Wandering steering???🤔🤨

[Robznob11]

Ok guys searching for answers. I have new everything. Porterbuilt 1" forward ,1" narrowed arms. Brand new red head box, every part of the steering is new except drag link. I have a Cherokee steering shaft, no rag joint just u joints. The problem is ....it goes fairly straight down the road but seems to wander some. I have 5 1/2* caster -1.5 camber at ride hight and 1/8 toe in. I have air ride on 4 corners. So the question? Is it typical old design just have to live with it? Could there be play in the van tilt? Will the porterbuilt front sway bar help? Could it be because I run 25 psi in the rear drag radials. I even feel it at low speed. I do have a bump steer kit I want to install. I measured today and as the suspension goes down it toes in. When I went 2" above ride hight it toed out almost 1/2". I don't feel like I'm getting that much suspension travel just putting around tho. What do y'alls trick drive like...any have tight steering?

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by Robznob11

Ok guys searching for answers. I have new everything. Porterbuilt 1" forward ,1" narrowed arms. Brand new red head box, every part of the steering is new except drag link. I have a Cherokee steering shaft, no rag joint just u joints. The problem is ....it goes fairly straight down the road but seems to wander some. I have 5 1/2* caster -1.5 camber at ride hight and 1/8 toe in. I have air ride on 4 corners. So the question? Is it typical old design just have to live with it? Could there be play in the van tilt? Will the porterbuilt front sway bar help? Could it be because I run 25 psi in the rear drag radials. I even feel it at low speed. I do have a bump steer kit I want to install. I measured today and as the suspension goes down it toes in. When I went 2" above ride hight it toed out almost 1/2". I don't feel like I'm getting that much suspension travel just putting around tho. What do y'alls trick drive like...any have tight steering?

I don't really have a clue with all of the aftermarket parts you have installed but I am going to throw something out here..... Are you sure you don't have your centerlink installed backwards? I know that can cause the problem you are seeing. The nuts on the tie rod ends should be facing forward.

LockDoc

[clay68c10]

You may try running some more tire pressure.
How wide are all 4? That can make them wander if the tires are wide, it will tend to track along with any changes in the road surface. Kind of like bias plys.

[davischevy]

The two things that come to mind are,

steering box centered,

worn tires. The worn tires seems like a stretch, but I have had two instances where I had tires that were run out of alignment, and after I did front end work, I had a "wandering" car.

[Robznob11]

Yes sir already checked that. Looks like my bump steer kit will clear so that's the next step!

[Boog]

Do the front tires squeal a little bit going around corners? That plus wander and tight steering sure sounds like a toe out condition.

[Robznob11]

Originally Posted by clay68c10

You may try running some more tire pressure.
How wide are all 4? That can make them wander if the tires are wide, it will tend to track along with any changes in the road surface. Kind of like bias plys.

Fronts are about 10" wide and rears are 15" wide.

[Robznob11]

Originally Posted by Boog

Do the front tires squeal a little bit going around corners? That plus wander and tight steering sure sounds like a toe out condition.

Steering is not tight. It steers fine. It all does well just seems like I have to chase it around more than I should. But I'm also used to driving the newer cars and I know it will never feel like that. I did learn that every time I make a toe adjustment I need to turn the wheels lock to lock before re checking to get an accurate measurement. I really think that the forward arms and bags have caused the tie rod mount point on the spindle to turn up and back. So I'm hoping by putting the bump steer kit on it will fix it. I believe that is why the toe goes out 1/2 " with 2" of rebound travel which I think confirms a bump steer condition. I know no suspension is perfect but 1/2" in that little of travel seems excessive. Also the fact that it goes in nearly the same in compression makes me even more confident in that hypothesis. I talked with porterbuilt and they said they tilted the ball joint to correct the bump steer, but I just don't know that I agree. As far as the steering being centered I don't know how you could get that off? There is a flat on the pitman arm it only goes one way. I can tell you that I measured the tie rod/adjuster assembly's and mad sure they are both the same length side to side...

