopefully he won't be too long.

Local NAPA had a Gates 43114 pump in stock. It had 77-5049 cast into the neck where the lower rad hose goes on.

The pump that failed did NOT have that number cast, so not sure if it was a reman pump or what. I haven't taken the pulley off the mounting flange yet to check for markings as he wanted to take it to the shop for the owner to see it as it came off.

The Gates pump at NAPA had "G 050 19" on the top line, 43114 as the second line, and 77-5049 as a third line etched onto the mounting flange, along with the Gates logo etched into the bottom of the mounting flange.

So, anyone know where the Gates and ACDelco pumps that were linked above are made? I didn't see that info on the Amazon pages. Would prefer one made in the US, but have a feeling that's probably no longer an option.
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Old 06-28-2019, 12:12 PM   #14
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Re: Faulty water pump, bad installation, or ?

The faulty pump was a Gates.

Dad picked up a replacement pump yesterday from NAPA (also a Gates).

Both the prior owner of the NAPA (close friend of Dad) and the counter guys currently working at NAPA said they'd never seen a new water pump do that.

So now I'm waiting for Dad to get the pump painted so I can put it on and get everything back together.

The mechanic offered to cover everything, Dad told him not to worry about it. Faulty pump wasn't really his fault, and he and Dad are friends so we'll get it fixed in the driveway.

Thanks for the input. Hopefully the replacement pump will last a little longer.
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