[Boog]

Oh ok. You mentioned tight steering above.
'What do y'alls trick drive like...any have tight steering?'

I once drove an 88 Chevy truck with 10" wheels and 295/15 tires all around. That one was a monster to drive. It wandered real bad. Even with power steering it was bad just going across town. I turned that one down because it was so bad. The wider front wheels will tend to follow the low spots worn into the pavement a little more so than narrower ones.
You could borrow a couple of narrower wheels and tires to test on your front end to eliminate that possibility.

[Robznob11]

Originally Posted by Boog

Oh ok. You mentioned tight steering above.
'What do y'alls trick drive like...any have tight steering?'

I once drove an 88 Chevy truck with 10" wheels and 295/15 tires all around. That one was a monster to drive. It wandered real bad. Even with power steering it was bad just going across town. I turned that one down because it was so bad. The wider front wheels will tend to follow the low spots worn into the pavement a little more so than narrower ones.
You could borrow a couple of narrower wheels and tires to test on your front end to eliminate that possibility.

Lol yea my grammar is not the best....I was asking If anyone had a truck that is nice and tight or do they all have a little play...? My fronts are 255/60/15's on a 8" wide rim.

[davischevy]

I've run 275/60/15's on a lot of these trucks. They drive great when everything is right and a sway bar up front.

I had the wandering thing on my 55 Chevy car. I changed everything, control arms, steering box, spindles and idler.

It turned out the tires were worn on the inside from a previous poor alignment. When I put new tires on it the problem was gone.

I had a 72 truck that had tires worn on the inside. I had an alignment and tire rotation, and the truck pulled bad to one side. The tech said it was my tires, I didn't believe him. He switched the tires and the truck pulled the other way.

None of this may answer your question, but the problem will seem obvious when you find it.

[Robznob11]

I wish it was that easy I have 92 miles on the truck since a full build. Pretty much brand new everything including tires.

[clay68c10]

If you can swap some narrower rears on there it would be worth it just for trouble shooting. A 15” wide tire sure seems like it will follow road imperfections.
Got any buddies that will hook you up for a day?

[davepl]

For what it's worth, I just reinstalled my steering box that I got back from Redhead (had it rebuilt there) and there is ZERO play in a new steering box.

I don't mean just a little dead zone, I mean none other than the flexibility of the rag joint itself.

So no, they don't have any play when they're new. I'm not saying the driving experience has zero play, it might pick up slop elsewhere, I just mean the box input to output itself.

[Robznob11]

Originally Posted by davepl

For what it's worth, I just reinstalled my steering box that I got back from Redhead (had it rebuilt there) and there is ZERO play in a new steering box.

I don't mean just a little dead zone, I mean none other than the flexibility of the rag joint itself.

So no, they don't have any play when they're new. I'm not saying the driving experience has zero play, it might pick up slop elsewhere, I just mean the box input to output itself.

I agree with you I can tell it tightened up some with the new box. I'm sure its elsewhere. Hopefully this week I can install the bumpsteer kit and see if it changes. I may just need to bite the bullet and get the sway bar too.

[davepl]

No front sway bar? I think you definitely want that, I've never even driven a vehicle outside the dragstrip without a sway bar!

More caster will help prevent wandering, can you dial any more caster into it (learning the top back, I always forget if that's negative or positive).

As a wild long shot if you get your link bar on backwards, and it WILL fit backwards, the truck will be darty and impossible to align properly but it doesn't sound like you've got it that bad.

One post said you can get more caster by adding a shim on the END of the stud, which I've never tried, but it makes some sense.

[dennislbrooks]

You guys solved my wandering on my k10. This is also maybe a long shot but make sure all joint nuts are to required torque. I had all new or rebuilt parts also .My center link required further tightening. Check drag link also. Agree with wide tires following road grooves. My C4 and C6 were like that.

[davischevy]

He already has 5.5 degrees caster. That seems like enough. I think I would try the other stuff first.

When adjusting caster, if a shim is added to the rear stud, the same thickness shim needs to be removed from the front. If you only change shims on one stud you will affect camber also.

[Robznob11]

Originally Posted by davischevy

He already has 5.5 degrees caster. That seems like enough. I think I would try the other stuff first.

When adjusting caster, if a shim is added to the rear stud, the same thickness shim needs to be removed from the front. If you only change shims on one stud you will affect camber also.

I think this is a little backwards�� I was always under the impression to set caster first then camber. Because moving any shims changes camber but if your caster is set then you can adjust camber two shims at a time and not affect the caster. Either way. That part is dialed in fairly good I would like to have less neg camber but I can only go so far.. that's the bad part about air ride.

[demian5]

How much caster is in it? If you are driving newer cars, they have much more caster and that helps the vehicle go down the road straight and solid.

I just put CPP upper and lower tubular arms on a 69 chevelle and asked for as much positive caster as they could get me. They got me +2 degrees where factory was I believe +0.1. Solid and straight as fast as you want to go...

[Robznob11]

I have 5.5* of caster. Running porterbuilt forward arms.

[Robznob11]

None of this may answer your question, but the problem will seem obvious when you find it.[/QUOTE]

Larry ,Larry, Larry........I want to scream and cuss....Just when you think you know your truck inside out. A dumb assumption....and a hard head not willing to double check bites you in the rear. So I drill the spindles install the bump steer kit and on the second side while putting it on I grab the inner and say hmmm that feels a little loose...hmmm it's a lot loose....well here goes the assumption part. When I got the truck years ago it was a drum brake set up. First thing I did was convert to disc. I ordered cpp custom adjusters and ran 68 outers as inners and 72 outers on the spindle side. Well the truck as set being built for years.... so when I see the inner loose I think dang I must have forgot to tighten it. Um no it's as tight as it will get. So I pull it off and say hummmmmm wonder if this 72 outer will fit that taper.... ummm duh.. .yep it does....some knuckle head had changed the drag link and was running it with the drums......so now the truck is tore down till I can order more custom adjusters and pick up 72 inners ......grrrrrrrr!

[davischevy]

I forgot to mention, on my 55, when I put the CPP steering box on it seemed to help for while and progressively began to wander again.

I put it on the lift and moved the steering wheel. The bolts had backed off that attached the box to the frame. How's that for obvious?

I put a Saginaw box on a 1940 Ford once. I didn't have the wheel centered when I welded the steering shaft. Now that was a ride. Carnival ride I mean.
It didn't wander. It would just take off whatever way it wanted, when it wanted.

[davischevy]

About ten years ago, after we finished this El Camino I drove it up to Canada. On the way back I was cruising around Minneapolis and when I crossed some railroad tracks I heard something tinkle on the pavement. I pulled over and picked up the control arm shims I could find. There was a tire shop a couple of blocks away but it was almost 5 PM on Friday. I couldn't talk them into doing an alignment so I asked for a handful of shims.

I backed the nuts off a half round and, by trial and error, installed shims until they would tighten at a half turn back. It has still not been realigned to this day with no uneven tire wear. Not recommended but it worked.

[demian5]

Originally Posted by Robznob11

I have 5.5* of caster. Running porterbuilt forward arms.

Is it +5.5 or -5.5
+5.5 is quite a bit and if anything would make it more stable but harder to turn at low speeds like in a parking lot)
-5.5 would have you all over the road.

Could you have the arms on backwards?
They do look like they could mount left or right.
Reason I ask is that I just did a complete CPP suspension on my buddy's Chevelle and the arms looked like they needed to be installed one way to get the right positive caster, but then they would have been on backwards.

Also, the change in toe would make a difference, but not a low speeds.

http://cartreatments.com/negative-an...ster-symptoms/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_angle